Drag racing transaxles

[Sahall]

@gkeeton it sounds like I should stay with swing, do you have an estimate of what a built type 1 swing transaxle will be able to handle? Thanks guys for all the info guys,

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[MURZI]

I would guess my 2276 is putting out 160-170 hp and gobs of torque. Within 40 miles "I" took out two pro street type trannies. Stepped up to a pro comp plus rancho and all is well so far. Don't forget the axles... To my door was 2500... No core. 3.88 and close gears.

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62 vert
2276
Tim’s welded heads
45 Dells
A1 sidewinder
Fk44 cam

[Sahall]

@gkeeton thanks a lot for the help man, I think I'm going to contact rancho and see what they can build me.

[[email protected]]

You could also talk with the shop that built the trans for the 66 Beetle with the 2332. It's called Jim's Custom VW's, in Columbiana Ohio.
http://jimscustomvw.com
If you speak with Jim, the owner of the 66 Beetle's name is Bill Sewak (last name pronounced "sea walk") if you want more info on that perticular trans.

[bugguy076]

It takes a gentle clutch foot to avoid breaking a VW tranny. Right hand on the E-brake to keep the car stagged, and your left foot slipping the clutch to remove all free play in the driveline, along with the right foot keeping the RPM at 4,800RPM to make the launches consistant takes some practice.
You might as well get the idea of it never breaking out of you knogen. It will happen. I look at the parts in my race car as through away stuff. I''ll build it better after this stuff breaks !
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Grubby Fingers Racing
1976 Drag Bug
1967 Street Bug

[skills@eurocarsplus]

[vwracerdave]

A Type I transaxle is all you need for a 175 HP engine that could run 13.0's in the 1/4. All these "Pro Street" and "Pro Comp" names don't mean a damn thing. A good Transaxle that can handle 175 HP and drag slicks is going to be $2000-$2500. You must decide if you want a race car gearing or a street car gearing, you CAN NOT have both. You will have to compromise one or the other. One thing that destroys transaxles is using way too heavy of clutch & pressure plate. The Ring & Pinion gear cracks over time and can't take endless abuse. With 175 HP expect a total rebuild after 200 full 1/4 mile passes.
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2017 Street Comp Champion - Thunder Valley Raceway Park - Noble, OK
2010 Sportsman ET Champion - Mid-America Dragway - Arkansas City, KS
1997 Sportsman ET Champion - Thunder Valley Raceway Park - Noble ,OK

[spencerfvee]

Well I have been drag raceing vws since 1969 and still raceing vws .i don't know every thing abouts a vw transaxle because I am still learning about a vw transaxle . Over the years I have broke my fair share of vw gear boxes .Any one who has ever raced a vw car knows about this old saying .how fast do you want to go how much money do you have . Believe me over the years .I have spent well over $100,000 racing vws .i wish had had some of that money back too lol .here's my two cents. I know you want to use a swing trans.to me I have found out the that a Swing trans are a big pain in the ass .I like the IRS trans because if it breaks you can change it real fast at the drag strip . I have lost money drag raceing with a swing trans. Be cause it broke at the track. And I could not Change it in time to race .For a new be like you. I would find a good thing trans .it was one of the strongest transaxles Vw ever made . I like the strong 10 tooth spider gears it has .I like the 378 first gear and I like the 94 forth gear with the strongest 4:125 ring and piñion gear .vw ever made for a bug and thing . I would rebuild it using a older 1st and second trans bearings found in from 1962 to 1967 bugs .you would have to hand pack 3rd gear with bearings from gene berg if they still sell them .on4 th gear you can use a bearing from a 1962 to 1967 trans .over the years I have found out that these older bearings hold up under drag raceing use . I then would install a IRS super diff using 4 10 tooth spider gears. Allso you can use the bus CV joints I allways use solid trans mounts with a rear eng. mount .i like using a pro grip clutch disc. Using a stock pressure plate for a 100 HP motor and a 1700 lb for bigger motor . I a sure others build there trans .differnt from what I do .like I said just my two cents take it or leave it lol spencerfveequote="Dr OnHolliday"]Hi guys:

My son and I are considering going racing - starting from the most basic level to learn our lessons - ie using a type 1, close to stock but stripped down and dedicated to racing. We would hope to upgrade over time. I'm ASSUMING a swingaxle...

I'm interested in your experience and opinions on various levels of transaxle upgrades, on whichever basis you want (ie HP level or et).

FOR EXAMPLE:

Up to xx HP / yy sec ET a stock transaxle is OK.
At zz HP / aa sec ET you need to weld 3 & 4 gears (or whatever)
Etc
Etc
At 8 sec you need a Weddle or Mendeola ____ transaxle

Thanx[/quote]

[Sahall]

Thanks for the help guys, I really appreciate it. I will look into that gkeeton. Vwracerdave, for gearing I was thinking close 1st through 3rd and a stock 4th, is that a bad idea? Is 3.88 r/p the way to go? I would like to have a berg 5 one day but that's way out of my price range right now.

[vwracerdave]

For a 50% street 50% strip car I would run a 4.12 R&P with stock 1/2 and close 3/4. For a full street car that will only see the track 1-2 a year I would run a stock geared trans and run the 1/4 in 3 gears. For a full race car 3.88 R&P and a close 1/2 mainshaft. Currently they cost around $1000. Another option is 2 sets of rear wheels. A set of smaller tires for the drag strip and a set of taller tires for road trips to grandma's house.
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2017 Street Comp Champion - Thunder Valley Raceway Park - Noble, OK
2010 Sportsman ET Champion - Mid-America Dragway - Arkansas City, KS
1997 Sportsman ET Champion - Thunder Valley Raceway Park - Noble ,OK

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The gearing is going to depend on engine output, and if you are running 1/8 mile, or 1/4 mile races. Like Dave mentioned, you can't have both track, and street gears with a 4sp. If running 1/8 mile, you could run close 1-3 for the track with a stock 4th, but the hole between 3rd/4th is going to be miserable, and close 1st/2nd gearsets are going to increase the overall cost by $700-$1000. For 1/4 mile you could run stock 1st, 2nd, and 4th, and shorten 3rd ever so slightly for optimum rpm at the end of the 1/4 mile. You could also run the stock 1st/2nd with shorter 3rd/4th, or close 1st, 2nd, 3rd, 4th for the 1/4 mile, but it won't be too much fun to drive on the street.

A 3.88 r&p is going to be the strongest in stock form, but overall gearing (gear ratio x r&p) is going to depend on engine output to be optimum. A lot say a 3.88 r&p with a 3.78 1st is actually quite tall in a full weight Beetle with slicks making less than 150hp. Will a 3.88x3.78 1st "work" with less than 150hp, yeah, but a 4.12x3.78, or 3.88x4.11 may work better. The latter combo with the 4.11 is going to be an aftermarket mainshaft that's going to set you back $1000.

Edit: Dave treed me on the gearing!

[Sahall]

Okay, I think I have most of the info I need to make a decision, thanks for all your suggestions and time guys, I appreciate it greatly

[modok]

i did a 3.78/2.25/1.42/1.04 3.88 final

Considerably closer spacing, and GREAT as a street trans with 28-30 tall tire.

but you pretty much have to be a baha bug or ratrod to pull that off the giant "street" tire

[nsracing]

Money is always the bottom line. If you just want to start out building one trans- have at it. Run that and you will soon find out what mods you need to make it last. There are parts that come in different years trans bug or bus that you can use.
To go Bus into Bug will not be cheap....like Dave Folts setup. IRS guts but Swing outboards.
Strict Swing axle is the simplest you can go. You can use late gears and pinion/ gears into early tunnels. There are also Bus gears already welded from factory- I love these!
You want to make it last , you have to pay attention to the 'preloads' and clearances. Gotta have the tranny tools for this . Cannot wing it or you will have parts scattered along the track.

I suggest you try and do a simple overhaul on one tranny and see if that is something you want to delve into.
Hope this helps.

[neil68]

[Fiatdude]

Here is a cool thread on another forum about doing a 10 sec bug -- Richie has a low 8 sec bug in the UK

http://cal-look.no/lounge/index.php/topic,18831.0.html

I'm running over 240 HP with a 091 built by Benco (I've also had very good luck with Wright gear boxes) with a dual disc clutch by Kennedy,,, I wouldn't dream of trying to run swing axles with the crap axles being supplied today -- -- my experience is that clutch management is really what makes or breaks a trans -- the better the management the longer the life -- a simple switch over to a hydraulic clutch system with the release slowed down by one of several methods and you're golden -- -- most of the ProMod guys running over 1000HP use either a Hydraulic system or a compressed air system to make their trans live and yes these guys can destroy a $10K Mendy very quickly if their management isn't set up just right -- -- A lot of guys are now migrating to the REV 6 clutch system built and sold by Ron Lumus (RLR) and that seems to be a real hot ticket for trans life

The problem with using tire slip for your management is that all it takes is a few seconds of wheel hop with a moderately powered car and your going to break lots of stuff quickly
_________________
Remember, as you travel the highway of life,
For every mile of road, there is 2 miles of ditch

[spencerfvee]

Hi here's something to think about .i see a lot of new bees at vw shows .drag raceing there new race cars .They go out and spend a lot of money on there race cars . then I see them the next year trying to sell there race cars. And they are lucky to get half there money back when they sell there race car .most of them sell there race cars because they break parts .and spend a lot of money fixing there race cars . I know a guy that bought a pro mod car and drove it 3 times and sold it because it scared the hell out of him lol. if I were you I would not spend a lot of money on a trans to start with because drag raceing can be boring to some people .my self I have waited up to 4 hrs and longer to race at some tracks .allso you must ask your self can you handle a . high HP vw race car . They can be a bear to handle .i have seen some turbo 10 second vw race cars get out of the grove and there al over the track .there Allso a bear to handle in a cross wind at the end of a track .i had the wind pick my bug up and put me in the other lane .on a real high wind day .my best friend broke a axle at 80 mph and hit the guard rail the car went upside down and over the guard rail .he almost got killed the race car was junk .thats why I don't like spools .or locked rear gears you break a axle and your going to take the ride of your life . With a spool or locked rear end gears . What I am saying is try drag racing first to see if you like it and most of all be carefull .i am not trying to put drag racing down I love racing just my two cents spencerfveequote="Sahall"]Thanks for the help guys, I really appreciate it. I will look into that gkeeton. Vwracerdave, for gearing I was thinking close 1st through 3rd and a stock 4th, is that a bad idea? Is 3.88 r/p the way to go? I would like to have a berg 5 one day but that's way out of my price range right now.[/quote]

[VWCOOL]

Keep it simple: Start with a standard, ex-wreckers yard gearbox with fresh oil. This will enable you to learn the craft/discipline of drag racing without spending much money. And... you may be surprised how much flogging a standard gearbox can handle

Many successful VW drag cars are swingers but my preference is for IRS; my 'drag' cars are also track/handling cars and of course IRS provides better handling. As mentioned, a late Cabrio is the best source for a gearbox, although it allegedly has a weak 3rd gear (I have not damaged one so cannot confirm)

With IRS, the standard CVs act like a fuse, breaking before a diff.

The IRS boxes are FAR easier to R&R at a track (or at home) if/when required.

A driveshaft and two CVs can be replaced in around 10 minutes without lifting the car (as long as you are skinny!)

With a broken diff/box, your car can remain mobile/rolling by removing both axles


Hope this helps