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sloboatnova
Samba Member
Joined: September 20, 2009
Posts: 989
Location: Broken Arrow, Ok
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 Posted: Tue Jun 03, 2014 5:27 am Post subject: 3btbaja 1915 build Scat rocker assy stuck on head |
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I'm gonna start an engine build thread and ask my questions here so that I don't start a bunch more threads. And yes, I also search first.
Here's what I'm working with
Mexico AS41 case .020 over, drilled and tapped fir full flow flycut for 94mm mahles
CB forged CW crank
bugpack 4063 cam
DRD 049 heads 40/35.5
lightened flywheel drilled for 8 dowels
KP stage 1 with cushlock
3rib 091 bus tranny
running 235-75r15 mud tires
See recent posts for stuck rocker discussion
_________________
Ms Hoover, I glued my head to my shoulder.
3BT Baja build page
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=417564&highlight=3bt+baja
Last edited by sloboatnova on Tue Jul 29, 2014 5:08 pm; edited 3 times in total |
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sloboatnova
Samba Member
Joined: September 20, 2009
Posts: 989
Location: Broken Arrow, Ok
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| Posted: Tue Jun 03, 2014 5:35 am Post subject: |
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First question.
Do these rods look ok? What I mean is, do the pits on the side appear to be a potential problem? I've already had them checked and they are in spec. The small end bushing will get replaced along with new bearings.
_________________
Ms Hoover, I glued my head to my shoulder.
3BT Baja build page
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=417564&highlight=3bt+baja |
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VWporscheGT3
Samba Member
Joined: September 01, 2006
Posts: 2076
Location: Gardnerville, NV
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| Posted: Tue Jun 03, 2014 11:08 am Post subject: |
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I used some rebuilt's that looked like that, engine is still running fine 45K later... but i prolly should have found some better ones.
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Schnell, SCHNELL!
I like being wrong, Because, it is another opportunity to learn. If you stop learning from your mistakes than what is the point?
If you have any questions about Forged ICON 4032 VW pistons just shoot me a line. |
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sloboatnova
Samba Member
Joined: September 20, 2009
Posts: 989
Location: Broken Arrow, Ok
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sloboatnova
Samba Member
Joined: September 20, 2009
Posts: 989
Location: Broken Arrow, Ok
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| Posted: Wed Jun 04, 2014 6:56 am Post subject: |
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I was going to run a BP 4063 cam I have, but after reading reviews, most everyone said it doesnt produce power until 3000 rpm. I would like a cam with lower RPM torque as well.
I'll run a single Weber 44 IDF
Trimill sidewinder 1 5/8"(I know its a little big, but it's what I want due to fitment and ground clearance.)
I also plan on running a set of scat 1.25-1 ratio rockers on the DRD heads
Would a engle w120 be any better or should I go lower? w110 maybe?
_________________
Ms Hoover, I glued my head to my shoulder.
3BT Baja build page
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=417564&highlight=3bt+baja |
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midtravelmidengine
Samba Member
Joined: August 06, 2009
Posts: 861
Location: Riverside, Ca
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| Posted: Wed Jun 04, 2014 8:01 am Post subject: |
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In my opinion 263* duration is ALOT for a 1915 in a baja set-up. it would take roughly 10:1 compression to make that cam happy on 91 fuel. What CC did you order the heads at?
How do you do most of your driving? is it a Daily driver with the ocasional weekend trail rides, or dedicated toy etc?
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| modok wrote: |
| And I know you don't know because if you did you would know the reason for my knowing you didn't. |
| youngnstudly wrote: |
I just wasn't sure if I should recommend the 1/3 race cam, the 1/2 race cam, or the 5/8 race cam instead...guess it depends on how much of the race he wants to lead???
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midtravelmidengine
Samba Member
Joined: August 06, 2009
Posts: 861
Location: Riverside, Ca
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| Posted: Wed Jun 04, 2014 8:31 am Post subject: |
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Ok, well after watching a couple of videos of your ROCK CRAWLER bug 
I can deffinently say that you will be much happier with the low rpm torque that the w110 will provide over the Bugpack cam you have!!
or you could probably also put in a fk-43 or 42 since you plan on running the 1.25 rockers. If you don't have the rockers already i would probably recommend getting some 1.3 -1.4's instead since the adjusters will be on the pushrod side of the rocker.
With your driving habits you will be able to "clutch" it less with the usable low end grunt that a smaller cam will provide.
Also the smaller cam with play better with the center mount carb. Make sure that your manifold has individual runners!
good luck!!
_________________
| modok wrote: |
| And I know you don't know because if you did you would know the reason for my knowing you didn't. |
| youngnstudly wrote: |
I just wasn't sure if I should recommend the 1/3 race cam, the 1/2 race cam, or the 5/8 race cam instead...guess it depends on how much of the race he wants to lead???
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sloboatnova
Samba Member
Joined: September 20, 2009
Posts: 989
Location: Broken Arrow, Ok
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| Posted: Wed Jun 04, 2014 8:34 am Post subject: |
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| midtravelmidengine wrote: |
In my opinion 263* duration is ALOT for a 1915 in a baja set-up. it would take roughly 10:1 compression to make that cam happy on 91 fuel. What CC did you order the heads at?
How do you do most of your driving? is it a Daily driver with the ocasional weekend trail rides, or dedicated toy etc? |
The heads are 58cc.
95% of my driving is offroad trails and hill climbs. With my 1600dp, I storm a hill climb at the top of 1st gear and sometimes (depending on the hill) I am out of power by the top forcing me to have to slip the clutch to get my rpm back up. This is where I want some lower RPM torque. The 3 rib that I will swap in later will certainly help, but so will low end torque.
I do have a heavy car as I carry 2 batteries, tools, and spare parts.
_________________
Ms Hoover, I glued my head to my shoulder.
3BT Baja build page
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=417564&highlight=3bt+baja |
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midtravelmidengine
Samba Member
Joined: August 06, 2009
Posts: 861
Location: Riverside, Ca
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| Posted: Wed Jun 04, 2014 8:40 am Post subject: |
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with 58cc in the head, at .040" deck height you will be at only 8.37 compression. 
even with a 110 cam i would suggest you shoot for 9.0, a 120 cam would be 9.5 to 1.
try to get the heads at 53cc if you havent already bought them. if you have if will cost you about $40 to get them fly cut to 53ccs
_________________
| modok wrote: |
| And I know you don't know because if you did you would know the reason for my knowing you didn't. |
| youngnstudly wrote: |
I just wasn't sure if I should recommend the 1/3 race cam, the 1/2 race cam, or the 5/8 race cam instead...guess it depends on how much of the race he wants to lead???
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Dan Ruddock
Samba Member
Joined: October 25, 2012
Posts: 3594
Location: Sarasota, in my adopted state of Florida
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| Posted: Wed Jun 04, 2014 9:33 am Post subject: |
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Webcam 163 and 1.25 arms. Ideal
Dan |
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sloboatnova
Samba Member
Joined: September 20, 2009
Posts: 989
Location: Broken Arrow, Ok
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| Posted: Wed Jun 04, 2014 11:29 am Post subject: |
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Ya, I already have the 1.25 rockers and 58cc heads. I'd hate to cut them down being as they are brand new DRD's.
I have already bought everything I need, even a cam I'm not gonna use now. lol The cam came with an engine I bought to rebuild, so not a big deal.
Thanks for your inputs.
_________________
Ms Hoover, I glued my head to my shoulder.
3BT Baja build page
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=417564&highlight=3bt+baja |
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midtravelmidengine
Samba Member
Joined: August 06, 2009
Posts: 861
Location: Riverside, Ca
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| Posted: Wed Jun 04, 2014 11:49 am Post subject: |
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| Dan Ruddock wrote: |
Webcam 163 and 1.25 arms. Ideal
Dan |
Web 163:
Advertised Duration --- 288*
Duration at .050"------- 250*
Lift with 1.25 rockers - .488"
Engle FK-42
Advertised Duration --- 275*
Duration at .050" ------ 246*
Lift with 1.25 rockers - .466"
With the less than optimal compression ratio i would still shoot for the fk-42 due to the lesser advertized duration. Otherwise they are very similar. Maybe even the Web 118 with 1.25's for a little compression bump? I don't have much experience with the Webs but i hear they work well.
_________________
| modok wrote: |
| And I know you don't know because if you did you would know the reason for my knowing you didn't. |
| youngnstudly wrote: |
I just wasn't sure if I should recommend the 1/3 race cam, the 1/2 race cam, or the 5/8 race cam instead...guess it depends on how much of the race he wants to lead???
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Dan Ruddock
Samba Member
Joined: October 25, 2012
Posts: 3594
Location: Sarasota, in my adopted state of Florida
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| Posted: Wed Jun 04, 2014 3:47 pm Post subject: |
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| midtravelmidengine wrote: |
| Dan Ruddock wrote: |
Webcam 163 and 1.25 arms. Ideal
Dan |
Web 163:
Advertised Duration --- 288*
Duration at .050"------- 250*
Lift with 1.25 rockers - .488"
Engle FK-42
Advertised Duration --- 275*
Duration at .050" ------ 246*
Lift with 1.25 rockers - .466"
With the less than optimal compression ratio i would still shoot for the fk-42 due to the lesser advertized duration. Otherwise they are very similar. Maybe even the Web 118 with 1.25's for a little compression bump? I don't have much experience with the Webs but i hear they work well. |
Ignore advertised duration. Webcam and Engle use a different method to come up with there advertised numbers. For a relevant comparison use the @ .050 numbers for a apples to apples.
Dan |
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sloboatnova
Samba Member
Joined: September 20, 2009
Posts: 989
Location: Broken Arrow, Ok
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| Posted: Fri Jun 06, 2014 8:51 am Post subject: |
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I've decided to go with the Engle W110. With the 58CC chambered heads, I can have a .043 dech height with 8.3 Compression ratio. I think thats as good as it gets with machining the heads. Right?
_________________
Ms Hoover, I glued my head to my shoulder.
3BT Baja build page
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=417564&highlight=3bt+baja |
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sloboatnova
Samba Member
Joined: September 20, 2009
Posts: 989
Location: Broken Arrow, Ok
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| Posted: Wed Jun 11, 2014 5:17 am Post subject: Deck height |
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So, I've measured my deck height and it is falling between .068 to .076 and this is without shims. I wanted it to be as close to .04 as possible to get my CR closer to 8.4. With this DH, the CR is gonna fall around 7.7-1 or 7.8-1.
What is the best option to reduce deck height?
_________________
Ms Hoover, I glued my head to my shoulder.
3BT Baja build page
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=417564&highlight=3bt+baja |
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Boolean
Samba Member
Joined: January 19, 2012
Posts: 1712
Location: Stockholm
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| Posted: Wed Jun 11, 2014 5:44 am Post subject: |
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1: Deck the case
2: Turn the cylinders down
3. Use a longer rod and shims. (Might mess up tin fitment and require longer pushrods)
Edit: The rods could also be modified with an offset bushing if your machinist feels like it.
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I strive for perfection. Excellence will not be tolerated!
Build thread here:
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=529379 |
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sloboatnova
Samba Member
Joined: September 20, 2009
Posts: 989
Location: Broken Arrow, Ok
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| Posted: Wed Jun 11, 2014 6:47 am Post subject: |
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So, If I go from a 5.4 rod to a 5.5 rod....
.071 - .1 (extra rod length) = -.029 (piston would stick out). If I could find a .070 shim, I would be in business (w/b .040 DH). I see .060 and .090, but not .070.
Can 2 shims be used, or is that a bad idea?
If I can buy rods to avoid machine work, I wouldn't mind that. I'm waiting for final assembly to buy push rods anyways.
_________________
Ms Hoover, I glued my head to my shoulder.
3BT Baja build page
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=417564&highlight=3bt+baja |
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58Dub
Samba Member
Joined: June 02, 2004
Posts: 1713
Location: Davison, MI
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| Posted: Wed Jun 11, 2014 6:59 am Post subject: |
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I would have the cyls shortened
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58 Beetle (now just a pile of parts in the corner)
60 Beetle (2221 turbo under construction)
70 Beetle Baja project |
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mcmscott
Samba Member
Joined: March 12, 2010
Posts: 4856
Location: sanger ca
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| Posted: Wed Jun 11, 2014 7:06 am Post subject: |
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I would first machine the pistons to achieve even deck height, Almost .010" difference is way too much. Then machine the bottom of the cylinders to achieve proper deck height. This is assuming your deck on the case is flat and even.
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68 Ghia
67 T-1
65 Notch
02 Mexican beetle
74 Thing
15 Long travel rail
07 Nomad
05 f-250 |
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mcmscott
Samba Member
Joined: March 12, 2010
Posts: 4856
Location: sanger ca
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| Posted: Wed Jun 11, 2014 8:00 am Post subject: |
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Sorry, after pistons are machined for even deck,
then you need to rebalance them
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There are no stupid questions, only stupid people,
68 Ghia
67 T-1
65 Notch
02 Mexican beetle
74 Thing
15 Long travel rail
07 Nomad
05 f-250 |
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