Setting 28mm torsion bars on baja

[ORANGECRUSHer]

I'm in the middle of going thru the rear suspension and to my surprise I found 28mm sway away bars installed.
Before this the rear looked like it could be stiffened up a bit. The spring plates had enough sag to sit just under mid travel at rest.
Having tried to index the one side already I noticed it's very hard to index them much without the end of the bar deflecting making it impossible to get the covers back on.
Is there something I'm missing here or is indexing a lot more suttle with these big bars than I'm used to?
It's a real pain getting them out having to remove the brake lines and the trailing arms so I'd like to do this once tonight. So any quick advice would be appreciated!
_________________
Brian H.
I may not know everything,but I will try to help if I can
OrangeCrushER Berrien Warrior 2.4L Quad4
LAZY MARY 1970 Baja 1835cc

[Dale M.]

Have never yet had to remove trailing arms and brake lines doing a reindex... Dont know why you feel you have to.... All I have ever done is remove bolts on spring plates and pulled axles to rearward..

As for getting plates back on, I use longer bolts to basically pull torsion bar end plates in till the proper short bolts can replace longer ones....

Dale
_________________
“Fear The Government That Wants To Take Your Guns" - Thomas Jefferson.

"Kellison Sand Piper Roadster" For Street & Show.
"Joe Pody Sandrover" Buggy with 2180 for Autocross (Sold)
============================================================
All suggestions and advice are purely my own opinion. You are free to ignore them if you wish ...

[ORANGECRUSHer]

Thanks for the reply Dale. That's what I figured but I couldn't get any movement out of my trailing arms. I had removed the CVs and brake lines and pull trailing arm completely out. The spring plate seem extra thick and they don't give whatsoever so pulling back on the trailing arm just makes it bind on the spring plate. I also tried to just jack the arm up out-of-the-way but it doesn't quite have enough room to clear the spring plate.
In the end it was a good thing because my bushings were worn out and binding on the bolt and I also could've used some new brake lines. It took me half an hour just to get one of the bolts out because it was so galled on the bushing.
I'm going to assume that with the heavier torsion bars adjustments are finer. I ended up clocking the torsion bar inside the spring plate by a spline and then putting them back in as much as I could indexed so that the end of the torsion bar didn't deflect where the cap wouldn't fit.
Kind of a pain in the butt but I'm hoping I get both sides to ride the same height.
_________________
Brian H.
I may not know everything,but I will try to help if I can
OrangeCrushER Berrien Warrior 2.4L Quad4
LAZY MARY 1970 Baja 1835cc

[ORANGECRUSHer]

Seems like it would be a lot easier if the spring plates rode on the outside of the trailing arm bracket.
_________________
Brian H.
I may not know everything,but I will try to help if I can
OrangeCrushER Berrien Warrior 2.4L Quad4
LAZY MARY 1970 Baja 1835cc

[race-desert]

I have double spring plates and just remove spring plate bolts, shock and rubber bump stop and pull arm up and hold with rachet strap......

[ORANGECRUSHer]

Well I finished the second side and it's sitting level. Gonna pop the other trailing arm off to replace bushings and brake hose. While I'm at it I'm switching my wheel cylinders around, fronts on back, backs on front.
_________________
Brian H.
I may not know everything,but I will try to help if I can
OrangeCrushER Berrien Warrior 2.4L Quad4
LAZY MARY 1970 Baja 1835cc

[ORANGECRUSHer]

Thanks for the help.
Next task is a four wheel alignment.
_________________
Brian H.
I may not know everything,but I will try to help if I can
OrangeCrushER Berrien Warrior 2.4L Quad4
LAZY MARY 1970 Baja 1835cc

[BUGGUTZ]

I do the same deal as Dale with the longer bolts. Plus i bolt up the arm so I have more leverage. Also it makes it a smoother safer way to jack them up.

[72Pstroke]

When I re-index a car, I install the covers loosely (with three bolts) with the trailing arm below the stop, before I put pressure on the arm to raise it back up.
I then raise the arm up just enough to get the fourth bolt in.
After that, raise the trailing arm back up above the stop. I use a c-clamp to pull the arm back onto the stop.
The last time I did a car, it took 45 minutes start to finish to do both sides.
Tim

[planejob]

[ORANGECRUSHer]

puts the emphasis of brake power on the bigger rear tires.
_________________
Brian H.
I may not know everything,but I will try to help if I can
OrangeCrushER Berrien Warrior 2.4L Quad4
LAZY MARY 1970 Baja 1835cc

[dustymojave]

And is the correct way to do it!!!

I agree with Dale. Long studs to line up the cover plate, then replace the bolts 1 at a time to pull the plates in.

Your spring plate grommets may be tired. That would contribute to your trouble. But 28s are pretty stout.

The splines are the same on ALL Bug torsion bars. The adjustments are the same no matter how thick the bars. Before you take it apart, measure the angle of the spring plates at ride height. Then jack up the back of the car to the ride height you want, measure the angle of the spring plates there. The difference between the 2 angles is how much you want to rotate your bars. Inner splines are bigger than outers. So you can make fine adjustments by rotating the inner and outer splines in opposite directions
_________________
Richard
Offroading VW based cars since 1965
Tech Inspection 1963 - 2012 SCCA/SCORE/HDRA/MORE/MDR +
Retired from building Bajas, Fiberglass Buggies and Rails in the Mojave Desert. Also Sprints & Midgets, Dry Lakes, Road Race cars. All types New and Vintage
SoCalBajas Member
Kicked Cancer's A$$...1st and 2nd round...Fight ain't over yet.

[ORANGECRUSHer]

Yeah I think it just was a matter of deflection and I liked the idea to start the cap on before jacking the plate back onto the stop. I think that would be the only way to get any apreciable stiffness and still get the cap back on.
I'm pretty much just driving this down fire roads and on asphalt for the time being so a little preload is nice anyway.
_________________
Brian H.
I may not know everything,but I will try to help if I can
OrangeCrushER Berrien Warrior 2.4L Quad4
LAZY MARY 1970 Baja 1835cc

[ORANGECRUSHer]

It's a year later and I'm back on this topic with this car and what do you know I already had a thread started! lol

So last night I'm checking my ride in the back and I was surprised at how different the two sides were from each other. I measured an inch less on the driver side from the back of the springplate perch up to the springplate. So I decided to try taking things apart again. I managed to get it stiffened up using the steps advised above and the deflection of the end of the bar wasn't such a bad problem this time. Granted I beat the hell on things to get them moving around. End cap isn't seated all the way, but hoping I can get it tightened down some more after things move a bit.

Anyway, my problem now is I think my spring plates are trashed. The outside rim of the splined tube was beat so hard that it has flattened and the bar won't go all the way to the end because the splines are peaned down about 1/8". So I chucked it up in my new press and pushed it through the peaned area and yanked off all that broken crap. Now the bar sits at the end but it is a real chore to remove the plate from the bar when adjusting. You have to pull out the bar and everything and stick it in a vise and beat the bar out of the plate. This makes it hard to be consistant since I'm losing the inner spline placement pulling the whole thing out like that.

So I'm wondering, does everyone have this problem with the bar sticking in the springplate? Or should I be able to easily slide the plate off and on the bar without disengaging the inner splines? New springplate time???
_________________
Brian H.
I may not know everything,but I will try to help if I can
OrangeCrushER Berrien Warrior 2.4L Quad4
LAZY MARY 1970 Baja 1835cc

[TDCTDI]

I use lots of grease on the splines, this also keeps them from getting as rusty. That rust combined with the twist necessary to get your spring plates back in creates lots of friction. Without the spring tension they should slide on & off with little effort.

[BUGGUTZ]

When I remove mine I use a punch and tap the bar in as I slowly work the spring plate out. When I set mine I add a degree to the drivers side. Since my but is always in the car that side tends to relax more.
_________________
66 Baja
73 standard
14 Jetta TDI
95 Escort
89 CUMMINS in whats left of a dodge body

Everyones gotta be somewhere!

[72Pstroke]

Any idea what the 28mm bars are out of? I need a set for my car.
Tim

[Dale M.]

Believe they are after market...

http://www.cbperformance.com/ProductDetails.asp?ProductCode=7554

Here is source of bars, unfortunately the web site is new and not quite ready for prime time....

http://www.swayaway.com/products/product-list/mode...+42fpYg/s=

Dale
_________________
“Fear The Government That Wants To Take Your Guns" - Thomas Jefferson.

"Kellison Sand Piper Roadster" For Street & Show.
"Joe Pody Sandrover" Buggy with 2180 for Autocross (Sold)
============================================================
All suggestions and advice are purely my own opinion. You are free to ignore them if you wish ...

[ORANGECRUSHer]

Plan on diggin back into this tonight, maybe I'll take a few pics just for fun.

My rig is kinda odd. Whoever set this up as a baja originally seemed to have some good ideas. I noticed that some extra plate seems to be welded along side the spring perches which consequently makes removing them all that much more fun. The springplates are also being held in by some straps.

Odd thing is, when I tightened up the drivers side last week there wasn't enough stroke in the shock to get the upper bolt through it without compressing the suspension a bit. The springplate was firmly sitting on the perch and the shock still needed roughly 1/2" or so to go to slide in the shock bolt.
So I haven't been driving it since. My shocks are decent SACOs and I didn't want to damage them uneccessarily. I will have to go back in and dial out some spring. Regardless, it's still going to bang those shocks pretty good unless I use a limit strap or something...
Just thought it kinda weird how these shocks are too short with stock travel. ???
_________________
Brian H.
I may not know everything,but I will try to help if I can
OrangeCrushER Berrien Warrior 2.4L Quad4
LAZY MARY 1970 Baja 1835cc

[ORANGECRUSHer]

maybe my old Bilsteins off orangecrush will be the length i need
_________________
Brian H.
I may not know everything,but I will try to help if I can
OrangeCrushER Berrien Warrior 2.4L Quad4
LAZY MARY 1970 Baja 1835cc