Author |
Message |
J1 Samba Member
Joined: February 10, 2014 Posts: 698 Location: SoCal
|
Posted: Sun Jul 26, 2015 9:35 pm Post subject: |
|
|
Mellow Yellow 74 wrote: |
But haven't you made this harder than it needs to be by cutting the panel?
The way you have done it you will need to do two vertical welds in addition to a horizontal weld whereas if you used the full repair panel (trimmed to the required height) you would only need to do the one horizontal weld plus the spot welds at the bottom.
Note that this is not a criticism, just a question - I am about to do the heater channels on my 62 and your thread has been really good. |
I don't mind my mistakes or inefficiencies being pointed out (in fact I'm asking for them), so thx for doing that. I've got nothing to hide!
I cut out just the center section so that the body didn't "release" in case it was in tension. In fact, this happened to the rear fender which I think contributed to my door gap headaches. This is probably a lesser issue in an undamaged car, but mine has been in a fender bender or two. I was also thinking that replacing just the center section would eliminate having to mess with the contour on the patch panel and door gap but that is probably not a big deal. I will probably do as you say and cut the whole thing off when I replace the other channel, because fitting has definitely taken me way more time than the actual welding. There is definitely an art to fitting panels.
Anyway, here is the front-of-door panel finally fitted and tacked in...
And welded in...
The backside showing full penetration, though I think I can get by laying down less metal. I'm getting more comfortable slowly figuring out the little nuances of how long to hold down the trigger, where to aim, when to let the metal cool, etc. Fun fun fun...
So this is where she stands now and onto the rear fender...
_________________ 1971 Ghia coupe. Assume I know nothing and you'll be pretty darn close to the truth.
Last edited by J1 on Sun Jul 26, 2015 10:59 pm; edited 1 time in total |
|
Back to top |
|
|
J1 Samba Member
Joined: February 10, 2014 Posts: 698 Location: SoCal
|
Posted: Sun Jul 26, 2015 9:44 pm Post subject: |
|
|
Step 22: Install rear fender panel
QUESTION: Before I close this section off for good, I have to put those "mufflers" back around the Y tube. Should I put the old ones back on or should I buy something to replace it? What's its function anyway?
Here's an old photo (boy, that feels ages ago) and it's that thing tied with zip ties around the Y tube...
_________________ 1971 Ghia coupe. Assume I know nothing and you'll be pretty darn close to the truth. |
|
Back to top |
|
|
cool karmann collected Samba Member
Joined: November 23, 2008 Posts: 631 Location: Oxford, U.K.
|
Posted: Mon Jul 27, 2015 4:51 am Post subject: |
|
|
They're sound deadening and from what I can remember they can be fitted right at the end. There's a nice view of them halfway down page 1 of my HC thread posted by member djway3474 |
|
Back to top |
|
|
Bloku Expert Noob
Joined: April 09, 2013 Posts: 559 Location: Tulsa/Jenks Oklahoma
|
Posted: Mon Jul 27, 2015 9:59 am Post subject: |
|
|
I thought zip tied things were "mufflers" so the engine noise that comes through the heaters are less _________________ 1971 Karmann Ghia
1975 Porsche 914
-----
1975 BMW 2002
1976 BMW 2002 (Bored and Stroked w/ 5-Speed)
1981 BMW E21
1986 Toyota 4Runner (Dead engine and trans)
1989 Toyota 4x4 PU
1994 BMW E36 (Daily) |
|
Back to top |
|
|
J1 Samba Member
Joined: February 10, 2014 Posts: 698 Location: SoCal
|
Posted: Mon Jul 27, 2015 10:35 am Post subject: |
|
|
I'd like to put these on before welding in the panel, otherwise it'd be very hard to access via the rear seat.
The fibrous part on my original ones are breaking apart and making a mess. I don't think I've ever seen replacements for sale. What could I replace these with? Seems like it'd have to be some kind of sound deadening and heat-proof material. _________________ 1971 Ghia coupe. Assume I know nothing and you'll be pretty darn close to the truth. |
|
Back to top |
|
|
djway3474 Samba Member
Joined: August 19, 2011 Posts: 2576 Location: The Real NDK So Cal
|
Posted: Mon Jul 27, 2015 11:07 am Post subject: |
|
|
The y tubes in that area have a lot of holes in them. These are basically wrapping packs to absorb the noise As this is essentially a muffler. Go to a hardware store and look for a thin Fiberglas aluminum backed insulation for pipes or ducts. If you can't find that since the temperature is low enough here you may just find a jute padding and wrap that around. |
|
Back to top |
|
|
J1 Samba Member
Joined: February 10, 2014 Posts: 698 Location: SoCal
|
Posted: Wed Jul 29, 2015 10:34 am Post subject: |
|
|
djway3474 wrote: |
Go to a hardware store and look for a thin Fiberglas aluminum backed insulation for pipes or ducts. If you can't find that since the temperature is low enough here you may just find a jute padding and wrap that around. |
Original material is like thick wool that I'm guessing allows air to percolate through but deadens the sound. I found some foil-backed pipe insulation, but it was dense foam that seems to restrict air much more. So I'm sticking with the original and hoping I don't breathe in too much of the particles. But I did learn a nice scrabble word... jute!
Well, the rear fender panel is on. Once again, fitting was a challenge. It may have been the panel itself combined with how the channel and rocker was put in. In my case, when the panel was matched at the seam, the rear edge at the wheel well did not match up (in other words, the panel was too long). So pull out the wrench, hammer and wood block and do 100+ trial fits.
Btw, as opposed to the front fender where using the full patch panel might be easier than trying to preserve original metal, I think the rear fender would be easier preserving as much of the the corner at the B pillar as possible. Otherwise, you're adding work to rebuild the piece for the panel lip to lap on top of. Anyway, trial fitting...
Stitching...
And in. Oh, btw the panel came in gray primer and I used a flap disk to take it all off since people here seem to claim it is cheap. I will MS it later...
Theoretically, I think it is road-ready, so after tying up a few loose ends I may put it back on the ground this weekend. I can deal with cosmetics later, I'm just itching to drive! Uh, but I guess that means I have to now figure out why fuel is not flowing to the motor...
_________________ 1971 Ghia coupe. Assume I know nothing and you'll be pretty darn close to the truth. |
|
Back to top |
|
|
c21darrel Samba Member
Joined: January 22, 2009 Posts: 8206 Location: San Dimas
|
|
Back to top |
|
|
J1 Samba Member
Joined: February 10, 2014 Posts: 698 Location: SoCal
|
Posted: Wed Jul 29, 2015 11:19 am Post subject: |
|
|
c21darrel wrote: |
Congrats J1. |
Couldn't have done it without input and encouragement from you and others. But the congrats are still a bit premature. I still have a little more fabbing, welding, panel beating, and lots more grinding to do... gotta make sure I don't get complacent and fall into the false summit syndrome!
I've also never used filler before so that will be another learning curve for me. Speaking of which, I had the joy of grinding off filler on my rear fender... snow in SoCal! _________________ 1971 Ghia coupe. Assume I know nothing and you'll be pretty darn close to the truth. |
|
Back to top |
|
|
J1 Samba Member
Joined: February 10, 2014 Posts: 698 Location: SoCal
|
Posted: Wed Jul 29, 2015 2:43 pm Post subject: |
|
|
Speaking of grinding and filler...
QUESTION: I'm starting to grind down the welds and quickly realized I have to be careful. Seems some people use a thick-ish grinding wheel (not a flap disk or cutting wheel) and stop early so as not to grind down the surrounding metal too thin. Then use filler. I plan to do this, but how far should I go??
Bottom third of this picture shows where I used a flap disk and tried to get perfectly smooth and then said "uh oh". Middle third is with a grinding wheel and requires a bit of precision. Top third is again with a grinding wheel but don't need to be so careful. I'm thinking I should shoot for the middle third, maybe even a little closer in order to minimize filler????
_________________ 1971 Ghia coupe. Assume I know nothing and you'll be pretty darn close to the truth. |
|
Back to top |
|
|
CiderGuy Samba Member
Joined: December 23, 2013 Posts: 1351 Location: Bucks County, Pa
|
Posted: Wed Jul 29, 2015 3:05 pm Post subject: |
|
|
I have used just the edge of a well used cutting wheel, to grind down just the weld itself. _________________ ----------------------
Cars Currently Owned:
1970 Karmann Ghia Coupe
1973 Karmann Ghia Coupe - Project car for sale
1970 Karmann Ghia Convertible (Body off restoration)
Timing is everything |
|
Back to top |
|
|
c21darrel Samba Member
Joined: January 22, 2009 Posts: 8206 Location: San Dimas
|
Posted: Wed Jul 29, 2015 4:49 pm Post subject: |
|
|
It needs to be flat....or you will be buying a lot of filler Flatter = flush.
I use a combination of whatever works. Sometimes I cant fit the grinder w/ flap disk in an area, then i'll reach for an air tool with a fat 3/16 ish cutoff wheel and use it directly on the weld only. If you are ever uncertain where you are...spray a quick shot of 97 cent walmart flat black spray paint on the area. Next get a piece of 100 grit on a flat stick and sand over questionable area. You will quickly see how far/close you are. Gotta be flat man.
This pic...not there yet but its getting close, about 85% done...another few passes...the guide coat will always tell the truth.
_________________ GhiaBuild
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=481184
1967 DC build
https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=693583&highlight=67+dc
Stop dead photo links! Post your photos to The Samba Gallery! |
|
Back to top |
|
|
jbsx127 Samba Member
Joined: February 18, 2015 Posts: 83 Location: FWB, FL
|
|
Back to top |
|
|
djway3474 Samba Member
Joined: August 19, 2011 Posts: 2576 Location: The Real NDK So Cal
|
Posted: Thu Jul 30, 2015 7:47 pm Post subject: |
|
|
I use an air cutting disc tool with the thin wheel.
You concentrate just on the bead and move around. You wont build up heat and it cuts real fast. |
|
Back to top |
|
|
J1 Samba Member
Joined: February 10, 2014 Posts: 698 Location: SoCal
|
Posted: Sun Aug 02, 2015 10:25 pm Post subject: |
|
|
I got the welds down by using a 1/8" or 3/16" thick grinding wheel on my grinder. Just got up close and carefully worked it down to this and I plan to use a sanding block to smooth it out more. I will address the filler and paint in a separate step...
Step 23: Rebuild mudguard
This is the last piece of metal to be installed. It had to be removed in order to replace the front-of-door panel so I decided to just patch up this section and a couple others...
Sorry no "after" photos but mine didn't require much thought. Though it was a simple job, it does take time and effort so I have this as a separate step. I still have to rustproof it and install the rubber seal, but I slapped the mudguard back on so that I could...
Step 24: Jack it down and take it for a drive!
I couldn't resist! This is the point where it may not be pretty, but it's structurally done, so I had to get it on the road for the first time in over 4 months. Oh joy! What a blast it was driving with nowhere to go, barely able to hear my son next to me, and sweating on vinyl seats in the SoCal sun.
To get it started though, I had to replace the fuel filter and next time it's up in the air, I'll run the motor periodically and hopefully have dealt with the rust in the gas tank...
Back on the ground. It won't be as ergonomically pleasant to work on this now, but I'm willing to pay the price to be able to drive as I'm finalizing it. And in fact, as I ride around, I'm gonna consider this a little "battle scar" and wear it with pride!
_________________ 1971 Ghia coupe. Assume I know nothing and you'll be pretty darn close to the truth.
Last edited by J1 on Sun Aug 02, 2015 10:54 pm; edited 1 time in total |
|
Back to top |
|
|
J1 Samba Member
Joined: February 10, 2014 Posts: 698 Location: SoCal
|
Posted: Sun Aug 02, 2015 10:49 pm Post subject: |
|
|
Step 25: Apply filler
I've never used filler before. Would appreciate input whether these steps sound about right...
1. Get down to bare metal. I think I'll have to take the paint off a wider area surrounding the welds.
2. Apply Evercoat Lite Weight. Looks like I should avoid Bondo. Evercoat Rage Gold seems popular, but it is more expensive and only comes in a 1-gallon size. I'm hearing the "Lite Weight" product is plenty good too and also comes in a 1 quart can which seems sufficient for this project, from Auto Body Toolmart http://www.autobodytoolmart.com/evercoat-lite-non-clogging-lightweight-filler-p-10287.aspx ...
3. For primer, I have Masterseries Silver and Spray Max 2n1 Etch Primer Filler (from another project) http://www.apstowerpaint.com/product/2n1-etch-primer-filler/4 Would one be preferable over another for this application?
Btw, I'll be using Spray Max 1k acrylic enamel spray paint, color matched to my Adriatic Blue. The current paint condition is not good in certain sections so I don't mind the rattle can and plan to embrace the fading and splotches. _________________ 1971 Ghia coupe. Assume I know nothing and you'll be pretty darn close to the truth. |
|
Back to top |
|
|
djway3474 Samba Member
Joined: August 19, 2011 Posts: 2576 Location: The Real NDK So Cal
|
Posted: Sun Aug 02, 2015 11:14 pm Post subject: |
|
|
Epoxy prime coat on the metal. get the rage gold. You use way more than you think you will. |
|
Back to top |
|
|
kgj Samba Member
Joined: February 25, 2013 Posts: 418 Location: Uk, Cornwall
|
Posted: Mon Aug 03, 2015 3:53 am Post subject: |
|
|
Congratulations. I'm glad to see it back on its wheels.
Well done on a super informative thread too.
Do you mind me asking how many hours you think you put into the job so far? _________________ 1958 coupe |
|
Back to top |
|
|
J1 Samba Member
Joined: February 10, 2014 Posts: 698 Location: SoCal
|
Posted: Mon Aug 03, 2015 10:45 am Post subject: |
|
|
djway3474 wrote: |
get the rage gold. You use way more than you think you will. |
Once a can of filler is open, does it go bad or would I be able to use it 1-2 years later? I don't want to buy a gallon, use a fraction of it and then have to throw it away. And I'd estimate I have about 6 linear feet of welds and the area is pretty straight... so a quart of filler should be fine, no?
kgj wrote: |
Do you mind me asking how many hours you think you put into the job so far? |
I will definitely summarize the hours when I'm done, but to get the car road-worthy, it took me 118 hours Keep in mind I worked slowly, being a rookie, having to think thru all the possible options and implications of every cut and decision. Hopefully this thread will help others do it much faster... and smarter.
I also had to do it in MANY 1-hour sessions, as opposed to full days and I'd argue you lose a lot of momentum and efficiency. And a big chunk was for the preventable work of fabbing the dogleg and messing with the B pillar door gap, which you've already got nailed. When I do my other channel, I plan to do a few things differently (which I've tried to point out throughout this thread) and I'm guessing I can do it in 50-75% of the time. I guess the cup-half-full perspective of having to replace 2 channels is that you get a second chance _________________ 1971 Ghia coupe. Assume I know nothing and you'll be pretty darn close to the truth. |
|
Back to top |
|
|
c21darrel Samba Member
Joined: January 22, 2009 Posts: 8206 Location: San Dimas
|
|
Back to top |
|
|
|