Can an average joe replace heater channels?

[Murdlem]

I used the2 x 3 tubing on my Ghia, and it went great. As for the Pan bolts, I drilled slightly larger holes through the tubing at the designated locations. Then, I used a piece of flat steel, 2" wide, and the same length as the new heater channel, had it drilled for the proper spacing, and welded nuts on the back side of the flat bar. Then, just got longer stainless steel bolts, threaded up through the pan holes and into the steel bar, and when tightened, the steel bar "sandwiched" the bottom of the new heater channel. Total cost of my repair, less than $50.
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Eric Meldrum
68 Ghia

Check out my blog. https://vwlifenet.wordpress.com/

[CiderGuy]

[J1]

Glad to hear that people using the tube approach are satisfied with their decision. Will stay on that path. Now, onto some cosmetic stuff...

Repro rocker skin and lower fenders
First of all, I’d love input here about which retailers carry the best fitting and/or least expensive panels. Until then, here are the pieces I’m thinking about. I know other parts may be needed, but for now I’m just gonna focus on these visible sections that I've highlighted…

Here are prices from HoG, wich seem to be among the cheapest...
Section A = $42
Section B = $68
Section C = $55
Total = $165 (before taxes and shipping)

There may be another option for the rocker skin (section B) though. This is what HoG’s looks like and only the left 2/3 would be visible (section under the door, between the seams) and the right 1/3 would be covered by section C. And if you’re going the tube route, I’m thinking this extended rocker skin would not be necessary.

Instead, I ran across this rocker skin for $17 which is only that visible section under the door… http://www.rockauto.com/catalog/moreinfo.php?pk=4413807&cc=1284173 A little more info about this product is in this thread… http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=597499

So for the cosmetic pieces, this would bring down the cost to $127 per side (before taxes and shipping). Again, I’d love to hear which particular products others have used and whether they'd recommend or not.
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1971 Ghia coupe. Assume I know nothing and you'll be pretty darn close to the truth.

[c21darrel]

[cseay1]

Another thought on threads for the pan bolts if go with 2x3 tubing ..

Drill two holes, one for the bolt and one to plug weld the nut plate in place. I was thinking you could space them out on a piece of angle iron or smaller square tube held in place with clay or something sticky. Once in position, plug weld in place, then pull the temporary holder out.

http://www.jhpfasteners.com/1.25-single-weld-with-target-p-4683-l-en.html
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Chris

1968 Karmann Ghia coupe - build log here: Chris' 68 Ghia Build Log - From the Woods back to the Street

Stop dead photo links! Post your photos to The Samba Gallery!

[didget69]

^^^ Another option is to take a piece of - say, 1/4"thk x 3/4" wide flat stock by 'X' length - & drill/tap holes into said stock that match the hole pattern in floor pan, then plug-weld this strip into place in the main body rectangular rocker tubing.

bnc
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I never found the need to impress people with any mechanic certifications, trophies or track wins... unless it was for Mom to post on the refrigerator door.

[J1]

Thanks for the great "bolt-tube-to-pan" ideas! I think what I'm learning here is that there are plenty of viable options. Will think more about that after the fireworks... happy 4th! Please keep the input coming on anything that's been discussed so far.
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1971 Ghia coupe. Assume I know nothing and you'll be pretty darn close to the truth.

[J1]

My humble tool list

Now that it’s Independence Day and we may be partaking in fireworks, I figure I'll talk about FIRE! My welder and tools.

In my world AJ’s don’t have welders, compressors, blasting cabinets, and a garage full of automotive tools, so I’m sharing my humble tool list in case it helps other AJ’s get a sense of what this project might require.

All my welding-related gear is from Harbor Freight. Before you start doing this --> I realize discussing HF products is as divisive as religion and politics so let’s leave that one alone. In other words, to you red box and blue box owners, don’t judge me please

This is NOT a recommendation since I am woefully unqualified. I’m just being transparent with what I have. Stick welder (no gas required), helmet, grinder, cutting wheels, gloves, and electrodes. Out the door for about $280. Closer to $250 if you’re strategic about HF sales and coupons. I think I will need a few other tools as this project unfolds, but these should be the main ingredients...

Reviews for this little stick welder are excellent and many experienced welders are praising it on welding forums so I’m hopeful it’ll work out fine… http://www.harborfreight.com/80-amp-inverter-arc-welder-91110.html

A new brand name welder, especially those requiring gas, would have cost way more and would likely be more muscle than I need (no bridge building here). I looked around for used welders and gas tanks, but felt unqualified to assess whether they’d be worth buying. This HF welder seemed like a low-risk way to get into the welding game.

Why stick welding (SMAW) for this project, not MIG (GMAW) or TIG (GTAW)?

Simple answer is… because I already had the stick welder.

A more introspective answer is… because I like to make do with what I have (I still have a 5 year old dumb phone and a tube tv). The reason I (we) love the ghia – the elegance in its simplicity – is basically the same reason this stick welder is intriguing to me. It’s the size of a toaster, plugs into a regular household 110v outlet, does not require buying/leasing a gas tank, and may be sufficient for nearly 100% of the needs on a ghia (it claims to weld up to 18 gauge or 3/16” steel).

IMPORTANT: The downside of SMAW is it burns hotter than GMAW or GTAW, so there is a higher chance of burn-through and warping on thin metal. However, old school welders were welding sheet metal with stick way before other methods came into favor, so it’s not that it’s impossible, it apparently just requires more practice and getting all the variables dialed in (I’ll discuss my welder settings in a later post).

To be clear, again, I’m NOT recommending SMAW. I don’t even have personal experience with GMAW or GTAW to compare it to. I'm sure nearly all the experienced welders here would say go with GMAW despite the higher upfront effort and cost, since it'll be more forgiving. Unfortunately for me, I already crossed that bridge so I'm going with what I got. Thinking beyond the ghia, I just want to master the tools I already have.

This may end up being yet another "don't do what I did" moment, but I'm glad to be of service! OK, now I gotta get back to practicing. Btw, here are a couple 1-inch butt welds I did on thin sheet. Not too pretty yet, but it penetrated well without burning through...

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1971 Ghia coupe. Assume I know nothing and you'll be pretty darn close to the truth.

[mountainkowboy]

That's funny, I have a HF 180 "black" welder. I haggled with the manager and got it for $70.00 on there scratch and dent shelf. All my friends have given me crap about owning it until they weld with it.
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Chuck in Socal
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71 Super Convertible...DD
78 Honda CB750K
06 Honda CR-V (wifes)
63 IH Scout 80 "Beater"

[cracker666]

Get some 2nd sheet steel, some 8th nuts
drill a whole load of 9mmm holes with ample space to weld the nuts to the steel.
put a 8mm bolt through when welding the nuts to steel.
slice and dice into nuts with 10th of 2mm sheet either side of the nut.
you now have captive nuts for heater channels, made easy.
I have pics but you won't need them.

[weldvair]

I replaced my heater channels w/2" x 3' TUBING. I have seen a diagram
of this procedure but, It is not correct.

You do not need the spacer as shown.

My car is a vert & it is now less flexible that factory.

Don....PhD-mech engr(there are some pictures of my approach
on this site)

https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=594275&highlight=

[cracker666]

[J1]

How do I know the channels need to be replaced?

As stated and proven many times on the TS, the exterior bubbles on the rocker and lower fender is a pretty darn good indication. Maybe you don't have those yet (or a PO covered it up). Well, here is how I got a better idea what I was in for without having to make any cuts.

Take a peek into my '71 driver side heater vent. Hard to tell in this photo, but you can kinda make out the peeling rust. When I'm not lazy I'll pull the plastic piece off for a better view...

Now, this is where the channel meets the driver side hinge pillar. In that section where I pulled the carpet back, I was able to break through with my finger. Feeling along the interior corner of the channel along the entire doorway might be a good way to catch a really rusty channel...

And another great way I've found to see your channel without making any cuts is to unsnap your rear interior panel. This view is my driver side, looking down, so it's the rear section of the channel meeting up with the rear wheel well...

On top of that, when I poke a screwdriver up the rocker drain holes, I can feel pieces of rust. So I have found several visual bits of evidence before making my first cut. My driver side definitely needs some attention but my passenger side looked way better, so I'll probably just start with the driver side and see where that leads me.
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1971 Ghia coupe. Assume I know nothing and you'll be pretty darn close to the truth.

[team bogus]

"I already purchased the most important component, a 5’ section of 2”x3” rectangular tubing at 1/8” thick for $16."

Holy. I just got a quote from our Metal Superstores, 2 five foot sections of 2"x3" x 1/4" (so I can drill and tap to bolt body to pan) for a total of $136 cdn.
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1967 Karmann Ghia

[J1]

[team bogus]

Ya that does seem pretty pricey. Although yes, cheaper. And then get the rockers from Rock Auto. $18.36 Canadian each. Still under $200 for both sides.
My dog legs are also rusted out. Up here at cip1 the upper and lower sections are $114 each. Wish there was a cheaper way to go.

Banff is one hour from my place. Awesome little town!
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1967 Karmann Ghia

[NOVA Airhead]

It seems to me the cheap part of this job are the parts cost. If you are an average Joe I think you are making the task quite a bit harder going the fabricated route.

I also wonder over time if this is penny wise and dollar foolish. While I am sure you are not going into this for the money it would be nice if 20 years down the road you could recover some money on your car. I don't know if what you are planning with the tube steel is detectable but I could see people doing this and the value of their car is diminished down the road. The real cost here is the labor.

I would save more money and use the repro parts.

As for body on or off. Body on will help insure your gaps are right. It becomes much more difficult with the body off. Good Luck!
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Ghia Owner Emeritus

[J1]

[J1]

Quick update. I've been driving my ghia around, enjoying it before it goes under the knife. Now that it's thanksgiving and the signs of winter are here, I've been thinking about this experiment again.

HOWEVER, after realizing that I live in SoCal where winters (not summers) may be a better time to be enjoying an air-conditioner-less, vinyl-upholstered vehicle, I'm on the fence about starting this project. I've had this car less than a year and I think I deserve a couple more seasons before taking her off the street for who-knows-how-long.

Another factor is that I was supposed to be practicing on my stick welder this whole time, but I've been too busy doing things that require much less effort. My nearly-nonexistent welding skills is probably now fully nonexistent.

I hope this does not become one of those never-ending threads Maybe I'll just pass this problem on to my 9yo son. Anyway, hope everyone finds something to be thankful for this season!
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1971 Ghia coupe. Assume I know nothing and you'll be pretty darn close to the truth.

[c21darrel]