Replacing Radiator Fan in Late Model Vanagon w/ AC

[slobrewer]

I'm posting mostly for posterity as I didn't find a good answer to this question before I dove into my project.

The fan in my 1988 Vanagon Westfalia w/ AC and an automatic transmission ran into some serious issues last summer (http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=561887). In summary at the highest speed it let out an unbearably loud squeal indicating the bearings were shot. I got the replacement fan at a good deal thanks to the recommendations on this board but hadn't gotten around to swapping it out till now.

My main question had been whether it was possible to swap out the fan without opening up the cooling system or messing with the AC. The closest thread I could find was this one: http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=565723, which didn't sound promising.

Well I'm happy to report that it was a relatively simple job to drop the radiator and swap out the fan without having to open up either the cooling or AC system. The process was roughly the following and didn't even require getting out the jack:

Remove the spare tire
Remove the spare tire support
Remove the radiator grill cover from the front of the van
Disconnect the temp sensor from the front of the radiator
Disconnect the bracket supporting the AC lines
Set up a jack and block of wood to support the weight of the radiator
Remove the driver and passenger side radiator supports
Lower the radiator so you can get access to the fan shroud bolts
Remove the fan fuse (the 30 amp fuse in location 1) just as a safety to ensure the fan doesn't come on
Disconnect the fan power and ground wires
Remove the six fan shroud bolts
Pull off the fan shroud and fan
Remove the fan from the shroud
Repeat all the steps in reverse to install the new fan.

All told it was about an hour and a half job. Not bad at all.

On a totally unrelated note my AC system brew out the o-ring between the compressor and the high pressure side while I was running the van to test the new fan. That was *exciting* as it catastrophically vented all the freon and a few ounces of bright orange dyed compressor oil onto the exhaust. I killed the engine right away when I heard the noise but it took me a while to track down the source of the issue. The compressor was replaced and the system overhauled by a Westy specialist in the area about a year ago so I'll be giving them a call for what seems to have been a faulty install that lead to the failure. I can't imagine a case where a proper install would lead to the o-ring blowing out and venting the system...

Anyway, hopefully this post is helpful to someone in the future who faces a similar job.[/list]
_________________
White 1988 Vanagon Westfalia (Automatic, A/C, solar, aux battery, 15" GW wheels, 8' Fiamma awning, 63 qt. Edgestar fridge, homebrew on tap)

[furrylittleotter]

Sounds like the system overpressurized due to inadequate flow of air through the condensing coil. An o-ring failure in that situation is the best thing that could've happened. Common for that to occur with systems overfilled with r134.

Make sure fan runs on high with ac on and that you have a functioning high limit switch on high side.the red die was actually oil probably.

Neil2

[slobrewer]

Thanks Neil, that's a good idea on why it failed when it did. A fan failure should obviously never result in an AC system blowing out but this could explain why there was more load on the high pressure side of the system and the connection failed when it did.
_________________
White 1988 Vanagon Westfalia (Automatic, A/C, solar, aux battery, 15" GW wheels, 8' Fiamma awning, 63 qt. Edgestar fridge, homebrew on tap)

[crazyvwvanman]

There is a high pressure switch that is supposed to kick the rad fan up to a much higher speed when the freon pressure gets high. Later years they added an additional even higher pressure switch to shutdown the compressor when pressures got super high. I think the triple pressure switch started in 89.

Mark

[slobrewer]

[Howesight]

It's actually pretty straightforward to install a trinary switch on an existing Vanagon AC system. You would use the existing high-pressure fan switch location and install a modern trinary switch. Beneath the existing switch is a Schraeder valve, so you don't even lose refrigerant when doing the install.

You would then wire the high-pressure cut-out switch to the compressor clutch relay, in series with the low-pressure switch wire to the compressor clutch relay. This results in the compressor clutch losing power in the event refrigerant pressure is too high or too low.

It is also possible to directly wire the high-pressure portion of the trinary switch between the wire connecting to the compressor clutch and compressor relay, but the better approach is to use the compressor relay to do what it was designed to do.
_________________
'86 Syncro Westy SVX

[slobrewer]

Just to close off on this thread, the shop agreed that there was an issue with the original A/C service and the o-rings hadn't been properly seated. Despite it being 7 days past the one year parts and labor warranty they completely stood behind their work. I believe the additional pressure load caused by the fan not running was the trigger for the system to blow out (I was completely open with them about the circumstances) but we both agreed that it shouldn't have caused it.

They've fixed up and properly recharged the system and I'm back up and running.

For the curious, this was Westy Werks in San Luis Obispo, CA. I'll happily go back to them for future work that's beyond my skill/tools/time as they really stood behind their work without any hassle.
_________________
White 1988 Vanagon Westfalia (Automatic, A/C, solar, aux battery, 15" GW wheels, 8' Fiamma awning, 63 qt. Edgestar fridge, homebrew on tap)

[sanfordphoto]

Hi, could anyone tell me exactly where the "driver and passenger side radiator supports" are?

Are their just two on the bottom?

Thanks,
Sanford

[syncrodoka]

[dobryan]

Two Ell brackets on the bottom. On the top there are vertical posts on the top side edge of the radiator that fit into grommets and thru a locating hole on the body. It will be more obvious when you drop the radiator down some.
_________________
Dave O
'87 Westy w/ 2002 Subaru EJ25 and Peloquin TBD

"To travel hopefully is a better thing than to arrive." Robert Louis Stevenson

MD>Canada>AK>WA>OR>CA>AZ>UT>WY>SD
https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=620646

Building a bus for travel in Europe (euroBus)
https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=695371

The Western Syncro build
https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=746794

[rmcd]

The attachment of the AC condenser to the radiator isnt clear to me. Is there a bentley picture someone could post or photos?

Ive seen the other thread about using hose clamps to attach the bottom of the condenser but the top is a little more illusive in my mind.
thanks
_________________
VW LT40 build. Like a Vanagon but 30% larger in every direction and 40% slower even in metric.
https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=749359&highlight=

[dobryan]

As I recall the A/C is bolted onto the radiator housing and comes out as a unit with the radiator. When I did my last radiator swap all I had to do was remove the A/C line clamps from the underbody to create enough slack to lower the rad/A/C as a unit. Never had to disconnect the A/C lines from the condenser, just unbolted it from the radiator when I had lowered everything.
_________________
Dave O
'87 Westy w/ 2002 Subaru EJ25 and Peloquin TBD

"To travel hopefully is a better thing than to arrive." Robert Louis Stevenson

MD>Canada>AK>WA>OR>CA>AZ>UT>WY>SD
https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=620646

Building a bus for travel in Europe (euroBus)
https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=695371

The Western Syncro build
https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=746794

[termuehlen]

I just wanted to post that Slobrewer is right on with his instructions here. I too have an '88 Westy Automatic with AC. Replacing the fan was relatively straightforward and works just as stated in this thread. The only additional advice I can give is that it is possible to access some of the upper shroud bolts through the radiator opening in the front of the van, as you drop the radiator, particularly on the left side. This may help, in that you don't have to drop the radiator all the way down to get at the top bolts from the bottom.

As Slobrewer states, there is no need to drain any coolant to replace the radiator fan.

Also, Gowesty is offering the replacement motor at a "while supplies last" price of $299. I know that there are other aftermarket replacement options available and other potential sources of fan motors, but if you need a new one right now...

http://www.gowesty.com/product-details.php?v=&id=3789&type=
_________________
1988 Westfalia automatic Subaru OBD1
1986 syncro tintop wbx

[tlbranth]

Good call, Term, on removing the upper radiator grill to remove the two upper shroud bolts. Two other things that might make it easier: the blocks that are under the jack should be situated so that the back of the block is just a tad behind the back of the radiator - this gives room for the shroud to be lowered.
Blocks under the jack should be low enough that the radiator can be lowered at least 8 1/2" in order for you to access the two middle shroud bolts.
The two lower shroud bolts are easily accessible with the radiator lowered even a little.
Any slack you can give the a/c lines will be helpful when you're trying to get the shroud out.
_________________
Terry

1991 Westfailure. 2004 Forester 2.5 engine. 4speed Standard transmission.

[Rawbacon9975]

Would this process be the same on an '89? (A/C, 4-spd)

Also, where can I get a new fan and motor??? GoWesty has been sold out for a while... Is there another aftermarket one that will fit AND be in stock somewhere?

Thanks,
Rob

1989 Westy w/Subaru 2.2 (with loose wrist pin and needing replacement)
Columbus, OH

[kevinm]

I believe the answer is yes, and this well-regarded vendor appears to have one in stock:

https://www.vancafe.com/251959455M-p/251959455m.htm

[Rawbacon9975]

Wow! $489? I'm on the email list for the aftermarket one at less than half the price... Fingers crossed...

[dhaavers]

Yeah, aftermarket parts are awesome...

(fingers crossed for you...)

- Dave
_________________
86 White Wolfsburg Westy Weekender
"The WonderVan"
<EDITED TO PROTECT INNOCENT PIXELS>

[Rawbacon9975]

I'll never claim to be an expert...is the difference worth it? For a part like this?
Why?

[Snort]

Here is a motor only from Busdepot for $199. The day I have to spend $489 on a radiator fan motor is they day I sell the Vanagon.

Most if not all of the people that are daily Samba readers are going to have their eyes glued to the temperature gauge in stop-and-go traffic or pulling slowly up a long steep hill. The chance of you not noticing a failed fan motor be it OEM or aftermarket is essentially zero.

http://www.busdepot.com/251959455m