Can an average joe replace heater channels?

[J1]

The hypothesis
An average joe is able to perform heater channel, lower fender, and rocker replacement.

How this hypothesis will be tested
I'm gonna try it!

How this is different from all the other threads on heater channel replacement
Hopefully this will be more detailed and complete than existing threads. I’m guilty of taking a lot from the Samba without giving back so this is my way of atoning for those sins! The goal is not just to finish the project, but to also document it in detail, in one place, and fill in some information gaps.

I will also try to do this repair in a cost-effective way. I’d like to avoid expensive repro parts and tools so even more detail will probably be necessary to explain what I’m doing.

Possibly, the biggest difference is this…

My qualifications
None. And that’s kinda the point. I’m an average joe. I have no significant restoration or welding experience, nor do I have deep pockets. So I will ask the really really dumb questions that our restoration super heroes here may take for granted but the vast majority of ghia owners may be wondering.

I have a gift for describing things clearly. My really really dumb questions will hopefully follow up with really really clear explanations of how it was resolved. And of course, I will post lots of pics since we’re dealing with areas many of us may not have ever seen.

I lied a little though… although I'm an infant in the Samba world, I’m probably much more mechanical than the average man on the street. I don’t have much formal training in this type of stuff but over my 44 years have figured out how to make and fix plenty of things.

I’ve also been stick welding (SMAW) for a couple years (mainly fixing bicycles for fun) and have a couple welding mentors. And yes, the plan is to stick weld the heater channels and surrounding sheet metal. Don’t flame me yet, I will explain my insanity in a later post.

It’s certainly possible this thread will end abruptly as I tuck my tail between my legs and take this to someone who actually has a clue, but I am willing to take the chance and the worst case is I’m a little less wealthy and a lot more knowledgeable. If you're a bettin' person, at this point, I wouldn't be able to tell you where to put your money

The plan
Summer-Fall: Drive it around like crazy, enjoying it before it goes up on blocks. Fine tune my stick welding skills. Purchase parts and tools.

Winter: Begin surgery. It will be done body-on.

Spring: Enjoy a solid ghia or... have someone fix all my mistakes.

Final thoughts
This will not be a “here’s what I did” kind of thread. It will be more “here’s what I’m thinking of doing, what do you think” so real-time input will be greatly appreciated.

And since I have a full-time job, 3 little kids, and many commitments less exciting than a ghia, I suspect my progress will be very slow, but hopefully my level of detail in documenting the work will make up for my lack of speed. In the end, hopefully others will be able to follow along and do (or not do) what I did.

It'll be a few months before the real work starts, but I'll share more background leading up to it. Thx for reading!

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1971 Ghia coupe. Assume I know nothing and you'll be pretty darn close to the truth.

[squonk]

Good luck! I'll be bookmarking this thread.
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'71 Ghia cabriolet

[Danwvw]

I want to follow your thread, because I too have been wondering this! I would say No! But I am sure your not just your average Joe when it comes to your VW.
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1960 Beetle And 1679cc DP W-100 & Dual Zeniths!

[cagey.jg]

If you need help from another average Joe, I will gladly drive out to the LBC to help out.
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69 karmann ghia

[jpjohns]

If you are careful, mechanically inclined and have some welding skills it should go fine.
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-Jared

"Scrapyards are for quitters" - Beetlenut (a Samba member)

[ScottDoonan]

Sounds awesome, this is the motivation that keeps these cars alive. Very excited to watch the success you will have. The personal satisfaction will be very rewarding, but helping others (through photos and description) tackle these garage attainable fixes on their own will be priceless.
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If you take time to do it, do it right and don't be so damn cheap.....🤙🏻

1959 Karmann Ghia Cabriolet (current restoration)
1965 Porsche 356 SC coupe
1967 Volkswagen Convertible Beetle
1969 Porsche 911E Targa 3.2 twin plug
2006 Porsche 987 Rüf 3400K Prototype #2 of 2

[J1]

jpjohns, ScottDoonan, you guys are a couple of the "super heroes" I'm speaking of... thx so much for the words of encouragement! Input from folks like you will be priceless.

cagey, I haven't even made use of your first deed of generosity, your beam, so thx again for yet more generosity. I suspect there may be moments where more than 2 hands will be helpful so will def keep your offer in mind.

I'm glad this is not landing on deaf ears. It will motivate me to actually keep my word and start this project. Oh, I'm starting to feel the pressure, shoulda just kept my mouth shut!
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1971 Ghia coupe. Assume I know nothing and you'll be pretty darn close to the truth.

[TheFop]

I'm in the middle of doing mine right now but mine is a body off replacement which is good in some ways and bad in others.
My biggest challenge so far is that I've found that the areas on the A post and rear/front inner lower quarter where the heater channels are welded in are also brown and crunchy so I'm having to replace all that while I'm there.

I'm using the complete heater and dog leg sections from CIP1 so going the lazy way.

Good luck with this, I'll be really interested to see how you go and love the have a go attitude.....you'll be fine, if you can handle 3 little kids running around you can do anything.
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Rusty 61 RHD Karmann Ghia Coupe - Resto in progress....slowly
Stock 69 LHD Karmann Ghia Coupe - Driver
67 New Zealand Spec Beetle - Being rebuilt
63 New Zealand Spec Beetle - Going Baja!
86 T25 Westfalia - Family Fun car

[cagey.jg]

[kman]

With all of us idiots that have done it, an average joe should have no problem.

[J1]

[jpjohns]

I've always wondered what motivates people to do a full body off restoration. For me it's getting to all the hidden areas and making the process easier. I mean, you really can't replace a pan properly without removing the body, you'll never get to all the areas.

Should be a nice project.
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-Jared

"Scrapyards are for quitters" - Beetlenut (a Samba member)

[TheFop]

My motivation was just pure condition of the car, mine has rotten floor pans, heater channels and rockers (sills) plus a lot of other welding and plates that are needed so being able to get unhindered access to all areas is critical to getting the job right and getting all of the rust so it doesn't come back to haunt me.

This is how mine currently looks with the new heater channels in place but now welded in yet

This is why I replaced the heater channels, this is the good one of the two, there has historically been repairs with a significant plate welded the whole length and where the pans bolt on there was very little metal left...if this car had even a mild smash it would have collapsed and likely the seats would have detached themselves from the floor pans.

A good warning to anyone with a rusty car, it will be far worse than it looks at first glance.

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Rusty 61 RHD Karmann Ghia Coupe - Resto in progress....slowly
Stock 69 LHD Karmann Ghia Coupe - Driver
67 New Zealand Spec Beetle - Being rebuilt
63 New Zealand Spec Beetle - Going Baja!
86 T25 Westfalia - Family Fun car

[jelhardt]

Can't wait to see this thread develop. I've been putting off starting the same process and a clear and complete thread is why I've been waiting. Good luck!

[J1]

Repro heater channels are expensive
I don’t think this is a news flash. I’d claim this is the second most common reason someone would delay or simply not do heater channel replacement, with the first being the perceived difficulty of the job. Here is the range of the cost for just ONE repro heater channel (years 69-74):

On the low end… House of Ghia (summer 2013 catalog) has the 2 sides that you have to weld together for $110.
On the high end… KGPR’s one piece is $274.

Remember this does not include tax and shipping nor all the other repair panels you might need (eg, rocker skin, fenders, mudflap). So my theory is that if I can save a little here and a little there, in the end, the savings will add up. Btw, if your ghia is 56-68, apparently you still need to further modify these repro parts.

I realize these products are a great service and if money was no object, I’d just get these and be done with it. But others on the Samba have already blazed the trail of finding reasonable alternatives, so I will try following their lead first.

2”x3” tubing is cheap
Here is a thread I started in order to learn about other alternatives. It will link to yet more threads on this topic… http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?p=7116698

Bottom line is here’s how I plan to build the channel. Big thanks to djkeev who shared this idea and this photo…

I already purchased the most important component, a 5’ section of 2”x3” rectangular tubing at 1/8” thick for $16. I think I will need about 4.5' of this for one channel, so I've got a little extra as welding practice scrap. Anyway, the tube just looks like this...

I’m still going to need angle iron, couple flat bars, and I believe nuts (for mounting to the pan), but I expect the total to end up about $30 per channel. $30! Now that is in reach of the AJ. I actually think 1/16” would be a nice thickness, since 1/8” is way beefy for this application and adds a little extra weight.

For those in the Los Angeles area, I purchased it at Metal Depot in La Mirada... http://www.starscrap.com/sample-page/metal-depot Nice staff. This is the only metal supplier I’ve ever been to so I don’t know how they compare but my gut told me it was all reasonable. I was told some places have cutting fees, but these guys did it for free.

So this option compared to a repro part will save me AT LEAST $100 per side just on the channel alone. Those savings are going in the piggy bank for something like new wheels, which people will actually notice and appreciate! I know this approach will require more thinking and effort, but others have claimed it’s reasonable so I’m going with it.

Btw, if you decide to use a repro channel, hopefully this thread will still be useful since in the end we’ll all be cutting open and messing with the same sections.
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1971 Ghia coupe. Assume I know nothing and you'll be pretty darn close to the truth.

[J1]

[c21darrel]

I didnt read the other threads....
Are you going to weld in/on captive nuts for bolting to the shell? Tap the 1/8"?
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GhiaBuild
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=481184
1967 DC build
https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=693583&highlight=67+dc
Stop dead photo links! Post your photos to The Samba Gallery!

[ScottDoonan]

If anyone is interested this company and fasteners are a very good, safe, and economical option to blind hole threads/bolts. Personally speaking, I have used them for alot of things and will attest to their performance. They can and will work for channel steel rocker fabrication as mentioned and a lot of other things. This option is a lot better than getting one or two thread bite on thin materia, and utilzes the stregnth of the diameter and thread of the fastner. Check the size and stregnth chart for substraight being used.

http://www.cardinalcomponents.com/images/C845%20Rivnut%20Tool%20Manual.pdf
_________________
If you take time to do it, do it right and don't be so damn cheap.....🤙🏻

1959 Karmann Ghia Cabriolet (current restoration)
1965 Porsche 356 SC coupe
1967 Volkswagen Convertible Beetle
1969 Porsche 911E Targa 3.2 twin plug
2006 Porsche 987 Rüf 3400K Prototype #2 of 2

[J1]

[jpjohns]

See, IMO it's just better going with the KGP&R rockers as they are already assembled. I just can't see taking the time to fabricate. That's just me though.
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-Jared

"Scrapyards are for quitters" - Beetlenut (a Samba member)