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Can an average joe replace heater channels?
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J1
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PostPosted: Fri Jul 17, 2015 5:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

c21darrel wrote:
Your gaps are really fine. I wouldnt give it another thought. Quit staring at it.

Thank you, sir. I needed to hear that! Will try to overcome my gap envy Laughing
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swavananda
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PostPosted: Fri Jul 17, 2015 9:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

You are doing really well. My project wasn't as bad as yours and you're really progressing on it.
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kgj
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PostPosted: Sat Jul 18, 2015 12:30 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yes black does hide door gap issues but yours look identical to the ones on my car now. And you have it mostly together.
Looking forward to the completion.
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kgj
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PostPosted: Sat Jul 18, 2015 12:38 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

.. And I wish I tidied my work area before I took that photo you used.
My wife's only comment was how tidy the garage of the orange Ghia was.
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J1
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PostPosted: Sat Jul 18, 2015 11:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I am done installing the rocker/channel to the B pillar. This also included welding the Y tube to the body and channel so this area is locked in. Still some finish work to be done where the B pillar meets the rocker but I'll take care of that when I install the new lower rear fender.

Step 19: Rebuild lambchop area
I actually did this in conjunction with rebuilding the rear wheel well since there were economies of scale, but I will discuss these separately for clarity sake. Fyi, I did these together because it requires the same brain... clean off rust, fabricate, weld, grind, MS.

First of all, here are the fabricated metal pieces. Top is for the rear wheel well (holes explained in next post). Bottom four are for the gap in front of the channel plate, front wall of the rocker, and the lambchop...
Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


So here is the before of the lambchop area. I MS'ed this area, as well as the inside of the lambchop...
Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


...and the fabbed metal in place. I've seen many variations of how the lambchop gets rebuilt so I didn't think too much about this. I THINK there are supposed to be drain holes, so I have them in place and there is a little angle to the floor so that water doesn't puddle inside...
Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


...and the final state, MS'ed and all ready to be covered with the new lower fender panel. I don't think there's anything special worth mentioning here. I just looked at photos of how this area is supposed to look and did what seemed reasonable and easy...
Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.

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Last edited by J1 on Mon Jul 20, 2015 10:59 am; edited 1 time in total
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J1
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PostPosted: Sat Jul 18, 2015 11:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Step 20: Rebuild rear wheel well area and install channel/rocker

The first photo in the above post shows the piece for the rear wheel well with a bunch of holes. Those are for plug welding that piece to the channel from inside the wheel well since the tabs on the channel would not be accessible for welding from inside the car. In other words, I'm plug welding the wheel well to the channel, not the channel to the wheel well, if that makes any sense...
Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


Anyway, here is the piece welded in...
Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


...and cleaned up and MS'ed. I haven't thought about the undercoating yet but it'll get done later...
Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


From the front, here is the before shot...
Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


...with the piece welded in, with the channel and rocker finally attached to something back here. Since that piece with the hole for the torsion leaves wasn't so bad, I just ground off the surface rust and scales in order to save myself the headache of wrestling with that notoriously inaccurate reproduction..
Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


...and cleaned up and MS'ed...
Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


Btw, during this entire project, I've been cleaning and MS'ing all the nooks and crannies I could get to since I may never have easy access again. One example is inside the rear fender where there were spots of rust starting and it feels SO refreshing to do this...
Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


So now all the innards are done! I can now count the remaining steps on just one hand. Here she is, waiting to be covered up and finished...
Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.
[/b]
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Last edited by J1 on Mon Jul 20, 2015 11:16 am; edited 2 times in total
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moogie32
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PostPosted: Sun Jul 19, 2015 5:12 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Applause Good job!
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J1
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 21, 2015 5:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I just noticed a blunder.

Here's how sambanistas cool karmann collected and CLKWRK rebuilt their lambchops...
Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


And here's mine. First thing I notice is that their lambchops look so much better and I need to work on better welds. But the other thing I notice is that my lambchop doesn't go low enough to cover the hole on the end of the rocker. What does that hole do? Do I need to re-do this?
Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.

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djway3474
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 21, 2015 10:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Looks like a drain hole to me
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J1
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 22, 2015 11:11 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

djway3474 wrote:
Looks like a drain hole to me

It seems weird though. If properly built, this is how water would travel...
rocker -----> thru rocker drainhole -----> into lambchop -----> thru lambchop drainhole -----> into outer fender -----> thru fender drainhole. Almost seems more straightforward the way I have it. Unless others have some wisdom on this. I'm leaving it as-is and moving on since I don't see much downside.

However, here's an old post I found while researching about this section. Amazing attention to detail on fabbing sections no one will ever see. Had I found this earlier, I may have tried this... or maybe not. This was made from flat sheet metal with some basic hand tools...
Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.

http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?p=3022129#3022129
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djway3474
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 22, 2015 11:14 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think in the olden days they used to call this baptism by fire LOL
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c21darrel
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 22, 2015 11:59 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Looks too high to be a drain hole, water would have to be over 1/2 inch deep before it drained.
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J1
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 22, 2015 2:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

If it wasn't clear already, I'm an idiot Embarassed I punched that hole remembering this photo. At the time, I thought it was too symmetrical to be a rust hole and that's what stayed in my brain, but I'm not seeing it in other restorations here. I am anxious to finish and this is an example of being too hasty. Well, if the water does get up 1/2" high in the rocker, I guess I'll be set Laughing...
Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


Moving on, I've been playing with the remaining outer panels and they are going to require more manipulation than I thought. So much for the light at the end of the tunnel. Some folks here seem to have found them to fit well, while others have resorted to profane words. I'm slowly but surely heading towards the latter camp. Brick wall
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Last edited by J1 on Wed Jul 22, 2015 3:29 pm; edited 1 time in total
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vstylist
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 22, 2015 3:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Just park on a slope. The water will drain out then.
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cool karmann collected
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 23, 2015 4:53 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hate to sound like the voice of doom but there's another thing you should check. Your lambchop rebuild doesn't taper in towards the bottom, i'm just hoping the lower edge of the 'boxy bit' doesn't hit the inner radius of the front fender repair section when you go to fit it.

the pic below hopefully indicates what I'm talking about

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J1
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 23, 2015 1:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Step 21: Install front-of-door panel

cool karmann collected wrote:
i'm just hoping the lower edge of the 'boxy bit' doesn't hit the inner radius of the front fender repair section when you go to fit it.

Thanks for the warning, but HA! This time I thought of that in advance. Here it is with a rough cut and it'll fit just fine...
Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


In this project, I've learned that the first solution that comes to mind is not always the best. Multiple times, after doing something, I came across other people's work and said, "I shoulda done that". So I'm gonna ask a question now so it doesn't happen again!

QUESTION: The lip of the repair panel where the seam is needs to be trimmed. Should I bend it in or cut it? And then does the seam require special treatment like seam sealer since it could be a water trap? I know this may seem like a minor detail, but hey, I've never done this before!
Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


Fyi, just like the repop rocker, this front-of-door panel and the torsion cover panel in the rear appear to have much less curvature than the original. But maybe that's ok since it'll match up to the repop rocker. This makes me think that had I changed the curvature of the rocker, I'd now have additional work to make these other panels match up.

Here is a piece of scrap metal formed to my right passenger side (original) compared to the repop front-of-door panel. We're talking about a good 2cm at the widest gap...
Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


And same thing with the torsion cover panel. I'll leave the commentary in my brain...
Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.

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c21darrel
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 23, 2015 1:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
The lip of the repair panel where the seam is needs to be trimmed. Should I bend it in or cut it?


If you bend it, that's a place water can start the rust process. I would trim to fit. That is just your cardboard template, right?
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 23, 2015 1:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I cut pounded beat and tweaked all the panels I used so you just make it work, that one panel I would cut to allow the surfaces to meet. I would also grind all welds flat as possible before painting with the rust preventer to not allow places for water or debris to collect
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J1
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 23, 2015 8:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Cool. I will trim to fit as flush as possible and just leave it like that, as opposed to welding along the seam or seam sealing or some other gymnastics.

c21darrel wrote:
That is just your cardboard template, right?

I guess the correct answer should be yes... but no. I've done that for other parts, but with the various little parts that need to match up, tuck in, blend together, etc, it seemed easier to just trim little by little.
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Mellow Yellow 74
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PostPosted: Fri Jul 24, 2015 12:20 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


I know that some people like my friend Pete on YouTube say you should cut repair panels to only use the bits you need to replace rather than cutting original metal to suit repair panels. But haven't you made this harder than it needs to be by cutting the panel?

The way you have done it you will need to do two vertical welds in addition to a horizontal weld whereas if you used the full repair panel (trimmed to the required height) you would only need to do the one horizontal weld plus the spot welds at the bottom.

Note that this is not a criticism, just a question - I am about to do the heater channels on my 62 and your thread has been really good.
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