dual and single spring plate

Cortland15B · Posted: Mon Jul 14, 2014 7:36 pm Post subject: dual and single spring plate

I'm doing a full restoration to my 1970 baja and I am having trouble with assembling the rear suspension. But before I go into the details I have 1 question. When assembling the suspension, you have the spring plate on, the spring plate cover on but not touching the spring plate. The diagonal arm is in and kinda tight at the pivot bolt only.

Do you (A) with the diagonal arm pushed up high against the stop, you then start jacking up the spring plate and lowering the diagonal arm at the same time so as you jack it up brings them both together. You do this until the spring plate is above the stop.

Or do you (B) with the diagonal arm as low as it can go, you jack up the spring plate until its on the stop, and Then you jack up the diagonal arm into the proper position.

Which one do you do? I have been doing (A), if its supposed to be (B) I will try (B) and then get back with you. But if (A) is actually right then I'll go into more detail.
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Dale M. · Posted: Mon Jul 14, 2014 8:06 pm Post subject:

I usually get spring plate on stop, then jockey diagonal arm into place which it usually is pretty close at this point anyway....... In the end it does not really matter, its what is easiest for you....

Dale
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Cortland15B · Posted: Mon Jul 14, 2014 10:30 pm Post subject:

So I just went out and tried way (B) and had the same result. So we need some background on all the parts that I am using. The original car was a 1970 baja, the pan was rusted out so I replaced it with a 1971 standard pan. Each have there own set of suspension components. 2 single spring plates and 2 dual spring plates along with their matching trailing arms. The dual spring plates' trailing arms I planned on boxing, but plans changed so now they are useless. They have the bump stop and lower shock mount cut off, I do still have the stuff I cut off but I'd rather not reattach them. So I then grab the single spring plates' trailing arms (which are in better condition) and hook them up to the car. I used 2 washer on the outside on the trailings arm pivot bolt. Wanting to use the dual spring plate I hook that up too. Today I've been trying to get these 2 parts working. I've done both (A) and (B) with the same result.

The problem is that every time I try to get the trailing arm to seat inside the dual spring plate the inner spring plate hits the trailing arm at the base of the big 1/2" tab with the bolt holes in them. And yes, I know that the bolt pattern doesn't match up, I will deal with that if I ever get this to work. Heres pics, you can see where the paint is chipped, thats where it is hitting.

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.

What do you guys think is wrong and how do I fix it?
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Multi-year baja project that seems to never end
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Dale M. · Posted: Tue Jul 15, 2014 5:40 am Post subject:

Also you will have to drill trailing arm for 3 bolt.... Other than that you just have to make it fit.... With mix and match parts there is no easy answer, that is why they make drills, files, grinders and various assorted tools.... Things being just close and scratched paint on assembly is order of the day.... Welcome to buggyville...

Something that may help you is back out pivot bolt a few turns and it will take pressure off pivot and let you have some more freedom to align spring plates.... When doing this sort of assembly always fit all bolts and components loose and come back and tighten later....

Dale
_________________
“Fear The Government That Wants To Take Your Guns" - Thomas Jefferson.

"Kellison Sand Piper Roadster" For Street & Show.
"Joe Pody Sandrover" Buggy with 2180 for Autocross (Sold)
============================================================
All suggestions and advice are purely my own opinion. You are free to ignore them if you wish ...

ORANGECRUSHer · Posted: Tue Jul 15, 2014 6:21 am Post subject:

If it makes you feel any better I just serviced these on my '70 but with just the single plates and could not get anything to move around and line up while still attached to the car like everyone told me I should be able to do. It was absolutely necessary to remove the arm completely inorder to get the spring plate where I needed it and then position the arm with a bolt loosely through the spring plate and screw in the pivot bolt then finish with the rest of the spring plate bolts. There was a lot of cussing mainly because this wasn't my first time messing with VW spring plates but I've never had a car that was such a PITA. Maybe it's something with the '70s model that most people haven't noticed yet? This wasn't my first time at the rodeo but it sure felt like it.

GL I hope you get it to work the way you want.
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Cortland15B · Posted: Tue Jul 15, 2014 7:54 am Post subject:

This makes me ask if the dual spring plate is really THAT worth it. Is it really that much stronger? Do single spring plates break very often or do other components fail first? I might have to take the rear apart again after I drive it to adjust the preload. This would be a pain to have to go through again. Yeah this isn't my first time assembling this stuff, I did it on my 1970 car with all 1970 parts and it was easy compared to this. I've had the pivot bolt loose and I tried it with the trailing arm off but it still doesn't want to agree with the angles. Can anyone else give me some tips?
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Vanapplebomb · Posted: Tue Jul 15, 2014 9:02 am Post subject:

From my build thread. This might give you some ideas to use 3 bolt trailing arms with 4 bolt spring plates.

hooker · Posted: Tue Jul 15, 2014 9:29 am Post subject: spring plates

One thing you want to be sure of before you drill and tap holes is that the rear suspension is set up with the correct toe in and toe out. I use 1/4" toe in on drag vehicles and set stock toe in to 1/16th or dead on. I've seen the toe in or toe out off by as much as 1/2". Helps to ruin tires and gas mileage.
I have used the single spring plates on everything including my sand rails and have never broken any of them.
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ORANGECRUSHer · Posted: Tue Jul 15, 2014 9:37 am Post subject:

tsj5677 · Posted: Tue Jul 15, 2014 9:49 am Post subject:

Here's a pic of a broken spring plate I encountered while taking apart the rear of mine. It was like that when I got the buggy and extra holes drilled in it and trailing arm to reattach. Not sure what broke it for sure, but the suspension was set very stiff front and back when I got it assuming at some point the buggy was jumped regularly. Not saying it's common.
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ORANGECRUSHer · Posted: Tue Jul 15, 2014 10:20 am Post subject:

well there you go! Now I seen one. lol
thanks
haha
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Brian H.
I may not know everything,but I will try to help if I can
OrangeCrushER Berrien Warrior 2.4L Quad4
LAZY MARY 1970 Baja ~~1835cc~~

Cortland15B · Posted: Tue Jul 15, 2014 10:59 am Post subject:

Thats the 2nd broken one I've found, the first was in the gallery but none of the parts were stock and it looked like one of those big racers. First stock one I've seen broken.

I'm leaning towards doing the single spring plate. When I have to readjust the preload, and its a matter of when because it will happen eventually, I will not want to have to do this again. Not to mention the body of the car will be on and I won't have this nice work area to do this like I do now. I will not be jumping this car at all, this is going to be my daily driver in the summer with the occasional off-road excursion, which in Wisconsin means fire roads, dirt trails, and gravel backroads.

I also want to do a sand rail project after I finish the baja and after college. Thats what I plan on using my other suspension components for. I wanted to use the dual spring plate on the heavier car. But using the dual spring plates on the sand rail might be better after all. Its going to be the one that I will definitely ride hard and possibly jump. It will also give the the opportunity to notch the spring plate and still retain the strength. I want to keep the suspension stock on the baja so it was never my plan to notch it.

So I guess it looks like the single spring plate is the best option for me. Unless some one has a easy way to get this setup to work every time whether the body is on or off the car.
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Multi-year baja project that seems to never end
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=498587&highlight=budget+baja

ORANGECRUSHer · Posted: Tue Jul 15, 2014 12:19 pm Post subject:

that's what I'd do too. sp's are soo much easier to play with on a rail.
_________________
Brian H.
I may not know everything,but I will try to help if I can
OrangeCrushER Berrien Warrior 2.4L Quad4
LAZY MARY 1970 Baja ~~1835cc~~

Cortland15B · Posted: Tue Jul 15, 2014 12:33 pm Post subject:

Vanapplebomb · Posted: Tue Jul 15, 2014 3:48 pm Post subject:

oldschool5er · Posted: Tue Jul 15, 2014 7:23 pm Post subject:

I use SAW....never broke any in racing or playing even using 28mm torsions, they are not that expensive considering the consequences if a spring plate broke out in the middle of no where. But like has been said before keep everything loose, I have always put them on the stop first then the Arm.

Vanapplebomb · Posted: Tue Jul 15, 2014 7:35 pm Post subject:

I put them on the stops first as well.

I have found that it is easier to run the trailing arm pivot bolt in AFTER the arm is attached to dual spring plates. The spring plate bolts don't have to be torqued down, just run through finger tight so the arm can't pop out from between the plates while torquing down the pivot bolt. Once the pivot bolt is torqued down, then set toe in.
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ORANGECRUSHer · Posted: Tue Jul 15, 2014 8:56 pm Post subject:

Cortland15B · Posted: Tue Jul 15, 2014 9:32 pm Post subject:

wbrown45 · Posted: Sat Jul 19, 2014 8:50 pm Post subject:


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