1600cc Duel-Port I've tried everyyything HELP!

[Dcdan101]

I purchased a 1971 aircooled vw duelport engine 2 years ago and I have yet to get it to run right. I have studied posts on this sight, googled different scenarios , called part shops in california and asked for tech support, bought numerous new parts, purchased the bug me video series, tried talking to a few local people and still dont have a engine that will run consistent enough to drive it without breaking down. I beg someone to take my post serious and help me figure this out, I live in illinois and have no vw shops around me to help me. Its me and my bug me videos and the internet. Please help me fix this engine. I see people on you tube that have their engines start right up, idle great and enjoy their vw, I have yet to ever feel that joy. I either cant get it started, get it started and Idles but after I start driving it I cant keep it idleing.

STORY:

When I purchased the sandrail the engine was apart and I had to buy the bug me video series to put it back together. The cam shaft gear and crank shaft gear dots on the gears are lined up properly so thats not the issue. The engine originally had a weber 40 dcnf 12 with a 009 no vacuum advance distributor.

SYMPTOMS / PROBLEM

I would have to give it gas for 5 minutes when starting to keep it idling then it would idle on its own. I would start driving getting my hopes up that i finally got it running. I'm cruising down the road at 30mph coming up to a stop sign, I push down the clutch and coast to a stop, almost stopped couple more feet, engine idle speed slows down, uhh ohh give it gas otherwise its gonna die, if I dont rev it it will now die. It's not idling on its own now? I Was on my driveway 5 minutes ago and it was idling on its own without having to give it gas? Now i have to keep reving it to keep the engine going. After it died at the stop sign I turn the key and it starts right up but now if I dont give it gas it will die. Now sitting at a light is nerve racking not knowing if I will die and have a line of people behind me. I can go home shut it off, get in it the next day, retune it, have it idling without reving it, get in, drive for 15 minutes, now it wants to die when im not giving it gas.

PARTS / SOLUTIONS

Okay so I'm sick of this problem. I need to get it taken care of. I'm gonna buy some new parts. I went out and purchased the EMPI 34 Pict 3 carburetor. I figured its a carburetor problem and the weber shouldnt be on it plus there was so little info for help I went with a stock reproduction, the 34 Pict 3 wont like my 009 distributor so I bought a SVDA EMPI Distributor ALL IN ONE with electronic ignition. Got a new intake manifold with heat risers because my enhaust is equipped with holes for heat risers, gaskets ect. I'm ready to fix the problem.

1. I put my new carb on, intake manifold, new boots, and distributor, plugs, wires.
2. Adjusted the valves to .006 while watching my BUG ME video
3. Hooked up the carb parts, automatic choke, fuel shut off to the coil. ( remember my last carb was a manuel choke with NO parts running to the coil ) and my vw was having the running issue).
4. Set the timing
Using the 009 I would set it to 7.5 BTDC with the test light but an electronic ignition cant be set with a test light so i purchased a strobe. I set the 009 to 7.5 degree, 5 degree, 10 degree btdc NEVER made the issue go away, it may idle higher setting at a greater advance but the issue would still arise after driving the car awhile
5. I use the strobe, rev to 3500 rpms and set the timing at 32 no more advance, 30 no more advance, 28 no more advance. Doesnt matter issue still arouse after driving it after 5 minutes.
6. Lets get the carb going. I adjust the idle adjustment screw to where it JUST touches the bottom cam ( butterfly at vertical) and turn it in 1/4 a turn. Set the bypass screw ( larger screw ) bottom it out all the way in then turn it 2.5 turns out aka 5 half turns. Now the volume control screw ( smaller one) I bottom it out then turn it 2.5 turns out aka 5 half turns. Try starting and will hardly start at all. The bug me video has the volume screw ( smaller one out 10 half turns). So i try that and can get it started sometimes, sometimes not. Eventually getting the car to idle. I have the vacuum return port on the carb, on the rear of the carb plugged. I have my vacuuum advance line hooked up. Yay its idling. I let it fully warm up, start driving, here we go again I have to now keep giving it gas to keep it going, so i hop out and adjust the bypass screw out to increase the idle. Yay its idling again ok lets go, start driving couple mins later same problem i must keep reving it to keep from dieing. Why is this thing all over the place????

7. There must be a vacuum leak! I spray carb cleaner around the duel castings that go to the heads, the boots, heat risers, carb, throttle assembly. There are no intake leaks anywhere.

All the similar problems people would suggest the following.

1. Must have somthing clogging carb, take apart blow compressed air. I bought a brand new carb. Even if that was the problem the likelyhood that i has the same problem with the weber is not likely. Right out of the box brand new i still had this issue.

2. Try adjusting valves. I did. Time and time again.

3. Set the timing. Ive used a 009 had the problem. Bought a new one with electronic ignition, had the same problem. Put my 009 back in got new points, condensorse , set point gap accordingly, still same problem.

4. Did numerous adjustments to the carb, still had same problem. Maybe the float was bad and getting stuck, nope had 2 different carbs. Still not going away.

Day after day i can go to the car cold, get it started, maintain an idle, get excited, get in and start driving, after 5 mins now its having trouble maintaining idle, hop out, adjust idle bypass to idle higher , works for a few mins, wants to die again, advance the timing, wow its idleing really high, drive for awhile, great its happening again if i dont keep giving it gas it will die. Recheck for intake leaks, none. Unplug the return vacuum port on carb, revs high doesnt fix it. Use a dvda doesnt fix it, 009 with new points, condesor, gap set, doesnt fix it.

PLEASE HELP. Only the best vw mechanics will be able to help because parts people at vw shops on the phone have no idea. I did a compression test on all 4 cylinders, they were fine according to the bug me video. The only thing i can think of is new heads? I dunno? Fuel pump should be fine theres gas in the carb bowl, in line fuel filter isnt clogged because gas makes it to carb. HELP PLEASEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE. HOW CAN NEW CARB AND DISTRIBUTOR give me the same problemsss.

[andrewvwclassic]

Compression check.

[Dcdan101]

I already did a compression check and included that. #'s are 130, 150, 138, 130. Bug me video suggests anything above 90 is fine.

[andrewvwclassic]

Ahh I see you may have some deep compression totally crossed my mind when you said dual carbs. you have to find exact tdc without heads on calculate compression and retime for your svda. da total brain fart.

[birddog1]

Pity you bought EMPI on the carb and distributor. I wouldn't trust EMPI for either of them but since you have the same problem as before probably not the issue

[Dcdan101]

Thanks for helping andrew! Im confused though by what you said. Find exact tdc ( top dead center I have pulley with all degrees on it soi can find 0) but after thatvI'm lost.

[Dcdan101]

Ive searched the web and found other people post with the same problem, but never find a solution to the problem. Specifically pulling up to a stop sign reducing rpm's and engine starts to die. All i can think of is new heads but I'd hate to spend $650 on new heads with valves install and find the same problem again:-( i thought a new carb and distributor would kick butt. I had my coil (blue bosch) tested at autozone and came back fine.

[andrewvwclassic]

Top dead cent on your pulley is not really tdc. it changes more with engine changes. Compression changes ect. any moddifications should have been taken Iinto account before yours. you never really know. you have a stroker build and your not cutting it with the svda. get some spacers to fix compression and find tdc with a dial guage. and time for your svda per spec.

[andrewvwclassic]

My best advice put the duals and 009 back and work from there. I personally hate them they guzzle gas and wear on parts. sorry.

[BugMan114]

the coil could be going bad as it gets hot. a testing machine won't be able to tell you that. I'd just swap the coil if I was you. Also, have you checked compression when its hot? might be loosing when its warmed up.

Are you adjusting your valves correctly? just a few ideas
_________________
1974 Super Beetle: Custom resto in progress
1972 Super Beetle: Daily Driver
1971 Std. Beetle w/ 1929 Mercedes Benz Gazelle kit
1960 Baja Bug
1969 Baja Bug
Sand Rail- Homemade
Sand Rail- FUBAR

Aircooled Airheads

Why the hell do they call it a gland nut. its obviously a big fat bolt!!!

[Dcdan101]

Thanks any ideas are welcomed as I will try them all!!! I never had duel carbs, just a duel (port) engine with a 40 dcnf 12. Im using my 009 right now with new points condensor rotor and cap with plugged vacuum ports on carb to eliminate the problem of electronic ignitions having too much voltage change burning them out, (as what happend to the empi and i had to send it back). I feel like when the engine really heats up something is changing in the heads or cylinders like suggested because its only after i start driving it. I can start it up and have it idle forever on my drive but once it starts having to work it changes and doesnt wanna run anymore.

[andrewvwclassic]

Compufire need to be matched with high output coils and wire sets the bosch blu I beleive will work. only sell it in europe though.

[Dcdan101]

I'm going to get a new coil. That does make sense and after some research a sign of a failing coil is stalling when coming to a stop and having to restart it. And the fact that my empi electronic ignition distributor failed after 2 hrs of use may have been a sign that the right voltage wasnt being provided even though my volt meter on my dash sits around 12v. I bought the pertronix flame thrower plug and play svda electronic ignition distributor after the empi failed but i will wait to use it with a new coil as I dont wanna burn out the ignition pack! Ordering a new coil! I will also do a compression check after driving it for a little tomorrow once the idling problem starts! Thanks soooo much you guys I'm excited! Anymore suggestions are welcomed because the more suggestions the better chance to get it fixed! The sandrail was built by a Vietnam vet and deserves to be on the street showing off its camo colors and big american flag mounted on the back. Thanks!

[BugMan114]

the engine really won't warm up until it has a load on it. because that's the only time the throttle can open up, and create power. otherwise, its just sitting there spinning. What ever the issue is, it changes with heat, which is why I'd be taking a closer look at the compression when hot. because if you have any tight valves, or loosening heads (you would hear the infamous head farting if that was the case tho), or worn rings, it would reflect on a compression test. of course this can be very difficult to do because by the time you stop, yank a plug, and actually do the test, it may have cooled down enough to not reflect the issue. I'd just take it for a drive till it starts doing what its doing, try to keep it running and doing what its doing, and then be like chuck Norris on crack, and yank a plug and check it. If all of them seem fine it may be some other kind of issue.

Also were you 100% confident in the way you adjusted your valves? I ask because most people adjust their valves based on TDC, and BDC, and all that stuff, and it can get really confusing. the simplest way I do it, is by adjusting the first one on both sides of the motor. turn the motor, till the left one is as far down as it will go, then adjust the right one. then turn the motor till the right one is as far down as it will go, then adjust the left one. then move to the second ones on both sides. and so on. the cam shaft only has 4 bumps, so the first valve on both sides of the motor are using the same bump on the cam. so when the first valve on one side of the motor is all the way open, the first valve on the other side of the motor can be adjusted, because the cam lobe is as far away as it can be, thus good to adjust. its so much quicker, and accurate then the other way.

What about your ground strap? and have you had to adjust your clutch recently? the reason I ask, is because if your ground strap isn't making good enough contact or its missing altogether, the best ground from the motor to the rest of the car is thru the clutch cable, which when hot enough from electricity flowing thru it can create enough resistance, enough to create electrical problems. which can also cause the cable itself to stretch, or even snap over time. but I don't think there's a significant enough more power being drawn while driving, meaning I would think that if this was the issue, the car would sputter and die, regardless if it was just sitting in the driveway or driving down the road. either way, I'd check the strap.

I do hope you figure out the issue. I was just going thru difficult time diagnosing why my darn clutch wasn't working. turns out, the clutch tube in the tunnel broke loose, XD. the weird problems always happen to me
_________________
1974 Super Beetle: Custom resto in progress
1972 Super Beetle: Daily Driver
1971 Std. Beetle w/ 1929 Mercedes Benz Gazelle kit
1960 Baja Bug
1969 Baja Bug
Sand Rail- Homemade
Sand Rail- FUBAR

Aircooled Airheads

Why the hell do they call it a gland nut. its obviously a big fat bolt!!!

[andrewvwclassic]

Why did you get an electronic ignition they are crap. you should have gotten an 019 from glenn ring.

[BugMan114]

[Dcdan101]

Wow more great ideas thanks! I adjust my valves just how rick higgins shows me in the BUG ME video series at .006 with just slight drag on the feeler gauge. Im happy i did get all new parts for my 009 because I'm newer to the vw and i hear mixed reviews on the electronic ignitions so i can always use my trusty points set at .016 gap on the old distributor if the electronic ignition fails again.

[airschooled]

Dear Lord what happened to diagnosing issues before treating them. Doctors don't fuck around and replace body parts because they don't like your arm or their buddy told them that certain arms are better than others.

Listen to your engine, it is tying to talk to you. It only wants three things.

1) Compression. Easy, you've already ruled it out.

2) Spark. At the right time. Your timing should be close. My engines can idle all the way from 30*atdc to 30*btdc, timing is important for a good tune but you can get groceries without a strobe light. We'll get it perfect later. For now, hook up your light and don't worry about the distributor. Rev your engine with the light hooked up to any plug wire. Let it fall to idle. When the engine cuts out, does the light stop flashing? Spark issue!

3) Fuel and air mixture. This one is more picky than timing. It takes very little fuel and air to idle a Volkswagen, and any imbalance can leave it on the floor like a lightweight at a college kegger. Idle uses the least fuel and air, so it is more sensitive than at high RPM; when you're going down the road there is so much air and fuel passing through that tiny variations aren't perceived by humans.


Lets concentrate on air/fuel mixture- think through the system. Start at the tank and follow the hoses. See a fuel filter? Check it for debris and emptiness. Fuel pump? Check it be gently removing the hose from the carb and cranking the engine over with the hose in an empty GAS PROOF container with an extinguisher nearby. Racing like a piss horse? Move on to the carb. There's a ball valve under the hose inlet on the carb that has a float just like a toilet flushing mechanism. When the carb "bowl" (or reserve) is full, the ball/needle valve prevents excess fuel from entering. If there is a blockage, you'll be short on fuel for the mixture. Check this by running at a decent rpm and slightly heavy throttle driving, then immediately clutch neutral, shut the engine off, and coast to a safe spot. Remove the top 5 screws on the carb and check for fuel under the float. Fuel there? Yer good. While the top is off, use your hand to pump the throttle and look carefully down the throat for a faucet squirting fuel. This is your accelerator pump; it's used when you jam on the gas to roast the Prius going 45 on the freeway. It works by giving quick squirts of gas down the throat. The pump test makes sure you have gas in the bowl too, but it's not useful for idling.

Now we think about the air, since fuel is where it needs to be. Remember that tiny variations cause big fluctuations. The 34pict3 carb actually has a small idle carb built in to the passages. If you tuned it using your service manual or the instructions on VWrescource or Volkzbitz.com, you will see that you set the mixture, idle speed, and fast idle speed separately. The fast idle speed is set with the cam on the choke mechanism, and that allows more air and more fuel in at a good ratio for warm up. This is why your engine runs fine when first started. Once the choke gets out of the way, your mixture must be perfect. There is a little brass solenoid in the left side of the carb, and it MUST be wired on to the positive side of the coil. This is what activates the small idle part of the 34/3. If it's unplugged, your idle will never ever ever EVER work properly. Some hacks will cut the end off the solenoid to mask their inability to tune or find intake leaks. Unacceptable. It will run though, but don't confuse running with proper operation. I have not seen anyone mention this device, and I'm almost embarrassed. It's a cheap part, and if it's not plugged in or working it would cause ALL of your issues with the 34pict3 carb. Test it by unplugging it, and repeatedly touching its wire to its connector while you leave the key on. You should hear a solid click each time. Alternatively, try driving the car with the solenoid wire unplugged AND CAPPED as it is hot and not fused. If the car drives the same, you know your problem is in your idle circuit.

So let's recap. Listen to your engine. Test for spark. Test for fuel.

Report back.
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[Anthonyisawsome]

What carburetor is it??
_________________
I have learned so much, but yet I still don't know anything because knowing what you don't know is showing you how much you haven't learned.

1973 Subaru powered supabeetle
(o\ l /o) 1964 Baja bug roller

[Dcdan101]

Wow more great posts thanks! I will do some of these tests tomorrow if weather permits. I have checked that solenoid for the clicking and it works. I would hope it worked its brand new on my EMPI 34 Pict 3 carb but ya never know. Only issue is the previous weber 40 dcnf 12 carb didnt have that and the issue was still happening. We shall see. No matter what solves it I will post it on here when I find the solution guaranteed as I want anyone else with stalling problems when coming to a stop sign to fix their buggy too. It's embarrassing restarting it as people stare at me and think Im driving a pos. I will show them it works great soon!