Rebuilt 2.0L FI Type IV, just installed, starts then dies.

timped2006

It's been a long process, but there's a light at the end of the tunnel.

Long story, short...I've finally installed my 2.0L FI Type IV into my '73 Westy. It was in and running before I pulled it to rebuild. I have everything hooked back up. Gas tank is full, vacuum lines are all in, oil is full, new plugs, points, coil, etc.

When I turn it over, it will start, but instantly dies. Even if I stomp the gas to keep it running, it sputters out. Has no problem starting.

I have a 009 in while I wait for my SVDA. It's timed statically to 7.5 BTDC since I can't get it running to time it properly. Could that be part of the problem? I feel like it's a fuel delivery issue because it dies like it's not getting gas, but I tested the fuel pump and it spits out gas when cranked.

Any thoughts? Any more information you need? Thanks.

Tcash · Posted: Fri Jul 11, 2014 10:47 pm Post subject:

If you took the wire off the starter. Make sure they are on right.
Good Luck

timped2006 · Posted: Fri Jul 11, 2014 11:51 pm Post subject:

Thanks, man. I'll check that, but, if that was the case, it wouldn't start at all, right? I hope it's something as simple as that! You'll be the first to know if it is.

Randy in Maine · Posted: Sat Jul 12, 2014 6:42 am Post subject:

Is the little door inside the AFM allowed to swing freely?

Mal evolent · Posted: Sat Jul 12, 2014 6:53 am Post subject:

classic Temp Sensor II symptom. not necessarily a bad TSII, it can be a bear to get the connector on right.
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busdaddy · Posted: Sat Jul 12, 2014 8:04 am Post subject:

If the black wire laying along the left of the engine with the fuse holder is not on coil #15 it'll do that.
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timped2006 · Posted: Sat Jul 12, 2014 1:48 pm Post subject:

Okay...

-The starter looks like it's hooked up per the wiring diagram.

-The AFM flap swings freely.

-The black wire with the fuse is going to the 15+ side of the coil.

-And, I tested the TSII and it gives me 2000 Ohms. Bentley says if it's too far off from 2500, it needs replaced. Is that too far off? Will it not run with a bad TSII?

I've found today that if I lay on the gas, it stays running, but the second I let off, it dies. That makes me think, now, that it's actually not a fuel delivery issue like I originally thought. Maybe more of an idle or air mixture problem. I have the idle speed screw turned out 4.5 turns and the idle mixture screw turned out 6 turns per amskeptic.

Wasted youth · Posted: Sat Jul 12, 2014 1:54 pm Post subject:

One quick test for the TSII is to disconnect it from the wiring harness, and ground it directly to the body/frame. I had a similar problem, and by grounding out the TSII, the engine management controls assumed the engine was warmed up enough. This is a quick test with an alligator clamp test lead.

timped2006 · Posted: Sat Jul 12, 2014 1:57 pm Post subject:

I'll try that. I'm also reading in my Bentley about testing the cold start valve for leaks or fault. Can I just plug it off to see if the engine will run without it?

busdaddy · Posted: Sat Jul 12, 2014 1:58 pm Post subject:

TS2 rarely effects starting, if you unplug it it'll run pig rich and make black smoke but it'll still run. Grounding it will make it go to fully warmed up lean and it'll still run unless there's more than a few vacuum leaks.
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Wasted youth · Posted: Sat Jul 12, 2014 2:07 pm Post subject:

I agree that a bad TSII would allow a start with horrible idle, but thought he'd said it starts then immediately dies...which was one of the problems I had attributed to the TSII. I was about 50/50 on the really bad idle and keeping it running after a start. Anyway, that's a 30 second, no wrenching or new parts install check. Smile

On the other hand, what about vacuum leak? I can start mine with a leaking brake servo unit line, but engine dies quickly.

Wasted youth · Posted: Sat Jul 12, 2014 2:13 pm Post subject:

WhirledTraveller · Posted: Sat Jul 12, 2014 2:14 pm Post subject:

Sounds like classic vacuum leak to me. A million places for them to crop up.
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1977 Westy, Automatic. Big Valve heads, CS Cam.

timped2006 · Posted: Sat Jul 12, 2014 2:39 pm Post subject:

Okay, with the TSII plugged in or out, it does about the same thing.

I can just about keep it running now with full throttle, but it runs SUPER rich. What would make it run so damn rich? Would a vacuum leak cause that?

I started it a couple minutes ago and it got to the point that when I gave it gas, it dropped idle. Could it be so rich it's flooding? And if so, could that be the CSV?

busdaddy · Posted: Sat Jul 12, 2014 3:07 pm Post subject:

Does the flap move freely in the AFM?
_________________
Rust NEVER sleeps and stock never goes out of style.

Please don't PM technical questions, ask your problem in public so everyone can play along. If you think it's too stupid post it here
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Wasted youth · Posted: Sat Jul 12, 2014 3:46 pm Post subject:

So, you previously stated the AFM flap moves freely...it still does, right? And, did you ground out the wiring harness lead to the TS2 to frame ground? Don't just unplug the TS2...you need to unplug it, then connect the wiring harness lead to frame ground. I probably didn't clarify that.

Have you checked for vacuum leaks using a fluid like water, or propane?

What do you think about the CSV?

Wasted youth · Posted: Sat Jul 12, 2014 4:49 pm Post subject:

PM sent...

SGKent · Posted: Sat Jul 12, 2014 5:14 pm Post subject:

check the ground wire on the double relay to be sure it is properly grounded.
Also - as I recall, and it is just from the back of my memory so I could be wrong, the fuel pump works off the starter when the ignition is in the start position and then switches to the double relay when the key if released from start to run. Anything that keeps the double relay from functioning could be at fault.

busdaddy · Posted: Sat Jul 12, 2014 5:17 pm Post subject:

timped2006 · Posted: Sat Jul 12, 2014 6:35 pm Post subject:

Lots of great thoughts, guys. I really appreciate it and I'm going through each idea.

Here's a question that could get me somewhere...I've pulled the air cleaner and I'm pushing the AFM flap with a pencil. It "moves freely" but there is a bit of tension like there's a spring trying to hold it closed. Now, should it really be "free" and the spring is pushing too hard? Or should it take a little force like I'm having to use?

Busdaddy, when you say free, I'm imagining that it should just flop in and out with a good breath or flick of a pencil.


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Rebuilt 2.0L FI Type IV, just installed, starts then dies.
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