Correct colour for rims of export model... and pin stripes.

[pastellgreen]

Hello,

after reading several threads about this topic, at the end I never saw any result like "that is fact". So I want to resume a little, also with the help of our vintage photos.

For me it is still a hot question, because I've just bought a export split beetle from 12/1950. There is much original paint on the car (L11 pastel green), but I wonder why the rims, the bumper grooving and VW logos on the hubcaps are all black.

Do you have any idea?
So I just want to repaint these rims and also the bumper grooves and VW logos on hubcaps. But in which colour?

Let me talk only about the typical export model, as it came out of the factory line without any optional possibilities. Please ignore any faults of language, I'm german and it's difficult for me.

I think generally we can say, rims before 1951 were not been painted in two-tone colour, we have much evidence for this. On my search for the right colour, I saw a picture of this car from 1949:

Calling the owner of that car, he told me that he found a hint on the colour in the book "VW Käfer, ein Auto schreibt Geschichte" by U. v. Pidoll. Pidoll wrote to the

rim clolour of beetle from 1949:
outer hump: L11 pastelgreen
inner hump: L14 resedagreen.

I don't now the sources Pidoll refers to, but after seeing much vintage pictures, I doubt this theory.

Here, I will start with the first vintage pictures of non-crotch-coolers:

As you see, they all have only one colour for the rims. And I also would say, it is the same colour as the body colour!
The pictures 3,4 and 6 were made for VW in 1949 for the book "kleiner Wagen auf großer Fahrt", so they are "official" in some kind.

We can also see, the correct colour for the semaphore is black at that time!

But how came Pidoll to a two-tone colour at 1949? Perhaps it was meant, that for a car with body colour L11, the one-tone rim colour was L14? There are also people who say yes for one-tone colour, but that it was brighter than the body colour...

...continuing with pictures of brighter rims...

But these are crotch-cooler cars up from 1951!

There was a thread, where sombody showed his pastel green car with one-tone rims. This beetle was from 1952 and he found a source showing a paint like L16 or so. This green was more bright, especially in the shade of the fender. There was also another member showing his brown car with original paint rims that were also brighter than the body. And this is perhaps a thing, where we can say: Perhaps body colour on rims -1950, up from 1951 brighter one-tone colour or optional two-tone colour?

Here is also a hint from the VW advertising:

This car is obviously a 1951 with one-tone coloured rims. But the colour shines bright in the shade of the fender!

Back to one-tone colour up to 1950:

and some hints from the original manual from my 1950 split:

For me, the one-tone colour in body colour code until 12/1950 is obvious!

And what is this pinstripe theory for cars from 1948/ 1949?

I know several picutres from VW

For me, regarding at all the vintage pictures here, no split beetle left the factory with with pin-striped rims! Perhaps it was an option (did you ever saw a source for this option?) but there is no picture of a private car with these stripes!
And you also know, that VW advertises sometimes show something, that was not standart on the cars they realy sold.
Here is another pin stripe:

Did you ever see a beetle with these hubcaps?
But the rim has a pin stripe:

So, we only see these stripes on factory pictures!
And if they are there, the colour of the one-tone rim is - again - also the colour of the body!
And we see also, the pin stripe is in the middle of the inner hub. So, if someone want to show a car with these stripes (because dedicated to original), why do they applicate two stripes and/or out of the middle of the inner hump ?????

Car one:

Car two:

Car three:

Car four:

For today I would like to close with following assertion:

For export beetle until July 1949:

Different types of two-tone wheels, often a combination with the body colour and black L41 and also one-tone rims... does anybody have further information?

For export beetle from July 1949 until dec. 1950:

one-tone rim colour = body colour.

optional (if it was really to order):
One stripe in the middle of the inner hump!
Colour of that stripe is black L41 if the body/rim colour is a light colour (L11, L14, L21, L23, L50);
it is ivory L60 if the body/rim colour is darker (L13, L32, L51, L70).

For export beetle up from 1.jan. 1951:

two-tone rim colour.
The inner hump always is lichtbeige L75, The outer hump is body colour.

optional:
one-tone rim colour, similar to the body colour but brighter. (Perhaps L14 for a car L11, and L71 for a car L70 and so on...)

Semaphores are black L41, at least until 1950)

VW Logos on hubcaps and bumper grooves are body-coloured


So I'm looking forward your thoughts!

Moderator note:
Here is another thread for reference:
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=517154

[pastellgreen]

I forgot:

a VW split from 1950 in the VW museum in Wolfsburg:

One-tone coloured rims in body colour without pin stripes!

[noheb]

Interesting topic

I will agree with you that Dr. Ulrich v. Pidoll's book is not an entirely reliable source. But I also think you cannot trust vintage photos too much, as I believe back in the 1950's painting your wheels was quite common.

I don't agree that two-tone wheels of bodycolor and black is original for any model split.

Bear in mind, the following is to the best of my knowledge and observations, not 100% sure facts.

VW experimented a little with the wheel pinstriping, but I don't think it ever went into production cars.

Semaphores are black on standards. On export models maybe black on early 1949 exports, but that VERY quickly changed to bodycolor.

The VW logo in the hubcabs and the groove in the bumpers should be bodycolor, except if the car is L90 sand, then it should be red, and then so should the wheel center, the wheel rim is then bodycolor (sand).

I agree that early export splits had one-tone wheels, later had two-tone. When it changed, I am not certain, and I also don't think it changed for all car colors at the same time.

Early pastel green cars had wheels in a slightly lighter green color. (There was an article called "Sterne des Südens" in the magazine "VW Scene" many years ago with two Swedish splits, a medium brown and a pastel green. The owner of the pastel green left the spare tire in the original paint. I think I kept the article, can probably dig it out if needed.)
Early black cars had one-tone black wheels, but I think that changed to two-tone black and (L81 Parchment?)-white quite early.
Early medium brown cars had one-tone bodycolor wheels.
Early bordeaux red cars also had one-tone bodycolor wheels.

But yeah, this topic sure could use some further investigation

[bally]

Interesting topic - my 51 Kabriolet was originally two tone L71 and L72 - what colour should the wheels be?

I assume the bumper groove and hup caps should be the darker colour L72. Is that correct?

Should I be adding a pin stripe?

Cheers,

Dave

[noheb]

[bally]

Thank you.
What was the rule with painted bumper grooves - I note many are not painted. Was it an option or did all come with the groove painted at some point and what was the cut off?

I note the L71/L72 vert above does not have the groove painted - is that just personal choice or a correct detail for this particular car?

Dave

[noheb]

Well, in the book "Kleiner Wagen in Grosser Fahrt" from 1949 it looks like the bumper grooves are not painted, I don't know when that started, but the green unrestored car I posted pictures of is from January 1951 and it has the grooves painted. Also some 1950's I've seen in old pictures have the grooves painted. Your 1951 would have them painted for sure, but when it starts I couldn't say.

I saw pictures of a cabrio with the hub cab VW logos painted the lighter color? That would be a convertible only thing I guess...

[pastellgreen]

Picture 5 is from that book, but scanned. On the original, you can recognize the painted groove, the car is from 1949 and has body coloured rims and black semaphores!

[bally]

Thanks for the updates chaps,

Dave

[noheb]

Picture 5 with the car on the lift? I would say it is a pastel green car with lighter green wheels and unpainted bumper grooves..? Hard to tell... Take a look at page 106, definately not painted bumper grooves there...

[pastellgreen]

Yes, the car on the lift... for me, the rims are looking not more light than the body colour... and the ones on pp 175 and 181 and 194 too. These are definately in bodycolour. But with the grooves of bumper, I agree it is really hart to tell.

[noheb]

Yes, on page 175, 181 and (I think you mean) 195, here the entire wheels are all in bodycolor. The car on page 175 is seemingly black, the car on page 181 (The car seen from the window with a man waving at a woman inside) and page 195 (same car?) is probably a medium brown car. 1949 deluxe sedan Black, Medium brown and Bordeaux red cars all had wheels in bodycolor, only the Pastel green had wheels in a lighter green color. At least that's my theory

[noheb]

Or... maybe in early 1949 all wheels are bodycolor? Then sometime in 1949/1950 they become twotone, except the Pastel green that gets light green wheels?

1949 brochure:

1950 (Pastel green):

[pastellgreen]

Perhaps a lighter green... but why? Why all others rims should be in bodycolour, only green would be more lighter? Why purchasing an extra colour only for rims instead of using the colour you already have in your pistol?
And whay did VW restore a 1950 car, painting the wheels in body colour if it was not the right thing? (I mean the two pictures above from the museum)

Two-tone rims came definately in 1951.

[noheb]

Don't know why, but they did. Only question is when.

The cars at VW's museum are generally not all that 'correct'. Not saying that particular car isn't, but then maybe it's pre light green if that is an option..

[DDub]

[pastellgreen]

[Suboval]

Kamax's October 50 had L11 wheels.

http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=517154&highlight=kamax
_________________
It all works on paper.

There's two things we learn from history:
1.) History repeats itself.
2.) We don't learn from history.

[noheb]

[usariemen]