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flyindutchman Samba Member
Joined: December 09, 2012 Posts: 112 Location: Vancouver,WA.
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Posted: Wed Jun 25, 2014 10:19 am Post subject: Rear drum brake spacer mod |
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I had read that people were using "spacers" in the drum brakes to improve the contact between the shoe and drum. It seems that the shoes wear mostly on the top portion of the brake liner. So I lurked around and didn't find anything on what was used how this was accomplished and how much spacer was needed. I assume that this is where the "shim/spacer" was added?
Does anybody have any experience with this mod?
I am only assuming that it will increase the efficiency of the stock setup, do you think this is a waist if time? |
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rubbachicken Samba Member
Joined: October 05, 2004 Posts: 3058 Location: socal
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Posted: Wed Jun 25, 2014 10:35 am Post subject: |
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i have done this mod to almost every vanagon i look after, i use 9/16 ID shims bought from ace hardware, they usually have 2 thickness, i use the thicker ones. _________________ lucy our westy
lucy's BIG adventure
meet 'burni'
markswagen {mobile mechanic} san diego area all early VW's cared for.
619 201 0310 or 617 935 4182 |
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motelvw Samba Member
Joined: July 19, 2005 Posts: 465
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Posted: Wed Jun 25, 2014 1:17 pm Post subject: |
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Does that piece pull out of its hole to put the spacer in?
Been a while since I've been back there, but I know I need to do this. |
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vers13 Samba Member
Joined: May 18, 2011 Posts: 55 Location: HI
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Posted: Wed Jun 25, 2014 1:30 pm Post subject: |
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Awesome, first time I've read of this mod. Will be waiting on reply as to where to place the shims. Also, shouldn't braking improve slightly, being that you are engaging more of the surface area on the shoe's pad? |
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IdahoDoug Samba Member
Joined: June 12, 2010 Posts: 10248 Location: N. Idaho
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Posted: Wed Jun 25, 2014 9:44 pm Post subject: |
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You're engaging more surface area but at the same pressure, so friction change would be very little. Will improve brake shoe life to wear it out evenly, though and perhaps reduce fade in extreme situations where one spot on shoe gets super hot. Good mod. Interested as well
DougM _________________ 1987 2WD Wolfsburg Vanagon Weekender "Mango", two fully locked 80 Series LandCruisers. 2017 Subaru Outback boxer. 1990 Audi 90 Quattro 20V with rear locking differential, 1990 burgundy parts Vanagon. 1984 Porsche 944, 1988 Toyota Supra 5 speed targa, 2002 BMW 325iX, 1982 Toyota Sunrader |
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goffoz Samba Member
Joined: May 09, 2007 Posts: 1486
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Posted: Wed Jun 25, 2014 11:02 pm Post subject: |
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rubbachicken wrote: |
i have done this mod to almost every vanagon i look after, i use 9/16 ID shims bought from ace hardware, they usually have 2 thickness, i use the thicker ones. |
care to add a little more detail 9/16th"x? Where do you install/what material..steel/Al./pic
I'd really appreciate safer braking |
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Michael4104 Samba Member
Joined: February 09, 2014 Posts: 340 Location: Livermore, Ca
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Posted: Thu Jun 26, 2014 5:18 am Post subject: |
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What is the Ace 9/16" spacer used for? Is it a washer? |
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rubbachicken Samba Member
Joined: October 05, 2004 Posts: 3058 Location: socal
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Posted: Thu Jun 26, 2014 5:21 am Post subject: |
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i'm sorry i am in israel at the moment, and my stock of stuff is at home, i've looked through my pictures to see if i have one, but nothing.
if i remember it's a 9/16, ID machine bushing i think it was, ace hardware and true value hardware have them loose, i do not remember the dimensions other than the ID, they have 2 different thicknesses, i bought both, and so far i have only used the thinker of the two.
more than that i am afraid i cannot answer.
do they make a difference, YES they do, they put more of the shoe in contact with the drum, increasing breaking performance, i did the job to lucy first before i did it to customers vans, and having looked in at the shoe wear after, i could clearly see the difference in the contact surface. _________________ lucy our westy
lucy's BIG adventure
meet 'burni'
markswagen {mobile mechanic} san diego area all early VW's cared for.
619 201 0310 or 617 935 4182 |
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crazyvwvanman Samba Member
Joined: January 28, 2008 Posts: 9923 Location: Orbiting San Diego
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dhaavers Samba Member
Joined: March 19, 2010 Posts: 7756 Location: NE MN (tinyurl.com/dhaaverslocation)
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Posted: Thu Jun 26, 2014 7:19 am Post subject: |
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As usual - awesome, helpful specifics, Mark! I'll be looking at my FLHS today...
I assume you need 4 (1 under each pin, front & rear on both side of the van)? _________________ 86 White Wolfsburg Westy Weekender
"The WonderVan"
<EDITED TO PROTECT INNOCENT PIXELS> |
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j_dirge Samba Member
Joined: August 08, 2007 Posts: 4641 Location: Twain Harte, CA
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Posted: Thu Jun 26, 2014 7:24 am Post subject: |
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dhaavers wrote: |
As usual - awesome, helpful specifics, Mark! I'll be looking at my FLHS today...
I assume you need 4 (1 under each pin, front & rear on both side of the van)? |
4 is typical, yes.
But you may want to observe the shoe wear after install.
If a shoe still wears at the top only, try the thicker washer.. if shoes between front and back show uneven wear try mixing.
(You should not have to mix, but it is an option.)
Also, check the backing plates.. in addition to all moving components.
I found my driver side has actually worn through!.. likely due to an improper spring install at some point in the van's life. _________________ -89 GL Westy, SVX.. finally.
-57 pan f/g buggy with a 67 pancake Type 3 "S"
"Jimi Hendrix owned one. Richard Nixon did not"
-Grand Tour, Season 1, episodes 4 and 5
danfromsyr wrote: |
those are straight line runs with light weight race cars for only 1/4mile at a time..
not pushing a loaded brick up a mountain pass with a family of 4+ inside expecting to have an event free vacation..
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msinabottle Samba Member
Joined: September 20, 2005 Posts: 3492 Location: Denver Area, Colorado
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Posted: Tue Jul 01, 2014 12:01 am Post subject: Pictures Installed? |
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I am very interested in this thread and this mod! Does anyone have any pictures of the spacers installed? Would the stresses and changes in wear patterns effect anything for the worse?
Now that I've learned how to bend metal line, I'm thinking of Winston's aging brake lines, and while I'm in there...
Best! _________________ 'Winston,' '84 1.9 WBX Westy
Vanagon Poet Laureate: "I have suffered in
many ways, but never, never, never in silence." |
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Wellington Samba Member
Joined: September 21, 2004 Posts: 1884 Location: Montreal
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Posted: Tue Jul 01, 2014 2:47 am Post subject: |
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I recall a previous thread, where the guy used adjusters from an early bus, no fabrication, slip right in and adjustable. Someone can search it. |
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rubbachicken Samba Member
Joined: October 05, 2004 Posts: 3058 Location: socal
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Posted: Tue Jul 01, 2014 4:20 am Post subject: |
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come on guys this stuff is not rocket science
it's a $0.40 shim, the adjusters from bug/ bays would nee modification, as when they were used there was a metal tab to stop them spinning around on their own.
i can't see how it could possible make anything inside the drum worse, the only thing it is doing is putting MORE of the brake shoe, in contact with the drum.
it's time for you guys to go venture into the garage and make it happen. _________________ lucy our westy
lucy's BIG adventure
meet 'burni'
markswagen {mobile mechanic} san diego area all early VW's cared for.
619 201 0310 or 617 935 4182 |
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insyncro Banned
Joined: March 07, 2002 Posts: 15086 Location: New York
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Posted: Tue Jul 01, 2014 5:31 am Post subject: |
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Shiminy crickets
I agree with rubberchix, get into the garage and get your hands dirty. |
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ZsZ Samba Member
Joined: December 11, 2010 Posts: 1645 Location: Budapest Hungary, Europe
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Posted: Tue Jul 01, 2014 5:52 am Post subject: |
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Here in europe you can buy them in new.
https://www.tk-carparts.de/article/173/Lagerbock_fr_Bremsbacke.html
It is recommended to renew them as the originals are worn now.
Shimming below them should work for a cheap fix. _________________ Zoltan
1.9 MTdi 2wd Multivan (ex Caravelle)
Van since 2006, engine since 2008 |
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Zeitgeist 13 Samba Member
Joined: March 05, 2009 Posts: 12115 Location: Port Manteau
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Posted: Tue Jul 01, 2014 9:18 am Post subject: |
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Those machine bushings appear to be the same units used on lots of wheelbarrows, and thus the supplies of replacement axles/bearings/washers, so that might be a hint when looking in a generic hardware store.
Also, those lower pivot pins are notorious for getting frozen solid in their bores, so don't be surprised if they don't share your enthusiasm for this mod. _________________ Casey--
'89 Bluestar ALH w/12mm Waldo pump, PP764 and GT2052
'01 Weekender --> full camper
y u rune klassik? |
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furrylittleotter Samba Member
Joined: May 19, 2008 Posts: 1506 Location: West Seattle
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Posted: Tue Jul 01, 2014 10:47 am Post subject: |
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In case anyone would rather spend more to get the same thing Mcmaster Carr and Grainger both sell these:
http://www.mcmaster.com/#standard-shims/=sneof1
I am about to change my shoes and turn my brand new warped drums and may play around in there a bit to try and get better contact if needed, when I do.
My plan: Turn drums, reassemble with new shoes, adjust. Drive a few hundred miles to "bed-in" everything.
Disassemble, inspect, grind pads if needed, adjust and possibly add the aforementioned washers, light coat of Blue machinist's layout dye on pad, drive, disassemble and inspect, grind more and adjust as needed.
I'm not an expert by any means but this seems like a fun plan to try. Open to suggestions.
Neil2 |
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atomatom Samba Member
Joined: May 15, 2012 Posts: 1867 Location: in an 84 Westy or Bowen Island, BC
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Posted: Fri Aug 01, 2014 3:46 pm Post subject: |
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Zeitgeist 13 wrote: |
Also, those lower pivot pins are notorious for getting frozen solid in their bores, so don't be surprised if they don't share your enthusiasm for this mod. |
I got a true appreciation for this comment. Mine were not having any of it.
More tales from others here: http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=508123&start=0
_________________ 84 Vanagon Westy, 1.9L, California raised but defected to Canada. |
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atomatom Samba Member
Joined: May 15, 2012 Posts: 1867 Location: in an 84 Westy or Bowen Island, BC
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Posted: Fri Aug 01, 2014 3:53 pm Post subject: |
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So gurus - how do you get these buggers off without breaking your brakes? Heat? Serious whallops with a sledge hammer? Vice grips? Twisting? Pulling? Screaming and shouting? Buying a new backing plate? _________________ 84 Vanagon Westy, 1.9L, California raised but defected to Canada. |
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