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Tcash
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Joined: July 20, 2011
Posts: 12844
Location: San Jose, California, USA
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 Posted: Mon Jun 02, 2014 5:37 pm Post subject: |
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| hippyvanman wrote: |
Installed it all per everyone's suggestions: Did you press it in with a tool or pound it in with a block of wood? Hard to tell from the picture but it looks crooked?
New or used seal and oring?
polished the hub. where the seal sits and where the oring sits?
Filed down the burrs. Small dab of Permatex where burrs were.
Greased the seal before installing hub. Inside diameter only?
Still leaking. Is it still leaking?
Ran it without the fan and nothing seems to be leaking It's not leaking? but who knows I wasn't driving it without the fan and there were no visible drips.
Now I installed the seal a little proud of where it was previously. So that it rode on a new spot on the hub. Hard to tell in pic. But it looks a little too proud. Stick a bolt in the fan and measure how much it sticks out the back. Now transfer that measurement to the hub. Push the hub and crank in. Measure from the front of the hub to the back and see how far the bolts will stick out. Make sure there is plenty of clearance.
Would it be possible to just smear some Permatex where the outside of the seal meets the case just for good measure replace seal and see if that makes a difference? Not recommended!
Thanks for being patient guys, I know I'm struggling. I know it sucks, just take your time and make sure the seal is not cocked. |
http://rlhudson.com/Shaft%20Seal%20Book/trouble-cause5.html
Good Luck
Tcash[/quote] |
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busdaddy
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Joined: February 12, 2004
Posts: 51145
Location: Surrey B.C. Canada, but thinking of Ukraine
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| Posted: Mon Jun 02, 2014 5:40 pm Post subject: |
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| hippyvanman wrote: |
| Still leaking. . |
From between the seal and the hub or between the seal and the case?
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hippyvanman
Samba Member
Joined: June 10, 2011
Posts: 126
Location: Raleigh, NC
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| Posted: Mon Jun 02, 2014 6:16 pm Post subject: |
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hippyvanman wrote:
Installed it all per everyone's suggestions: Did you press it in with a tool or pound it in with a block of wood? Hard to tell from the picture but it looks crooked?
New or used seal and oring?
polished the hub. where the seal sits and where the oring sits?
Filed down the burrs. Small dab of Permatex where burrs were.
Greased the seal before installing hub. Inside diameter only?
Still leaking. Is it still leaking?
Ran it without the fan and nothing seems to be leaking It's not leaking? but who knows I wasn't driving it without the fan and there were no visible drips.
Now I installed the seal a little proud of where it was previously. So that it rode on a new spot on the hub. Hard to tell in pic. But it looks a little too proud. Stick a bolt in the fan and measure how much it sticks out the back. Now transfer that measurement to the hub. Push the hub and crank in. Measure from the front of the hub to the back and see how far the bolts will stick out. Make sure there is plenty of clearance.
Would it be possible to just smear some Permatex where the outside of the seal meets the case just for good measure replace seal and see if that makes a difference? Not recommended!
Thanks for being patient guys, I know I'm struggling. I know it sucks, just take your time and make sure the seal is not cocked.
http://rlhudson.com/Shaft%20Seal%20Book/trouble-cause5.html
Good Luck
Tcash |
[/quote]
-I pressed it in with a PVC Cap and a correct sized bolt. I did my best to make sure it was straight and feeling with my fingers around the perimeter suggests that its even all the way around.
-New seal, Old O-ring, but i pulled the hub again and there is no oil past the o-ring so it seals fine.
-Polished both ends
-Greased the inside diameter of the seal where it meets the hub
-The fan is slinging oil everywhere like it was earlier, it is leaking (from where? who knows at this point), but running it without the fan didn't show any streaming out, but i would assume that if it was leaking from around the seal it wouldn't show very easily...? maybe I'm wrong...
-Pulling the fan back off showed that the bolts are not hitting the seal because I torqued them all the way earlier and there are no scores or marks on the seal itself.
| Quote: |
hippyvanman wrote:
Still leaking. .
From between the seal and the hub or between the seal and the case? |
I cannot tell because running it without the fan showed no oil leaking from the hub or seal but there is still oil getting into the fan shroud. It was suggested earlier that I do a compression test to see if excessive blowby is causing oil to leak from everywhere and I tried but could not get the Autozone loaner one to work right so I am now scouring craigslist for a good price.
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Tcash
Samba Member
Joined: July 20, 2011
Posts: 12844
Location: San Jose, California, USA
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| Posted: Mon Jun 02, 2014 9:18 pm Post subject: |
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I can't see mounting the fan would make any difference. Unless the fan hub was loose on the crank. Did you torque the hub bolt to 23 ft/lbs. If you grab the fan does it wiggle?
Maybe make sure the oil cooler is tight and not leaking.
Good luck |
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hippyvanman
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Joined: June 10, 2011
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Location: Raleigh, NC
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| Posted: Tue Jun 03, 2014 5:37 am Post subject: |
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It is certainly not loose. I don't have an adjustable wrench but I used the biggest one I had and torqued it as hard as I could. The fan is not loose, and there is no oil coming from the cooler.
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Wasted youth
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Joined: July 06, 2012
Posts: 5134
Location: California's Hot and Smoggy Central Valley
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| Posted: Tue Jun 03, 2014 6:30 am Post subject: |
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| Can it be determined the leak is from around the seal or O-ring...or is it really the case joint or a hairline crack near there? |
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Tcash
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Location: San Jose, California, USA
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hippyvanman
Samba Member
Joined: June 10, 2011
Posts: 126
Location: Raleigh, NC
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| Posted: Tue Jun 03, 2014 10:15 am Post subject: |
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Just picked up a kit from the store, would this still be effective even if the fan is throwing the oil everywhere??
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Wildthings
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Joined: March 13, 2005
Posts: 50348
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| Posted: Tue Jun 03, 2014 10:29 am Post subject: |
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| hippyvanman wrote: |
| Just picked up a kit from the store, would this still be effective even if the fan is throwing the oil everywhere?? |
I would run the engine without the fan so you can see what is going on behind it. |
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Nica
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Joined: November 11, 2005
Posts: 618
Location: Bogotá, Colombia
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| Posted: Tue Jun 03, 2014 11:41 am Post subject: |
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| I had this problem once on a 1974 bus and it turned out to be the oil pressure sender shooting out oil that would get sucked in by the fan while driving. |
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busdaddy
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Joined: February 12, 2004
Posts: 51145
Location: Surrey B.C. Canada, but thinking of Ukraine
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| Posted: Tue Jun 03, 2014 12:44 pm Post subject: |
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A leaking dipstick (the top part) can also make oil that gets sucked into the fan. If it only shows up after a drive you'll have to install the fan but now you can look on the front and the back side of it with the magic light.
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Please don't PM technical questions, ask your problem in public so everyone can play along. If you think it's too stupid post it here
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hippyvanman
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Joined: June 10, 2011
Posts: 126
Location: Raleigh, NC
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| Posted: Tue Jun 03, 2014 4:50 pm Post subject: |
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Took a closer look and played with the seal because I didn't like how it was sitting. Seemed a little bit cocked after I took the hub off again. Tried to get it straight but couldn't do it. So now I pulled it and in doing so it breaks so now to seal #3 tomorrow. Also don't want to pay 8 bucks for 1 socket to tighten or loosen the oil pressure sender that I'll use once so I'll get to that later down the road...
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hippyvanman
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Joined: June 10, 2011
Posts: 126
Location: Raleigh, NC
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| Posted: Wed Jun 04, 2014 5:53 pm Post subject: |
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This is driving me freaking insane. New seal installed, go to torque down the hub bolt and it snaps, so now i have half of a bolt stuck in the crank that i have no means of removing and I can't find anything online about the size of the bolt or where I can even buy one. Any input??
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Tcash
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Location: San Jose, California, USA
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hippyvanman
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Joined: June 10, 2011
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Location: Raleigh, NC
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| Posted: Thu Jun 05, 2014 9:26 pm Post subject: |
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thanks a ton.
Progress!!!!
Picked up a bolt from Lowe's and got it all put back together.
Hopped in to take it around the neighborhood like I've done the past 4 times and thought "Hey, let me eliminate the dipstick hat seal from the list because people have been suggesting that." So i hopped out and quickly duct taped the stick to the tube so as to seal it.
Well we have found our problem!!
But the thing is, The compartment may have been clean after driving it around, but when i shut it off there was white smoke coming from under the filler tube and some oil had been escaping down the filler neck from under the funnel. It seems like there is a ton of crank pressure or something. I am awaiting delivery on a compression tester kit to test the rings for blowby, but could it also be a clogged oil breather??
Thanks a lot for all of your help!
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Tcash
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Joined: July 20, 2011
Posts: 12844
Location: San Jose, California, USA
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| Posted: Thu Jun 05, 2014 10:06 pm Post subject: |
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| busdaddy wrote: |
| A leaking dipstick (the top part) can also make oil that gets sucked into the fan. If it only shows up after a drive you'll have to install the fan but now you can look on the front and the back side of it with the magic light. |
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hippyvanman
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Joined: June 10, 2011
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Location: Raleigh, NC
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| Posted: Sat Jun 07, 2014 12:39 pm Post subject: |
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Good News because I know the problem. Bad news because it's not good. Tested the compression on all the cylinders and I was getting straight 130s until I hit #2 which read 105. This doesn't seem catostrophically terrible, but Is this low enough to cause a significant amount of blowby and therefore smoke from the filler tube?
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udidwht
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Joined: March 06, 2005
Posts: 3779
Location: Seattle, WA./ HB, Ca./ Shizuoka, Japan
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| Posted: Sat Jun 07, 2014 9:40 pm Post subject: |
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| hippyvanman wrote: |
| Good News because I know the problem. Bad news because it's not good. Tested the compression on all the cylinders and I was getting straight 130s until I hit #2 which read 105. This doesn't seem catostrophically terrible, but Is this low enough to cause a significant amount of blowby and therefore smoke from the filler tube? |
I'd test it again but squirt a bit of oil prior down the spark plug hole. Generally when there is a 30lb difference between one cylinder vs another it's time to start thinking...rebuild time.
It could just be a build up of carbon throwing the reading low.
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hippyvanman
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Joined: June 10, 2011
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Location: Raleigh, NC
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| Posted: Sun Jun 08, 2014 8:50 am Post subject: |
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I've heard of that test before. I will test it out. It was also recommended to me by a fellow VW nut friend of mine to play with the valve clearance on that cylinder because the rocker arms or stems or pushrods might be worn. I will report back soon.
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busdaddy
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Joined: February 12, 2004
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Location: Surrey B.C. Canada, but thinking of Ukraine
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| Posted: Sun Jun 08, 2014 8:52 am Post subject: |
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| udidwht wrote: |
It could just be a build up of carbon throwing the reading low. |
Indeed, don't panic yet. The next step is to find out where the compression is going, that's best done with a bleed down tester or even an adaptor to put compressed air into the spark plug hole. With the engine at firing TDC for that cylinder (in gear, brake on) give it a constant 50-80 LBS and listen to the exhaust, intake and oil filler.
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