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Can an average joe replace heater channels?
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J1
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PostPosted: Sun Jul 26, 2015 9:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Mellow Yellow 74 wrote:
But haven't you made this harder than it needs to be by cutting the panel?

The way you have done it you will need to do two vertical welds in addition to a horizontal weld whereas if you used the full repair panel (trimmed to the required height) you would only need to do the one horizontal weld plus the spot welds at the bottom.

Note that this is not a criticism, just a question - I am about to do the heater channels on my 62 and your thread has been really good.

I don't mind my mistakes or inefficiencies being pointed out (in fact I'm asking for them), so thx for doing that. I've got nothing to hide!

I cut out just the center section so that the body didn't "release" in case it was in tension. In fact, this happened to the rear fender which I think contributed to my door gap headaches. This is probably a lesser issue in an undamaged car, but mine has been in a fender bender or two. I was also thinking that replacing just the center section would eliminate having to mess with the contour on the patch panel and door gap but that is probably not a big deal. I will probably do as you say and cut the whole thing off when I replace the other channel, because fitting has definitely taken me way more time than the actual welding. There is definitely an art to fitting panels.

Anyway, here is the front-of-door panel finally fitted and tacked in...
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And welded in...
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The backside showing full penetration, though I think I can get by laying down less metal. I'm getting more comfortable slowly figuring out the little nuances of how long to hold down the trigger, where to aim, when to let the metal cool, etc. Fun fun fun...
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So this is where she stands now and onto the rear fender...
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Last edited by J1 on Sun Jul 26, 2015 10:59 pm; edited 1 time in total
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J1
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PostPosted: Sun Jul 26, 2015 9:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Step 22: Install rear fender panel

QUESTION: Before I close this section off for good, I have to put those "mufflers" back around the Y tube. Should I put the old ones back on or should I buy something to replace it? What's its function anyway?

Here's an old photo (boy, that feels ages ago) and it's that thing tied with zip ties around the Y tube...
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cool karmann collected
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PostPosted: Mon Jul 27, 2015 4:51 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

They're sound deadening and from what I can remember they can be fitted right at the end. There's a nice view of them halfway down page 1 of my HC thread posted by member djway3474
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Bloku
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PostPosted: Mon Jul 27, 2015 9:59 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I thought zip tied things were "mufflers" so the engine noise that comes through the heaters are less
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J1
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PostPosted: Mon Jul 27, 2015 10:35 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'd like to put these on before welding in the panel, otherwise it'd be very hard to access via the rear seat.

The fibrous part on my original ones are breaking apart and making a mess. I don't think I've ever seen replacements for sale. What could I replace these with? Seems like it'd have to be some kind of sound deadening and heat-proof material.
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PostPosted: Mon Jul 27, 2015 11:07 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

The y tubes in that area have a lot of holes in them. These are basically wrapping packs to absorb the noise As this is essentially a muffler. Go to a hardware store and look for a thin Fiberglas aluminum backed insulation for pipes or ducts. If you can't find that since the temperature is low enough here you may just find a jute padding and wrap that around.
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J1
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 29, 2015 10:34 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

djway3474 wrote:
Go to a hardware store and look for a thin Fiberglas aluminum backed insulation for pipes or ducts. If you can't find that since the temperature is low enough here you may just find a jute padding and wrap that around.

Original material is like thick wool that I'm guessing allows air to percolate through but deadens the sound. I found some foil-backed pipe insulation, but it was dense foam that seems to restrict air much more. So I'm sticking with the original and hoping I don't breathe in too much of the particles. But I did learn a nice scrabble word... jute!

Well, the rear fender panel is on. Once again, fitting was a challenge. It may have been the panel itself combined with how the channel and rocker was put in. In my case, when the panel was matched at the seam, the rear edge at the wheel well did not match up (in other words, the panel was too long). So pull out the wrench, hammer and wood block and do 100+ trial fits.

Btw, as opposed to the front fender where using the full patch panel might be easier than trying to preserve original metal, I think the rear fender would be easier preserving as much of the the corner at the B pillar as possible. Otherwise, you're adding work to rebuild the piece for the panel lip to lap on top of. Anyway, trial fitting...
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Stitching...
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And in. Oh, btw the panel came in gray primer and I used a flap disk to take it all off since people here seem to claim it is cheap. I will MS it later...
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Theoretically, I think it is road-ready, so after tying up a few loose ends I may put it back on the ground this weekend. I can deal with cosmetics later, I'm just itching to drive! Uh, but I guess that means I have to now figure out why fuel is not flowing to the motor...
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 29, 2015 10:52 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Congrats J1. Looks like your practice welding is paying off, welds look good. A bit of cutting and grinding will clean up the lower rocker and its going to look fine. Only one problem, I just cant consider you an AVERAGE JOE anymore. Nice work. Very Happy
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J1
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 29, 2015 11:19 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

c21darrel wrote:
Congrats J1.

Couldn't have done it without input and encouragement from you and others. But the congrats are still a bit premature. I still have a little more fabbing, welding, panel beating, and lots more grinding to do... gotta make sure I don't get complacent and fall into the false summit syndrome!

I've also never used filler before so that will be another learning curve for me. Speaking of which, I had the joy of grinding off filler on my rear fender... snow in SoCal!
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J1
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 29, 2015 2:43 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Speaking of grinding and filler...

QUESTION: I'm starting to grind down the welds and quickly realized I have to be careful. Seems some people use a thick-ish grinding wheel (not a flap disk or cutting wheel) and stop early so as not to grind down the surrounding metal too thin. Then use filler. I plan to do this, but how far should I go??

Bottom third of this picture shows where I used a flap disk and tried to get perfectly smooth and then said "uh oh". Middle third is with a grinding wheel and requires a bit of precision. Top third is again with a grinding wheel but don't need to be so careful. I'm thinking I should shoot for the middle third, maybe even a little closer in order to minimize filler????
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 29, 2015 3:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I have used just the edge of a well used cutting wheel, to grind down just the weld itself.
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 29, 2015 4:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

It needs to be flat....or you will be buying a lot of filler Embarassed Flatter = flush.

I use a combination of whatever works. Sometimes I cant fit the grinder w/ flap disk in an area, then i'll reach for an air tool with a fat 3/16 ish cutoff wheel and use it directly on the weld only. If you are ever uncertain where you are...spray a quick shot of 97 cent walmart flat black spray paint on the area. Next get a piece of 100 grit on a flat stick and sand over questionable area. You will quickly see how far/close you are. Gotta be flat man. Very Happy

This pic...not there yet but its getting close, about 85% done...another few passes...the guide coat will always tell the truth.
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 29, 2015 9:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

you need one of these.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Vintage-Proto-Adjustable-Auto-Body-Metal-File-Rasp-Extra-Rasp-/171874791662
Do a little searching on their use. You can find them on ebay or get new ones from eastwood/zoro/other places.
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 30, 2015 7:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I use an air cutting disc tool with the thin wheel.
You concentrate just on the bead and move around. You wont build up heat and it cuts real fast.
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J1
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PostPosted: Sun Aug 02, 2015 10:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I got the welds down by using a 1/8" or 3/16" thick grinding wheel on my grinder. Just got up close and carefully worked it down to this and I plan to use a sanding block to smooth it out more. I will address the filler and paint in a separate step...
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Step 23: Rebuild mudguard

This is the last piece of metal to be installed. It had to be removed in order to replace the front-of-door panel so I decided to just patch up this section and a couple others...
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Sorry no "after" photos but mine didn't require much thought. Though it was a simple job, it does take time and effort so I have this as a separate step. I still have to rustproof it and install the rubber seal, but I slapped the mudguard back on so that I could...

Step 24: Jack it down and take it for a drive!
I couldn't resist! This is the point where it may not be pretty, but it's structurally done, so I had to get it on the road for the first time in over 4 months. Oh joy! What a blast it was driving with nowhere to go, barely able to hear my son next to me, and sweating on vinyl seats in the SoCal sun.

To get it started though, I had to replace the fuel filter and next time it's up in the air, I'll run the motor periodically and hopefully have dealt with the rust in the gas tank...
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Back on the ground. It won't be as ergonomically pleasant to work on this now, but I'm willing to pay the price to be able to drive as I'm finalizing it. And in fact, as I ride around, I'm gonna consider this a little "battle scar" and wear it with pride!
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Last edited by J1 on Sun Aug 02, 2015 10:54 pm; edited 1 time in total
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J1
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PostPosted: Sun Aug 02, 2015 10:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Step 25: Apply filler

I've never used filler before. Would appreciate input whether these steps sound about right...

1. Get down to bare metal. I think I'll have to take the paint off a wider area surrounding the welds.

2. Apply Evercoat Lite Weight. Looks like I should avoid Bondo. Evercoat Rage Gold seems popular, but it is more expensive and only comes in a 1-gallon size. I'm hearing the "Lite Weight" product is plenty good too and also comes in a 1 quart can which seems sufficient for this project, from Auto Body Toolmart http://www.autobodytoolmart.com/evercoat-lite-non-clogging-lightweight-filler-p-10287.aspx ...
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3. For primer, I have Masterseries Silver and Spray Max 2n1 Etch Primer Filler (from another project) http://www.apstowerpaint.com/product/2n1-etch-primer-filler/4 Would one be preferable over another for this application?

Btw, I'll be using Spray Max 1k acrylic enamel spray paint, color matched to my Adriatic Blue. The current paint condition is not good in certain sections so I don't mind the rattle can and plan to embrace the fading and splotches.
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PostPosted: Sun Aug 02, 2015 11:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Epoxy prime coat on the metal. get the rage gold. You use way more than you think you will.
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PostPosted: Mon Aug 03, 2015 3:53 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Congratulations. I'm glad to see it back on its wheels.
Well done on a super informative thread too.
Do you mind me asking how many hours you think you put into the job so far?
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PostPosted: Mon Aug 03, 2015 10:45 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

djway3474 wrote:
get the rage gold. You use way more than you think you will.

Once a can of filler is open, does it go bad or would I be able to use it 1-2 years later? I don't want to buy a gallon, use a fraction of it and then have to throw it away. And I'd estimate I have about 6 linear feet of welds and the area is pretty straight... so a quart of filler should be fine, no?

kgj wrote:
Do you mind me asking how many hours you think you put into the job so far?

I will definitely summarize the hours when I'm done, but to get the car road-worthy, it took me 118 hours Shocked Keep in mind I worked slowly, being a rookie, having to think thru all the possible options and implications of every cut and decision. Hopefully this thread will help others do it much faster... and smarter.

I also had to do it in MANY 1-hour sessions, as opposed to full days and I'd argue you lose a lot of momentum and efficiency. And a big chunk was for the preventable work of fabbing the dogleg and messing with the B pillar door gap, which you've already got nailed. When I do my other channel, I plan to do a few things differently (which I've tried to point out throughout this thread) and I'm guessing I can do it in 50-75% of the time. I guess the cup-half-full perspective of having to replace 2 channels is that you get a second chance Laughing
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PostPosted: Mon Aug 03, 2015 11:38 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Concur w/ Dwayne, you will use way more filler than you think...then you just sand it all off Crying or Very sad A gallon can wont dry up, it needs the catalyst to harden.
IMO the MS takes the place of epoxy prime DTM. I would follow MS with filler and then with 2K sanding primer, guide coat, 100grit,220 grit, 400 grit and paint.
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