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Light at the end of a halfa$$ rebuild
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Danwvw
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PostPosted: Sat Jul 19, 2014 9:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I will be watching for your success! Last time I did my engine I had to pull it back out after a couple of days and do a head repair. Takes a lot of perseverance for me.
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Evilrift
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PostPosted: Sun Jul 20, 2014 2:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

No luck so far. It turns over but doesn't even try to fire up. Sort of like its not getting fuel, or spark, or air.
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busdaddy
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PostPosted: Sun Jul 20, 2014 3:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Evilrift wrote:
Sort of like its not getting fuel, or spark, or air.

So what is it?, try a spoonfull of gas down the intake and see if it coughs and tries to fire, if it doesn't then start looking at the ignition system, of course this assumes you have compression.
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Evilrift
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PostPosted: Sun Jul 20, 2014 4:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I tried the spoonful of gas and nothing still just cranks and turns over.

I'm not sure I have my distributor wires on right. I've read a bunch of how to find TDC threads and such which get very confusing. I pulled spark plug number 1 and put my hand over it, when I was turning the motor I felt it push my hand way and turned a slight bit more to make sure the mark on the fan (which is in the right spot according to Ratwell) was lined up to 0.

When looking at the rotor it was pointing towards between cylinders 3/4. So I put spark plug wire 1 toward the front left, then clockwise 4, 3,2. I think this is correct.
14
23

Originally I had it completely wrong like this-
41
32

But still not start.
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Tcash
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PostPosted: Sun Jul 20, 2014 5:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

This is the firing order.
Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


The notch in the lip the dist. cap sits on, is number one. Put the #1 plug wire on there.

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


Last edited by Tcash on Sun Jul 20, 2014 5:37 pm; edited 2 times in total
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Danwvw
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PostPosted: Sun Jul 20, 2014 5:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yes 1,4,3,2


..........Flywheel end
.............//////////
..........[................]
..#3[//[..Engine....]//]#1
..........[..Diagram..]
..#4[//[................]//]#2
..........[................]
...............//////
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Evilrift
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PostPosted: Sun Jul 20, 2014 5:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ok, I'll try that again. I'm pretty sure I just tried it there. I was confused about the notch in the disti, I read that it points to #1 but I thought it was referring to the actual cylinder which made me wonder how I got the disti in so wrong.

Everything all wired up.
Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


Pic of the disti, when at 0 on the timing chart.
Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


I'm recharging the battery before giving it another go. What would be the next step?
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busdaddy
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PostPosted: Sun Jul 20, 2014 5:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Next step is confirm the distributor is fully seated in the drive and actually turns when cranking, grabbing the rotor and giving it a lifting twist will also confirm it's seated. After that double check your point gap when the rubbing block is at the top of a lobe and also check that they make contact at the bottom of a lobe, that can be done with a test light between the coil terminals, it should blink when cranking, steady light means dirty points. For plug wire arrangement have a look at this: http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?p=7292724#7292724
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Evilrift
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PostPosted: Sun Jul 20, 2014 6:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Rotor turns when trying to start, grabbing the rotor and lifting twist didn't do much, it seems snug.

Point gap is "now" at .016. I thought I had set it, but it was quite a bit more.

Still not trying to fire. I may try the spoon of gas again.

Were you trying to link to a different thread about plug wire arrangement?

Thanks!
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PostPosted: Sun Jul 20, 2014 6:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'd pop the valve cover off 1 and 2. Rotate it around till the valve adjusters are both closed on 1 like you're going to adjust the valves. You can pull the spark plug out of number one and insure the piston is also at the top with a straw.

Once you know your at top dead center on number one, verify where the rotor is pointing. Is it pointing at the notch in the distributor? If it's not then put the spark plug wire for number one where it's pointing and reinstall the rest of the wires in their new positions according to the picture posted above.

Sometimes people don't install the distributor drive correctly and it's off. People then assume it's correct and install the spark plug wires in the wrong holes.
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Evilrift
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PostPosted: Sun Jul 20, 2014 7:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I was following these steps from a Thing post, and I'm stuck at step 3. The test light never goes out. I can see the points opening, so any idea what this problem in the distributor could be?

1) First, you need to test that you have 12V at the + or Terminal 15 of the ignition coil with the ignition switch on. Use your test light to see if there is power there. Good? Continue. . .

2) Next, check to see if the power is going through the coil. Remove the distributor lead (and any other leads) from the negative or Terminal 1 of the coil. Check for power at Terminal 1, there should be power here now with the distributor lead disconnected. Good? Continue . . .

3) Connect the distributor lead back to the coil and see if there is power (light) or no power (no light) at terminal 1. If there is power, then the points are open or electronic ignition module is open circuit. If there is no power, then the points are closed, or the electronic ignition module is shorted. If you cannot get the test light to flash on and off when the engine is rotated, then the problem is in the distributor.
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Danwvw
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PostPosted: Sun Jul 20, 2014 7:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Don't tell me you have to look in the spark plug hole on the type 4 engine to see if it's at TDC? Aren't they marked! on the Fan Pulley somewhere. I don't know my type 4 mechanical experience is pretty much limited to looking over the shoulder of pretty clue less owners. But What you want to do when starting an engine for the first time is to use a digital Volt meter 1st to set up your points and timing. On the type 1 there is a nice little mark on the pulley for this. Just put the meter on ohms X1 and put the leads across the points and watch as your turn the engine CW the meter should go from zero ohms to infinity just about when it crosses the mark if not adjust the rotation of the distributor until it does. I have seen guys get this really whacked out though. Thing like 1/4 turn off on the distributor rotation or the plug wires all scrambled but thats all just monkey see monkey do stuff. Just make it like the pictures. Cam gear orientation, Distributor to plug wiring, Rotor pointing to #1 when the engine is on the #1 like you would when your adjust the valves. It could be your on #3 or something! Suppose that is what the above post is about. And make sure your have 12 volts on that coil (+15) terminal and that the points are dropping that voltage to near zero (-1)terminal when they close. Before you even try to start it check for a spark. Got spark? Well if that's all correct and it won't start then you have a vacuum leak!

Just read your post! Yes the test light must go out! No on off with the test light! something is open circuit at the points or they aren't really opening and closing just staying open. (Points Open=Light On) when putting light between ground and 1. It could be something as simple as some oil or grease on the points.
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PostPosted: Sun Jul 20, 2014 8:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Agreed, a fingerprint or a little corrosin can prevent the points from making contact, pinch a little scrap of brown paper bag between them and rub it around to polish them, just be careful you don't pick up more grease from the breaker plate and drag it through or leave a fiber from the bag inbetween.

As for the TDC thing exact TDC doesn't matter, what does is is there compression when approaching that TDC? (there's 2 and the exhaust one won't do), no need for a straw, a finger on the hole to feel for compression is all you need, or get oily and take off a rocker cover for a look at the valves if you like, I prefer to work from above when it's convenient.
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Tcash
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PostPosted: Sun Jul 20, 2014 8:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Turn the distributor until the points are closed.
Hook your test light to the Neg #1 side of the coil. Where you have the distributor wire hooked up.
Turn on the ignition switch.
With a Popsicle stick or a piece of plastic, open and close the points.
Light on, Light off.
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Evilrift
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PostPosted: Sun Jul 20, 2014 8:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

So I tried cleaning the new points but still had the same issue with the test light staying on when , so I replaced the points back to the old ones still the same issue.

I need to read up to find out exactly what I'm looking at here, Im very confused with how the points, coil, condenser work together.
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Evilrift
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PostPosted: Sun Jul 20, 2014 9:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks Tcash, I did just what you stated and low and behold the light flashed on and off. I have no idea what changed, I must not have been testing correctly previously.

So I went back to the first test busdaddy suggested gas down the intake, and it coughed and fired up for a second. It was sweet while it lasted.

So I guess now I need to troubleshoot the fuel lines? That will be tomorrow's job.
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Tcash
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PostPosted: Sun Jul 20, 2014 9:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Did you hook up those red/white wires on the starter?

Where you able to figure out what terminal on the fuel pump is Pos+ and which one is Neg-?
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Evilrift
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PostPosted: Sun Jul 20, 2014 10:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I took the fuel pump off and cleaned it up and saw the + and - signs. When I reinstalled it I put the red/blue on + and the brown on -. As I knew I'd be unable to sleep without a better understanding of where the next problem may lie, I took off the cold start valve and turned the ignition on. No fuel came out, so I disconnected it fully and still no fuel.

I climbed underneath and verified I see fuel in the fuel filter, fuel pump looks good. I then took a test light and verified I'm getting power under there when cranking. But I don't feel the pump turn on. Maybe the pump is fried.
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Danwvw
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PostPosted: Mon Jul 21, 2014 9:13 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

If you are just using a test light make sure to clamp across + and - on the fuel pump to check for power. You could have a open circuit on the brown wire.
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Evilrift
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PostPosted: Mon Jul 21, 2014 10:05 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

By clamp across you just mean put the test light on the - and + of the fuel pump right? I did that and when cranking the light lit up so it appears to be getting power.

I assume I'd be able to hear the pump or feel it turn on correct? Either way I ordered a new one so no matter what I'll check this off the list tonight.
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