Fog Lights- Who is happy with theirs, looking for the best!

[madspaniard]

This set up looks practical for fog lighting but it would not last an afternoon of driving and parking in my bumpers.

Also interesting to see how the majority of beam of light from those fog lights seems to be aimed almost straight down to the ground, not much forward lighting, maybe mounted too low?
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1991 Westy auto w/ Peloquin TBD

"The only difference between me and a madman is that I'm not mad” - Salvador Dali

[Steve M.]

At the risk on kicking the discussion back onto the road to be run over again...
I say screw the factory position or the position seemly dictated by "fashion"

You got two lights with a wide flat beam, mount them low close to the ground as reasonably possible so you don't bash them on speed bumps. or as low as possible given the body of the vehicle.
They are a wide flat beam- whether inboard or outboard aim them so they a level with each other and overlap the beam in the center to get an even band of light across the front of the vehicle.
If you want more light on the sides of the road do not overlap them as much.
If you want more light ahead of you overlap them more, but if you really need more light to see what is down the road a ways then your probably driving too fast for foggy conditions.
They are going to work regardless of being inboard or outboard if you take the time to "aim" them.
Put them where they work and fit.

[Corwyn]

[WestyBob]

Around 15 years ago a friend of mine had a '88 Vw sinka syncro work truck up in the northern WA Cascades with widely spaced expensive PIAA amber fog lights mounted on the stock bumper. The lens is about 3.5" in diameter.

One night I was following him in my vanagon which has the Projektzwo fogs and this was in late fall. We were in a strange combo of fog and snowing.

At some point we pulled off at a rest stop and chatted about how lousy the stock vanagon headlights were and then got to talking about fogs. We pulled over to the end of the rest area where it was dark and compared our two types of fog lights (with headlights on) and they both did well or well enough and it was hard to favor one over the other.

Then he said something like let me show you something and turned off the headlights with just the amber fogs on and I was stunned --- the light not only penetrated the fog but it made the snow flakes disappear altogether. I did the same with the Zwos, still my favorites, and while they did well it wasn't quite as penetrating.

Since I had a career in image processing, aerial imaging, GIS, blah-blah I knew a little about ultraviolet light, visual bandwidths, colors and blah-blah and realized there's different types of fog, snow and other crap in the air that can favorite amber or white fog lighting.

So I agree with everything Kam's link to Autoanything says (except I didn't see any mention of spacing) but feel there are certain climatic differences that can favor amber over white and vice versa so I'm not quite agreeing they are equal all the time as suggested.

Of course the quality of the light and lens can make a difference too.

Years later I bought that sinka (my avatar) and it still has the amber lights mounted. Since I bought some Terrapodz recently I was planning to replace the PIAA's because they're old now and a little tired. Then I thought why not keep the PIAA's & install the Podz both !

Now I'm working on a way to make them look good (aesthetics) and be functional.

[WestyBob]

[Steve M.]

Every once in a while you read or hear someone say that the amber color gives the scene contrast compared to a white light.

I've used both, but it's been quite since I've actually had to use fog lights so my memory is not accurate on the experiences of them.
I just picked up a fairly decent pair of clear fogs and already have a pair of old Bosch yellow fogs.
I'm going to have some time on my hands in the next 3 months+ so I'm going to install the clear alongside the yellow and try them both. The problem is it is not the foggy season around where I'm out right now and far too many street lights. I'm hoping to do a road trip somewhere and I'll make the opportunity to try both. I'll see if I can get some real world pictures instead of real advertising pictures to show any differences.

[thatvwbusguy]

The performance of a yellow/amber fog light has far less to do with the ability of the light to "penetrate" adverse weather conditions than it does with the human eye's inability to process the blue/violet spectrum of light.

As usual, Daniel Stern has some good info about this subject with links to info based off real science instead of internet fanboi conjecture: http://www.danielsternlighting.com/tech/lights/light_color/light_color.html. There are also pages of info (some good, some not so good) about blue lights at http://www.candlepowerforums.com/.

The yellow/amber fog lights work well on the road for the same reason that HID bulbs over 5,500K don't, mainly because we can "see" some things better than others due to the design of our eyes.
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Jay Brown
'85 Zetec Westfalia
Newmarket, NH


If you want others to be happy, practice compassion.
If you want to be happy, practice compassion.

[IdahoDoug]

Daniel Stern is a great resource and a great guy. I've bought things from him for over 15 years.

Yellow lights are a longer light wave than white lights, and their advantage is not penetration so much, but reduced light reflection from particles in the air (fog droplets, rain) or blowback. In fog, your challenge is not to have a wall of illuminated fog in front of the car so you can see a bit farther than with white fogs. The short light waves of white light will bounce around in a water droplet where longer pass through better.

I've experimented over the years and find the loss of penetration of a yellow fog when its used as supplementary lighting is not worth the relatively smaller gain in fog. So I prefer white fogs. I suspect also that in the old days the yellow lensed fog was a help when fog optics were not so precise. Now with incredibly precise beam patterns the need for yellow is lessened. So today you can have precise fog patterns and good penetration on a clear night. We drive a lot at night on desolate roads and I find big fogs worth their weight in gold for animal avoidance.

Now having laid out my stellar knowledge of colors and optics, I am feeling guilty enough to provide full disclosure. Our new Impreza has a set of Hella 500 driving lights bolted through the bumper in the fog light position the factory uses (junk). And a few months ago I succumbed to the styling trend of yellow lights by putting yellow film on them. So, "do as I say, not as I do." Heh - I'm such a nerd.... Yes, I have yellow driving lights. Cough. They look cool on a pearl white car tho.....

DougM
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1987 2WD Wolfsburg Vanagon Weekender "Mango", two fully locked 80 Series LandCruisers. 2017 Subaru Outback boxer. 1990 Audi 90 Quattro 20V with rear locking differential, 1990 burgundy parts Vanagon. 1984 Porsche 944, 1988 Toyota Supra 5 speed targa, 2002 BMW 325iX, 1982 Toyota Sunrader

[WestyBob]

Don't know if they make them anymore but there used to be some brands with driving lights that came with a snap on plastic yellow cover to kinda turn them into fogs.

[thatvwbusguy]

Since the Hella 500's have a removable lens, you could use the Duplicolor Metalcast spray to offer a more durable tint than an external film can provide.

I have used a couple sets of driving lights with plastic snap on covers. In both cases, the covers scattered the focus of the lens and significantly increased glare to the point where they were pretty much useless as fog lights. While the concept of removable selective yellow covers is very interesting, the real world results that I have seen and read about are less than encouraging and probably more of a gimmick than anything worth investing in.

It would be interesting to see a set of fog lights and driving lights from the same product line (ex. Hella 500 or 550) side by side to directly compare differences in the housings, reflectors and lenses. My suspicion would that the only physical difference is the lens itself, but without actual data to confirm that, it is only a guess.
_________________
Jay Brown
'85 Zetec Westfalia
Newmarket, NH


If you want others to be happy, practice compassion.
If you want to be happy, practice compassion.

[IdahoDoug]

FYI, the yellow film didn't seem to have any untoward effect on the beam pattern. I've never done a yellow removable lense cover, but I think you'd be right about the scatter as anytime light enters or leaves from a solid (glass plastic) to air it gets bent. So the air gap would be a problem.

I've also switched a fog lamp from white to yellow using bulbs. Specifically the PIAA Ion Crystal bulb. It was pretty impressive about 25 years ago - no idea if its still around in this day of cheap colored bulbs from Outer Mongolia.

On the 500s, I think the only difference would be the lense and reflector. I've used both the Driving pattern and Fog pattern over the decades. Like the fogs, the Driving pattern which I have on the Subaru (cough..) is a big meh. The Subaru's factory high beams overpower them even though I jammed 100w bulbs in the Hellas. There is now also an FF version of the 500 fogs which I have no experience with. It's a better lense/reflector but I seem to recall the higher price put me off and I already am happy with the 500s.

Still don't have my big Hellas mounted. Tried one more time to bend the 3/16 plate last night and had some success but again opted to move on to thinner stuff.
_________________
1987 2WD Wolfsburg Vanagon Weekender "Mango", two fully locked 80 Series LandCruisers. 2017 Subaru Outback boxer. 1990 Audi 90 Quattro 20V with rear locking differential, 1990 burgundy parts Vanagon. 1984 Porsche 944, 1988 Toyota Supra 5 speed targa, 2002 BMW 325iX, 1982 Toyota Sunrader

[Jon_slider]

here is a link to a Projektzuo repro, that is in development
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=591047&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=0
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[WestyBob]

[Jon_slider]

[insyncro]

WestyBob,
Some Swedish vehicles, mostly the DOKAs had a lower grill that housed fog lights, super rare though.

If I have time I will dig a pic out of my collection...it may take some time.
Others may know what I'm referring to and post a pic.

[syncrodoka]

I am not a huge fan of the look but they are probably quite effective.

[WestyBob]

Jon & Insyncro -- thanks for the info and links.

Didn't realize Raptorcamper already had them up for sale.

I saw the Zwo bar guards at Syncrofest but for myself, feel they looked really cool but perhaps not as protective as I'd like. Better than nothing for sure.

For now I hope to go with the stick on stuff.

I also bought some heavier grid wire several years ago meaning to experiment with - have to shape and then wrap around behind the lamps like an orgami exercise, paint black to blend it. Remains to be seen if they'd handle a large rock at speed but believe they'd stop the medium to small stuff.

[insyncro]

Thanks Mario, that's the one

[insyncro]

Dagnabbit, double post

[WestyBob]