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Bobnotch
Samba Member
Joined: July 06, 2003
Posts: 22422
Location: Kimball, Mi
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 Posted: Mon Jul 21, 2014 9:18 am Post subject: |
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| VWGirl wrote: |
| I really dont understand where yoh all are saying that anything is pushed down. What is pushed down, the middle of the bumper? The fender has been pushed out away from the car but is still level where it is supposed to be. |
We're ALL going off these 3 pictures YOU posted.
If you look at this pic, the top of the fender line should follow straight out and across from the upper body line of the door and front of the fender. At the rear of it, you can clearly see that the top of it is lower. The tail light is lower on the right versus the left using the same projected straight line sighting. I'm going off my own 65 Notch when referencing this body line.
Also note the gap between the fender edge and trunk lid, compared to the left side. This indicates the rear part of the right fender is lower than that of the left rear fender.
This photo shows what I mentioned above, in that the rear of the fender is down, as that gap opens up from left to right, indicating that the right corner of the trunk floor is pushed down. You can still see the body line in the apron itself indicating that the entire corner is lower on the right versus the left. If I had to make a guess of the impact, I'd say the car behind you, ran you over (or at least tried to).
Going off this pic, you can see the rear fender at the trunk opening is lower too. The apron itself is pushed down in the lower right hand corner, as the trunk lid straight edge bottom shows this (look at the gap on both sides, since YOU say the trunk lid is fine). This IS what we're trying to tell you by that entire corner is down. It's been pushed down, and I'm betting that the load floor is pushed down as well.
Now, I'll be the first to say I don't work for AKK or the insurance industry, but I've worked on my share of wrecked or accident cars over the last 20 years (and no, I don't work for a collision shop either). I'm just telling you what I see, and as far as I can tell, this is going to need straightening rack time at a minimum, and possibly even metal replacent. In fact AKK will probably have to do a body off in order to properly repair this (I know I would), and they'll need the big blue Bentley to check the dimensions to see IF the body itself is twisted, and or still in alignment. That's going to add to the cost of the repair.
Edit; After looking at a pic of my own car (forgot I had a nice direct side shot), I now realise there's a slight taper to the 2 ends from the ends of the doors. It's not as much of a taper as your car has though. here a comparison pic showing what the rear fender should look like on an undamaged car. You can see how far yours has been pushed around with it.
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71 Notch ...aka Krunchy; build pics here;
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=249390 -been busy working
64 T-34 Ghia...aka Wolfie, under construction... http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=412120
| Tram wrote: |
| "Friends are God's way of apologizing for relatives." |
| Tram wrote: |
| People keep confusing "restored" and "restroyed". |
Last edited by Bobnotch on Mon Jul 21, 2014 9:41 am; edited 2 times in total |
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EverettB 
Administrator
Joined: April 11, 2000
Posts: 69823
Location: Phoenix Metro
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| Posted: Mon Jul 21, 2014 9:38 am Post subject: |
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| VWGirl wrote: |
| luckystiff wrote: |
i agree with everyone here that you're in denial if you don't think there is inner structure damage. how much will take some digging to find out exactly. no offense meant to you or AKK but how much frame/structural damage repair do they do? as said i'd almost bet as a restoration shop "frame work" is probably something they farm out as most resto shops do.
do not let them push you off to your ins co. do not take ANY money from them whatsoever. everyone involved from the hauler to the repair shop needs to be paid 100% by NATIONWIDE directly. they like to slip releases in small payouts hoping your dumb enough not to read everything you're signing.
can everett search old/gone ads to see if a compareable has listed here in the last 5 years? |
That is a great question. I will send him a message and ask. There are only about a dozen for sale now. |
There 27 if you search on notch right now.
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/classifieds/search.php?...ton=Search
2 N models
This one says pending but the price was $8000
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/classifieds/detail.php?id=1647552
Also
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/classifieds/detail.php?id=1654095
I can search old ads but specifically looking for N models probably won't work very well. I don't think this really matters in the big scheme of things though.
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VWGirl
Samba Member
Joined: June 03, 2003
Posts: 2462
Location: Powder Springs, GA
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| Posted: Mon Jul 21, 2014 10:12 am Post subject: |
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Thanks for the reference pic bobnotch. I can see what you are talking about with the apron. It kind of makes sense. The spron is pushed in/down where the trunk lid meets it (when I say the trunk lid is fine, its damaged, but the body lines are straight).
I do have other pictures which I have shared with akk, who has in no way made an estimate or determination off of pictures, but I think they may show better what I am talking about. I cant post them from my phone though.
I know it is going to take quite a bit of money to get her back on the road, but she WILL be back on the road one way or another. From what I have seen there arent many cars out there in better shape... smashed rear end and all. Id rather redo this one and know what I have than end up with one I have no idea what has been done to.
I wish it were easier for the pictures to show.
I want to say that 3rd picture is lying about the body lines, but I know its not. The lines at the bottom of the fender are right, so not sure how the trunk lines up that way unless its from the trunk being tweaked (it is dented on the other side). The same picture shows where the reflector was hit on the inside... this is what I think rippled the fender... the fender is pulled off the body about a half inch. So I can somewhat see the body from top and bottom.
Youre rught, what I can see with my eye might not be 100%, but I think these pictures make it out to be worse than it is
.. but really that is all relative to what you think is bad or not? Its bad... but im just saying its fixable. I will try and take some better pics.
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luckystiff
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Joined: September 28, 2005
Posts: 2252
Location: hickory,nc
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| Posted: Mon Jul 21, 2014 10:30 am Post subject: |
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| VWGirl wrote: |
I really dont understand where yoh all are saying that anything is pushed down. What is pushed down, the middle of the bumper? The fender has been pushed out away from the car but is still level where it is supposed to be.
Maybe I am just confused as to your terminology of "down" as nothing is pushing down. In, out, forward maybe, but not down? |
i guess that 3.5 years of Auto Body Repair School followed by doing it as either a career and/or hobby for close to 25 years might lead to more of a trained eye for seeing things.
i'll just go ahead and say i'm a little questionable that AKK hasn't told you the same things as we are telling you here if they have experience with fixing collision damage. again not trying to take anything away from them and their skill but if they've seen these(and possibly more pics since they are your chosen shop) i would think they should be preparing you for the same forecast.
Can it be fixed? sure it can. will it ever be the same? nope and thats just being honest with you. you could even pull it back reasonably straight and get everything to line up and exterior wise look great but it now has a weakened sub structure.
i posted up my car as example. if got time on the rack with to pull the push it had in the cowl firewall so i could get it to the point to be able to put an undamaged clip from there forward. i'll be honest and say if i had the option of a full donor it would have been clipped from the A pillar forward. and don't think what i paid for my car being on the rack is a good example. if joe blow was having it done it would have been 3-4X what i paid most likely.
i think everybody here is just trying to be realistic with you. you are going to be LUCKY to get the car fixed and PAID IN FULL by the ins. i didn't realize it was on an auto pan so in reality not an og RARE N model in all sense of the word. your 2 best outcomes are going to be: 1) you actually get your car fixed and it be paid for. or 2) you get your $10k agreed value and the car in the end(whether out of the deal or you spend some of that $10k to buy it back........
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VWGirl
Samba Member
Joined: June 03, 2003
Posts: 2462
Location: Powder Springs, GA
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| Posted: Mon Jul 21, 2014 10:56 am Post subject: |
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I am not near the car, but here are some more pics i have... again, i can't get the pics to reflect what i see... but maybe this helps explain... And again... AKK hasn't seen the car in person. But either way, they can fix it.
This one may be the money shot here as it does appear that it is pushed in... but I still haven't seen the wrinkle in the body, and as I stated and have shown in pictures, the fender was pushed toward the outside of the car, not in... but we will see when the fender is pulled off.
Honestly, it doesn't really matter what we speculate lies beneath. It is what it is and nothing is going to change that.
I had a pic f where the bumper met with the body and the body with the fender but they didnt seem to want to post.
anyway i will keep you posted
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Tram
Samba Socialist
Joined: May 02, 2003
Posts: 22727
Location: Still Feelin' the Bern- Once you've felt it you can't un- feel it.
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| Posted: Mon Jul 21, 2014 11:03 am Post subject: |
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| luckystiff wrote: |
| VWGirl wrote: |
I really dont understand where yoh all are saying that anything is pushed down. What is pushed down, the middle of the bumper? The fender has been pushed out away from the car but is still level where it is supposed to be.
Maybe I am just confused as to your terminology of "down" as nothing is pushing down. In, out, forward maybe, but not down? |
i guess that 3.5 years of Auto Body Repair School followed by doing it as either a career and/or hobby for close to 25 years might lead to more of a trained eye for seeing things.
i'll just go ahead and say i'm a little questionable that AKK hasn't told you the same things as we are telling you here if they have experience with fixing collision damage. again not trying to take anything away from them and their skill but if they've seen these(and possibly more pics since they are your chosen shop) i would think they should be preparing you for the same forecast.
Can it be fixed? sure it can. will it ever be the same? nope and thats just being honest with you. you could even pull it back reasonably straight and get everything to line up and exterior wise look great but it now has a weakened sub structure.
i posted up my car as example. if got time on the rack with to pull the push it had in the cowl firewall so i could get it to the point to be able to put an undamaged clip from there forward. i'll be honest and say if i had the option of a full donor it would have been clipped from the A pillar forward. and don't think what i paid for my car being on the rack is a good example. if joe blow was having it done it would have been 3-4X what i paid most likely.
i think everybody here is just trying to be realistic with you. you are going to be LUCKY to get the car fixed and PAID IN FULL by the ins. i didn't realize it was on an auto pan so in reality not an og RARE N model in all sense of the word. your 2 best outcomes are going to be: 1) you actually get your car fixed and it be paid for. or 2) you get your $10k agreed value and the car in the end(whether out of the deal or you spend some of that $10k to buy it back........ |
Well, it'll be 40 years since I started my apprenticeship with VW next year. Between luckystiff, Bobnotch, and me, that's almost 90 years combined experience. Then there's everybody else. You've got a great pool of experience you are drawing from here.
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Mike Fisher
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Joined: January 30, 2006
Posts: 17970
Location: Eugene, OR
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| Posted: Mon Jul 21, 2014 11:33 am Post subject: |
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AKK can fix it, so ignore any talk of not being able to fix it & buying another car or whatever! They can straighten out the inner/outer fenders & I don't think you will need many new/used parts for the bodywork. Don't Stress since you're getting a brand new paint job for free! 
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VWGirl
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Joined: June 03, 2003
Posts: 2462
Location: Powder Springs, GA
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| Posted: Mon Jul 21, 2014 12:22 pm Post subject: |
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| Mike Fisher wrote: |
| AKK can fix it, so ignore any talk of not being able to fix it & buying another car or whatever! They can straighten out the inner/outer fenders & I don't think you will need many new/used parts for the bodywork. Don't Stress since you're getting a brand new paint job for free! |
I am not sure if this is sarcasm or not?
Anything is fixable with enough time and money. Maybe its quicker/easier/cheaper to just buy another car, but it took me 15 years to find this one and its what I want :/ if it were crumpled up like my parts vanagon or cabriolet or 73 super beetle (none of which I crumpled, I bought them for parts) then I would say total it and start over, but I just dont see doing that to this car. Maybe I am crazy, but you all think that anyway 
She will live to see the streets again... the path to get her there is just long and questionable.
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vwfye
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Joined: April 15, 2000
Posts: 7661
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| Posted: Mon Jul 21, 2014 12:56 pm Post subject: |
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My guess is, if they are willing to fix it and you are willing to pay beyond what the insurance will pay, it can be done. However, are you prepared to by another notchback rear end to clip the car from the b pillar rearward? and, even doing that, you will most likely have to use your rear fenders and have them straighten or straight metal from a fastback/squareback fender used to replace what is twisted.
I am not a notchback expert, but I have owned 7 of them and those rear ends don't grow on trees.
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Tram
Samba Socialist
Joined: May 02, 2003
Posts: 22727
Location: Still Feelin' the Bern- Once you've felt it you can't un- feel it.
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| Posted: Mon Jul 21, 2014 1:20 pm Post subject: |
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| VWGirl wrote: |
| Mike Fisher wrote: |
| AKK can fix it, so ignore any talk of not being able to fix it & buying another car or whatever! They can straighten out the inner/outer fenders & I don't think you will need many new/used parts for the bodywork. Don't Stress since you're getting a brand new paint job for free! |
I am not sure if this is sarcasm or not?
Anything is fixable with enough time and money. Maybe its quicker/easier/cheaper to just buy another car, but it took me 15 years to find this one and its what I want :/ if it were crumpled up like my parts vanagon or cabriolet or 73 super beetle (none of which I crumpled, I bought them for parts) then I would say total it and start over, but I just dont see doing that to this car. Maybe I am crazy, but you all think that anyway
She will live to see the streets again... the path to get her there is just long and questionable. |
I don't think it's sarcasm, but I can't see insurance paying to paint the whole car. They're not obligated to do that.
As to us "thinking" you're crazy... using the word "think" in that case could imply that you being crazy might not be true, so I'd find another way to put that.  
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Bobnotch
Samba Member
Joined: July 06, 2003
Posts: 22422
Location: Kimball, Mi
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| Posted: Mon Jul 21, 2014 1:24 pm Post subject: |
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| vwfye wrote: |
My guess is, if they are willing to fix it and you are willing to pay beyond what the insurance will pay, it can be done. However, are you prepared to by another notchback rear end to clip the car from the b pillar rearward? and, even doing that, you will most likely have to use your rear fenders and have them straighten or straight metal from a fastback/squareback fender used to replace what is twisted.
I am not a notchback expert, but I have owned 7 of them and those rear ends don't grow on trees. |
Yup, those Notchback parts are really hard to find, especially without any rust. Having owned 2 already, I know they're a PIA to find rear parts for, which IS why I'm hanging onto a set of lightly rusted rear fenders for one that I picked up 7 or 8 years ago. 
I don't doubt that AKK can fix it. anything can be fixed. It just takes time and money. I still say that we're going to see this car considered "totalled" by the insurance company.
Like I said, I don't consider myself an expert, but I have had a few of these cars apart, and can tell you that it'll be pricey to fix.
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Bob 65 Notch S with Sunroof
71 Notch ...aka Krunchy; build pics here;
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=249390 -been busy working
64 T-34 Ghia...aka Wolfie, under construction... http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=412120
| Tram wrote: |
| "Friends are God's way of apologizing for relatives." |
| Tram wrote: |
| People keep confusing "restored" and "restroyed". |
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Malokin Martin
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Joined: August 19, 2007
Posts: 3099
Location: E-burg
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| Posted: Mon Jul 21, 2014 1:45 pm Post subject: |
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Running this by a lawyer and getting solid advice is way better than asking any of us. $200 +\- bucks well spent (at the most). At the very least they can outline your options and limitations.
You don't actually have to sue the guy to talk to a lawyer. Being informed is your first and most important step.
Your insurance, his insurance and the guy who hit you DO NOT have your best interests in mind.
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VWGirl
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Location: Powder Springs, GA
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| Posted: Mon Jul 21, 2014 1:46 pm Post subject: |
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I fully expect this to be a 5 figure repair. Especially since I am not settling for rusty and previously repaired parts. So far I have found everything I need but the rear apron NOS... and I have a lead on that... but these parts are stupid expensive and I am not pulling the trigger on anything until I have AKK take a look at the car.
As far as the car being totaled... Nationwide already threw that term out when they came to look at the car... that leaves me with even more questions on if this car can even be considered as totaled? You see in the state of GA titles are not required for cars older that 1985. I have the Arkansas title on the car, but it is still in ddesh's name.... because I fought to get the car registered as a 64, which it is... the title says it is a 63. After two years and fighting it I finally got the right person that could fix it, but I haven't done it yet as there isn't really much of a reason to do so.
With the car having no title I do not believe that it can have a salvage title. I have a friend who had a 73 beetle that was "totaled" but it was a non titled car. He applied for a salvage title and was denied because it is a non titled car and cannot be issued a title... I called the DMV and they said that it is clear to register... so can they technically even total it?
That being said... I just got a call that the company that is picking up the car just called and they are getting it sometime tomorrow.
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Tram
Samba Socialist
Joined: May 02, 2003
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Location: Still Feelin' the Bern- Once you've felt it you can't un- feel it.
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| Posted: Mon Jul 21, 2014 1:50 pm Post subject: |
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| VWGirl wrote: |
I fully expect this to be a 5 figure repair. Especially since I am not settling for rusty and previously repaired parts. So far I have found everything I need but the rear apron NOS... and I have a lead on that... but these parts are stupid expensive and I am not pulling the trigger on anything until I have AKK take a look at the car.
As far as the car being totaled... Nationwide already threw that term out when they came to look at the car... that leaves me with even more questions on if this car can even be considered as totaled? You see in the state of GA titles are not required for cars older that 1985. I have the Arkansas title on the car, but it is still in ddesh's name.... because I fought to get the car registered as a 64, which it is... the title says it is a 63. After two years and fighting it I finally got the right person that could fix it, but I haven't done it yet as there isn't really much of a reason to do so.
With the car having no title I do not believe that it can have a salvage title. I have a friend who had a 73 beetle that was "totaled" but it was a non titled car. He applied for a salvage title and was denied because it is a non titled car and cannot be issued a title... I called the DMV and they said that it is clear to register... so can they technically even total it?
That being said... I just got a call that the company that is picking up the car just called and they are getting it sometime tomorrow. |
http://www.dmv.org/ga-georgia/salvaged-vehicles.php
I found that in way less time than it took you to type that.
Once again... get busy on establishing your replacement value.
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VWGirl
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Joined: June 03, 2003
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Location: Powder Springs, GA
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| Posted: Mon Jul 21, 2014 1:53 pm Post subject: |
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| Tram wrote: |
| VWGirl wrote: |
I fully expect this to be a 5 figure repair. Especially since I am not settling for rusty and previously repaired parts. So far I have found everything I need but the rear apron NOS... and I have a lead on that... but these parts are stupid expensive and I am not pulling the trigger on anything until I have AKK take a look at the car.
As far as the car being totaled... Nationwide already threw that term out when they came to look at the car... that leaves me with even more questions on if this car can even be considered as totaled? You see in the state of GA titles are not required for cars older that 1985. I have the Arkansas title on the car, but it is still in ddesh's name.... because I fought to get the car registered as a 64, which it is... the title says it is a 63. After two years and fighting it I finally got the right person that could fix it, but I haven't done it yet as there isn't really much of a reason to do so.
With the car having no title I do not believe that it can have a salvage title. I have a friend who had a 73 beetle that was "totaled" but it was a non titled car. He applied for a salvage title and was denied because it is a non titled car and cannot be issued a title... I called the DMV and they said that it is clear to register... so can they technically even total it?
That being said... I just got a call that the company that is picking up the car just called and they are getting it sometime tomorrow. |
http://www.dmv.org/ga-georgia/salvaged-vehicles.php |
Thanks, I have read that before, but I do not have a title for my notch, or my 71 fastback, or 73 beetle or 73 thing... I actually asked this question to the tag office as well, but they didnt have an answer. There is no title for me to surrender to the insurance company whether I wanted to or not. And ga will not issue me a title, salvage or not.
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VWGirl
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Location: Powder Springs, GA
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| Posted: Mon Jul 21, 2014 1:56 pm Post subject: |
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I honestly think they just used the wrong verbiage on that site... GA will NOT under any circumstances issue a title before 1962... GA didnt have them before then... 1963-1985 they will issue a title if you have a title... my 78 westy is titled in GA as I transferred my FL title. Anything post 85 has to have a title
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Donnie strickland
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| Posted: Mon Jul 21, 2014 2:48 pm Post subject: |
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I'll tell you how it worked in my case, on a car which required no title:
Last September my 66 Bug was hit from behind. The adjuster came out and looked at the car, and looked on the internet (he didn't say which sites, specifically) for Bug prices. He asked for receipts for any parts I had bought, which I provided. There was some back-and-forth between my attorney and the adjuster, after which we settled on a value. The car was of course totaled, but if I wished, I could keep the car, after subtracting $700 salvage value. I was satisfied with the final offer (which was $1600 more than I paid for the Bug 17 years prior), and I let them have the car.
Since Alabama requires no title for a vehicle older than 1975, this car had never had one. My attorney and the insurance company were initially a little confused by this, since the insurance company gets the title when the car is totaled. Finally they asked for the original bill of sale from when I bought the car, and everything was finished.
The insurance company will total your car. If you want to keep it, you can pay the salvage value, which in my case was $700. Any input from you will help to some degree, and I hope it works out. I hope I'm wrong, but I don't think you will get anything like what it'll cost you to have it fixed correctly, meaning you'll have to pay the difference out of pocket.
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VWGirl
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Joined: June 03, 2003
Posts: 2462
Location: Powder Springs, GA
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| Posted: Mon Jul 21, 2014 2:58 pm Post subject: |
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hmm.... interesting how that might play out... I have no idea where that bill of sale might be. That was 2.5 years ago now.
Have you ever checked to see if your beetle was salvaged in their system? My guess is that they crushed it so that it actually would be listed as destroyed now...
To tell you how backwards GA is... One year I went to renew the tags on my 71 fastback. I hadn't gotten a renewal in the mail and wanted to make sure that it was on the list to get renewed. They told me I could not renew it as they had gotten notification that the vehicle had been crushed... I told them I am looking right at it in the parking lot and no it had not been crushed...
I had almost forgotten that when I bought my fastback from a friend of mine that it was registered to the dash VIN which was that of a 70 squareback. I had to get them to go back and change my VIN in the system which they could even see when it was changed (why I don't know) and I had to get my insurance to change my VIN. I didn't have to step foot in the DMV to to any of this, it was all done over the phone. Nifty eh?
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Tram
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Location: Still Feelin' the Bern- Once you've felt it you can't un- feel it.
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| Posted: Mon Jul 21, 2014 3:01 pm Post subject: |
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| Donnie strickland wrote: |
I'll tell you how it worked in my case, on a car which required no title:
Last September my 66 Bug was hit from behind. The adjuster came out and looked at the car, and looked on the internet (he didn't say which sites, specifically) for Bug prices. He asked for receipts for any parts I had bought, which I provided. There was some back-and-forth between my attorney and the adjuster, after which we settled on a value. The car was of course totaled, but if I wished, I could keep the car, after subtracting $700 salvage value. I was satisfied with the final offer (which was $1600 more than I paid for the Bug 17 years prior), and I let them have the car.
Since Alabama requires no title for a vehicle older than 1975, this car had never had one. My attorney and the insurance company were initially a little confused by this, since the insurance company gets the title when the car is totaled. Finally they asked for the original bill of sale from when I bought the car, and everything was finished.
The insurance company will total your car. If you want to keep it, you can pay the salvage value, which in my case was $700. Any input from you will help to some degree, and I hope it works out. I hope I'm wrong, but I don't think you will get anything like what it'll cost you to have it fixed correctly, meaning you'll have to pay the difference out of pocket. |
I disagree. The insurance company will not just total the car. They can't simply make that decision unilaterally and force it.
This is why I've been telling the OP to do a lot of research and establish a verifiable replacement value for her car. In your case, the key statement is "I was satisfied with the final offer". Had you NOT been satisfied, the case would have gone to court and you would have gotten your redress there provided you proved your case- which would have been that you were not being made whole if you couldn't have even begun to replace the car and get back to pre- accident status with their offer.
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| Bryan67 wrote: |
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KTPhil
Samba Member
Joined: April 06, 2006
Posts: 34012
Location: Conejo Valley, CA
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| Posted: Mon Jul 21, 2014 3:01 pm Post subject: |
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| Keep in mind that the insurance companies may well stumble across this thread and read everything all have posted (for better or worse). |
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