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KTPhil 
Samba Member
Joined: April 06, 2006
Posts: 34013
Location: Conejo Valley, CA
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 Posted: Wed Jul 23, 2014 11:43 am Post subject: |
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| Cplatcek wrote: |
| Sooo there is a FI setup for sale in the classifieds, they have it listed as 68-70. Any reason this would be a no go for my 73' motor? |
It can work, but that means you need EVERYthing from the other car. You can't mix ECUs, MPSs, TPSs, and wiring between the three generations of FI:
Gen 1: '68/'69
Gen 2: '70/'71
Gen 3: '72/'73 |
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Cplatcek
Samba Member
Joined: July 12, 2014
Posts: 49
Location: Two Harbors
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| Posted: Wed Jul 23, 2014 2:57 pm Post subject: |
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| KTPhil wrote: |
| Cplatcek wrote: |
| Sooo there is a FI setup for sale in the classifieds, they have it listed as 68-70. Any reason this would be a no go for my 73' motor? |
It can work, but that means you need EVERYthing from the other car. You can't mix ECUs, MPSs, TPSs, and wiring between the three generations of FI:
Gen 1: '68/'69
Gen 2: '70/'71
Gen 3: '72/'73 |
Good to know, Mike F has a setup with all the components that i'm hoping to buy, just need to figure out funds!
Is there any kind of market for the single center carb setups? would be nice to sell mine if i could |
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KTPhil
Samba Member
Joined: April 06, 2006
Posts: 34013
Location: Conejo Valley, CA
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| Posted: Wed Jul 23, 2014 3:04 pm Post subject: |
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| Cplatcek wrote: |
Good to know, Mike F has a setup with all the components that i'm hoping to buy, just need to figure out funds!
Is there any kind of market for the single center carb setups? would be nice to sell mine if i could |
Be sure it also includes the complete engine and chassis FI wiring, right down to the injector grounds. A new wiring harness is like $400...
I hear those carbs make good doorstops and sacrificial metal for boats... |
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Cplatcek
Samba Member
Joined: July 12, 2014
Posts: 49
Location: Two Harbors
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| Posted: Wed Jul 23, 2014 3:16 pm Post subject: |
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| KTPhil wrote: |
I hear those carbs make good doorstops and sacrificial metal for boats... |
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Mike Fisher
Samba Member
Joined: January 30, 2006
Posts: 17970
Location: Eugene, OR
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| Posted: Thu Jul 24, 2014 7:57 am Post subject: |
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| KTPhil wrote: |
| Cplatcek wrote: |
Good to know, Mike F has a setup with all the components that i'm hoping to buy, just need to figure out funds!
Is there any kind of market for the single center carb setups? would be nice to sell mine if i could |
Be sure it also includes the complete engine and chassis FI wiring, right down to the injector grounds. A new wiring harness is like $400...
I hear those carbs make good doorstops and sacrificial metal for boats... |
I promised him all the good FI wiring sections he needs, but I'm thinking most of his should still be installed.
_________________
https://imgur.com/user/FisherSquareback/posts
69 FI/AT square Daily Driver
66 sunroof,67,70,71,71,71AT,72,72AT,73 Parts
two 57 oval ragtops sold
'68 Karmann Ghia sold
Society is like stew. If you don't keep it stirred up you end up with a lot of scum on the top! - Russ_Wolfe/Edward Abbey |
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KTPhil
Samba Member
Joined: April 06, 2006
Posts: 34013
Location: Conejo Valley, CA
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| Posted: Thu Jul 24, 2014 9:06 am Post subject: |
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| Mike Fisher wrote: |
| KTPhil wrote: |
| Cplatcek wrote: |
Good to know, Mike F has a setup with all the components that i'm hoping to buy, just need to figure out funds!
Is there any kind of market for the single center carb setups? would be nice to sell mine if i could |
Be sure it also includes the complete engine and chassis FI wiring, right down to the injector grounds. A new wiring harness is like $400...
I hear those carbs make good doorstops and sacrificial metal for boats... |
I promised him all the good FI wiring sections he needs, but I'm thinking most of his should still be installed. |
Yes, though if he's mixing '69/'70 wiring and his original later wiring he may find trouble. |
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Cplatcek
Samba Member
Joined: July 12, 2014
Posts: 49
Location: Two Harbors
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| Posted: Thu Jul 24, 2014 9:58 am Post subject: |
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| It would be a 73' motor going in to a 71' shell, is there that much different in the two years? I'm not sure what to look for (wiring wise) that would still be in the 71. |
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KTPhil
Samba Member
Joined: April 06, 2006
Posts: 34013
Location: Conejo Valley, CA
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| Posted: Thu Jul 24, 2014 10:23 am Post subject: |
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A '73 motor going into a '71 body with '69/'70 wiring is mixing all three, and is almost guaranteed to be trouble.
That said, you can probably make accommodations if you really study the differences. Some parts can be made to work if wired differently, others are just plain not compatible. Some may even operate, but without features like temperature adjustment, full throttle enrichment, etc., and should be avoided.
Rather than try to list all combos that can work, it may be best if you post up pics of the engine bay, computer, engine wiring and the harness you are thinking of using, as well as part numbers for the ECU, TPS and MPS. Then we can see what plays or not, and advise if you need to buy selected parts to make a workable system.
It may sound like a hassle, but it's not, and you only do this once.
If you want to study up, check out this table. They don't tell you the wiring changes needed between changes, though.
Last edited by KTPhil on Thu Jul 24, 2014 10:27 am; edited 2 times in total |
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Mike Fisher
Samba Member
Joined: January 30, 2006
Posts: 17970
Location: Eugene, OR
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| Posted: Thu Jul 24, 2014 10:24 am Post subject: |
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'73-'71 won't be a big problem as we can change any of the 2 to 5 wire connectors or components. I think I have all the components/wiring to do any Djet system. Look for all the 2 to 4 wire connectors that should be tucked back or taped up in the engine compartment. You need the brown Type 3 Manual by Bentley from www.amazon.com to understand what is happening in there!
_________________
https://imgur.com/user/FisherSquareback/posts
69 FI/AT square Daily Driver
66 sunroof,67,70,71,71,71AT,72,72AT,73 Parts
two 57 oval ragtops sold
'68 Karmann Ghia sold
Society is like stew. If you don't keep it stirred up you end up with a lot of scum on the top! - Russ_Wolfe/Edward Abbey |
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Cplatcek
Samba Member
Joined: July 12, 2014
Posts: 49
Location: Two Harbors
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| Posted: Thu Jul 24, 2014 1:23 pm Post subject: |
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I was getting confused when you mentioned the 69-70, didnt realize those are the years of Mikes parts
Ill look at what i have in the car for wiring and report back... i bought a manual the day after i brought the first car home  |
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KTPhil
Samba Member
Joined: April 06, 2006
Posts: 34013
Location: Conejo Valley, CA
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Cplatcek
Samba Member
Joined: July 12, 2014
Posts: 49
Location: Two Harbors
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| Posted: Fri Jul 25, 2014 8:41 pm Post subject: |
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Yea that might be a good plan, ill have to see what he does...
Are there any seats from other vehicles that people swap into type 3s? I was thinking maybe a set from a Golf? I'm not findinf much for stock options in my area.... |
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Mike Fisher
Samba Member
Joined: January 30, 2006
Posts: 17970
Location: Eugene, OR
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| Posted: Sat Jul 26, 2014 9:01 am Post subject: |
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| Cplatcek wrote: |
I was getting confused when you mentioned the 69-70, didnt realize those are the years of Mikes parts
Ill look at what i have in the car for wiring and report back... i bought a manual the day after i brought the first car home |
I don't think Phil was saying all my parts are '69-'70 as I have '69-'73 parts!  How does your wiring look? Show us some pictures. Easier/better to just find/buy some stock black/brown/white seats and ship them on Greyhound.
_________________
https://imgur.com/user/FisherSquareback/posts
69 FI/AT square Daily Driver
66 sunroof,67,70,71,71,71AT,72,72AT,73 Parts
two 57 oval ragtops sold
'68 Karmann Ghia sold
Society is like stew. If you don't keep it stirred up you end up with a lot of scum on the top! - Russ_Wolfe/Edward Abbey |
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KTPhil
Samba Member
Joined: April 06, 2006
Posts: 34013
Location: Conejo Valley, CA
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| Posted: Sat Jul 26, 2014 9:08 am Post subject: |
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Use the chart to get a consistent set of parts, then we can evaluate what wiring changes, if any, you have to make to update the harness to your parts set.
I'm not sure what you have or are getting, but use the chart as your guide to what works with what. |
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Cplatcek
Samba Member
Joined: July 12, 2014
Posts: 49
Location: Two Harbors
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| Posted: Fri Aug 01, 2014 7:05 am Post subject: |
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I was finally able to tear into the parts car yesterday. Ripped the back seat out to get to the battery cables and yikes it was nasty under there looked like a few squirels and a family of mice made a little resort there for while....
Good news is i dropped a battery in and turned the key and it turned over! Poured some gas in the carb and cranked it over a bunch and it started firing and actually ran! I couldnt keep it running though because im guessing a bad fuel pump or fuel line issue.
Here are some pics i snapped of the wiring i have in the parts one:
Looks like it still has the FI computer and wiring under the seat
Few pics of the parts car motor:
I'm not going to mess with trying to get it running better in the car, going to pull it out of the car and clean it up then put it in the good car. |
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FastyOrange
Samba Member
Joined: November 15, 2012
Posts: 111
Location: Greenville, SC
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| Posted: Fri Aug 01, 2014 7:14 am Post subject: |
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That box you see under the back seat looks like an amplifier for a couple of rear speakers. I see the typical spring-loaded red and black terminals coupled with wire pairs. Take a look in the rear trunk for the compartment holding the FI ecu. There should be a removable panel on the drivers side of the car held in place by a couple of phillips head screws. The ecu should be mounted to this panel.
_________________
72 FI Fastback
70 FI Fastback (Parts Car) |
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W1K1
Samba Member
Joined: March 04, 2004
Posts: 4921
Location: Southern AB
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Cplatcek
Samba Member
Joined: July 12, 2014
Posts: 49
Location: Two Harbors
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| Posted: Fri Aug 01, 2014 7:45 am Post subject: |
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| FastyOrange wrote: |
| That box you see under the back seat looks like an amplifier for a couple of rear speakers. I see the typical spring-loaded red and black terminals coupled with wire pairs. Take a look in the rear trunk for the compartment holding the FI ecu. There should be a removable panel on the drivers side of the car held in place by a couple of phillips head screws. The ecu should be mounted to this panel. |
HAHA, holy cripes!!! I never looked close but now that you say it yea your right its an amp.... 
W1k1 yea i wouldnt be surprised, i also had ants crawling on the air filter....
I'm just happy it runs as is!
Any good tips for removing the motor/trans? Doesnt look to be much to it, couple side bolts on the rear and whatever is up near the trans then drop it out the bottom? |
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eyetzr
Samba Member
Joined: October 09, 2013
Posts: 1425
Location: Toronto, Ontario. Canada
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| Posted: Fri Aug 01, 2014 7:52 am Post subject: |
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nice project. You can pull motor & trans out together, if you pull motor only you will need to support the trans. Take lots of pictures, sometimes people on here will spot items that you may not have paid attention to. Keep going  |
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Cplatcek
Samba Member
Joined: July 12, 2014
Posts: 49
Location: Two Harbors
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| Posted: Fri Aug 01, 2014 8:15 am Post subject: |
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| eyetzr wrote: |
| nice project. You can pull motor & trans out together, if you pull motor only you will need to support the trans. Take lots of pictures, sometimes people on here will spot items that you may not have paid attention to. Keep going |
Thanks! Yup im going to pull the motor and trans together |
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