A General Question About Keeping a Car Original

[shortride]

I don't want to open a can of worms here but a question has been plaguing me about how important it is to keep a car original.

I have always been one that really like the original look on a VW Beetle. Mine being a 1966 Sedan lacks in a few areas being original or at least period correct. We're all motivated for different reason for those that like to keep their cars as original as possible but my question is, if I'm not going to spend the time and money to make my '66 absolutely original then any effort at all is real just a waste of time, right? I mean once you deviate from originality it really doesn't matter what is done to the car. It doesn't do any good to be able to say my car is only partially original, right?
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Pearl White 1966 Sedan

Retired US Army - 21 years 11B40, 173rd Airborne Brig. - Vietnam Combat Veteran

[noah2burchell]

IMO i think as long as it is being restored to original you are doing the right thing. It may not be exactly original but it will be restored original and anything that has original after it is a gem in my eyes.
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Wanted: Anything from Risacher Motors VW dealership in Morristown, Tennessee or Westgate VW in St. Louis Missouri.

Original flat window 1302 Super Beetle

[KTPhil]

Sort of depends on what you mean by "original." Several alternates:

1. Museum type clean and numbers-matching. Anything you do to modify it will take away its value. Just looking at it probably takes off a few percent. There are very few VWs in this category.
2. Dirty, dusty, worn out but original paint and parts. There is a current fashion to value "original dusty" and somehow the rattiness doesn't bother the buyer. Seems pretty foolish to me; "DAMMIT, you washed my car and now it's worth $10K less!!" This only really applies to rare and expensive cars. I don't think there are ANY VWs in category other than maybe the one Woody Allen found in "Sleeper."
3. Worn and used, but no body, dash or suspension mods. There are many of these and they are valued either to keep in that condition, or as a candidate for a restoration without have to "un-hack" prior owner foolishness.
4. Worn out, rusted, daily driver that has seen a hard life. Yes, it's original, but too much work to "bring back" so they are at best parts cars.
5. Modified but reversible. These cars have bolt-on changes that can be reversed back to "original configuration." Mods might be suspension, seats, wheels. These are good candidates to leave as-is or to return to original configuration.
6. Semi-original. I have modified my cars using genuine VW parts from other years or models, so it's still "pure VW" but not as it came off the dealer's lot. I have added side markers, a stock sunroof and popouts, and a second horn to my one-owner late fastback. It is in the spirit of original since it uses VW parts but it is no longer pure original. It makes it a better daily driver but it can't be returned to dead stock.

It sounds like you may also like #6-- original flavor but perhaps a few "user-friendly" mods to increase your enjoyment or utility of the car.

[79SuperVert]

I like to say my car is "lucky". I'm the sixth owner, it's been in a fender bender, the engine is not original, the doors were repainted, there's been some less than stellar repairs to the paint, but the body has never been separated from the chassis, it looks nice, and many of the owners have lavished original parts and a lot of love on it. All those nice things may not make it worth a lot of money, but I love talking about it and people love looking at it. What's that worth?
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Central Jersey VW Society

Wanted: Art Collins VW (Savannah, Georgia) items - license plate surrounds and other items. Also ivory "AM", "FM" and "SW" buttons for a US Blaupunkt Frankfurt.

[ebenasky]

Personally - I look at it as how you are going to use the car. My '64 isn't pristine - but I've tried to keep it original. However, I've added things like 12v, dual circuit brakes, and other changes that make it a good daily driver.

On a different note - I've got a '60 (Actually Dec of '59) that I've been lucky to find a '59 engine for. I'm in process of bringing it back closer to "original" with 6v and all. I do NOT plan on using this as a daily driver - but it WILL be driven from time to time.

Lucky is the person that finds that one after 40-50 some years that has all original parts and is still running well. I guess the closest I have is my '74 Super that even has the original carpet and trunk liner. I "think" the only thing not original in the car is the transmission as the P.O. told me it had lost reverse and needed replacing.

And if I had a '54 that was numbers matching and in pristine condition - I would probably have more money than I knew what to do with. Or, I owned a museum.
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"I don't fix 'em to look at 'em, I fix them to drive."

- '60 Beetle "Ruby"
- '70 Beetle "Peace"

[vwracerdave]

Enjoy your car the way you want.

I personally do appreciate people that have original VW's and enjoy looking at them. I have no interest myself in owning or driving an original stock VW. All my VW's are modified and drag raced which is what I enjoy. When I see you at the show I'll look and admire it. I do enjoy looking at other peoples original VW's.

Now as far as that rusted patina, hoodride crap...........................
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2017 Street Comp Champion - Thunder Valley Raceway Park - Noble, OK
2010 Sportsman ET Champion - Mid-America Dragway - Arkansas City, KS
1997 Sportsman ET Champion - Thunder Valley Raceway Park - Noble ,OK

[Mr Mike]

With regard to "original" I agree with noah2Burchell.
I also own a 1966 bug / sedan which I bought new in June of '66 from Truman Motors Volkswagen in El Cajon, a suburb of San Diego. I'm a 30 year retired navy guy, (1957 - 1987) who was stationed at NAS Miramar
back in the day when I bought the car. At the time it was my first ever new car. Over the years, I've driven it back and forth across the states four times plus many other trips with wife, daughter and dogs. I still drive it today, although not as much. I also roll a '63 15 window that I've owned nearly 20 years.
The '66 is still original as far as how its set up. That is to say its still like I got it from the dealer with no additional "stuff" added. Still stock 1300 engine set up as it was back in the day. That said, I've had it painted ( same color; Java green. I've maintained the car with stock materiels, but over time when some items were out of production, I've gone to newer stuff.
20 years ago while in college, my daughter had the windshield washer experience a leaking hose that "killed" the AM/FM sapphire IV radio originaly installed in the car ( water soaked) I was working in Japan at the time, so she had the radio pulled out and installed a Pioneer stereo unit. Later I had the radio repaired, then upgraded to 12 volt and stuck it in my '63 bus.
So I guess in that respect, maybe its not original? I don't know. I think it is.
Over the years I've kept every scrap of paper that came with the car. Maintenance records, the window sticker, the original sales contract, plus receipts for all the pieces and parts I've bought. I can pretty much document every mile on the car. So to me its all pretty original.
For that reason, I go along with Mr. Burchell. I've kept my bus up the same way. its been local to the Seattle area since delivered here new in '63 and I'm the 3rd owner. Not "bone stock" to the "N'th" degree but very close.

[irvanm]

I like "pretty much original" cars, cars that may have been painted 20 or 25 years ago, have a few scratches or dings but nice enough looking. Kind of good used car condition. That said, you should enjoy your car however it please you to do so.

[shortride]

What got me to thinking about it is that my car had been re-painted the original color but they did it without removing all of the glass. When I had the windshield replaced and new pop-outs installed it left a noticeable line where the new and old paint meets. If I decide to have that corrected I was thinking about taking all of the interior out and change the color and replace the rubber floor liner with carpet. I don't normally like Black paint but with a Pigalle red interior I think it would really pop.
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Pearl White 1966 Sedan

Retired US Army - 21 years 11B40, 173rd Airborne Brig. - Vietnam Combat Veteran

[andk5591]

As mentioned (and there is plenty of debate everywhere on this topic), original is original - no mods, no repaints, etc. These cars are typically trailer queens, if they ever get out of the museum or garage.

Or another example is a true barn find - I was freaking over a 67 that I just ran across that looked to be one of those. Its well used with almost 100K miles on it and it looks it. But everything was there and it wasnt hit and isnt rusted. Preservation of somethimg like this should be the main focus. BUT the closer I looked, there was a partial repaint at one time. This changed everything. Car is no longer original.

Then you get into various levels of restoration.

Its like this (IMHO) your car has had enough done already that it cant be original - so that goes away. So, do what you want - why not paint it the color you want?
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D-Dubya Manx clone - 63 Short pan,1914.
Rosie 65 bug - My mostly stock daily driver.
Woodie 69 VW woodie (Hot VWs 7/12).
"John's car" 64 VW woodie - The first ever
Maxine 61 Cal-look bug - Cindy's daily driver.
Max - 73 standard Beetle hearse project - For sale
66 bug project - Real patina & Suby conversion
There's more, but not keeping them...

[Towel Rail]

[shortride]

[Towel Rail]

[hitest]

Your car, though really nice, is no longer original- nor will it ever be. Similarly, there's no such thing as "restored original." Only restored-stock.

That said, If painting the car black will help you enjoy this already unoriginal car more- do it! If white floats your boat- keep it. Black bugs are far more rare- and timeless. I say paint it again- but take out the windows, soldier!
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[VWCOOL]

Any car can be restored or modified several times... but it can only be original once!

I too have cars that are no longer original, but after playing with bright colours, modern wheels etc in the past, I now put effort into making things look 'era correct' which appeals to me.

[noah2burchell]

[johnnypan]

If you plan on driving the car daily with the least worries Ive found a blend of parts from different years works best...Late model doghouse cooling and an alternator is far superior than an early fan shroud and generator for instance...self supporting starter is another..

A lot of these style improvements can be made to a beetle while still maintaining a stock look,to the untrained eye..


That and I'm pretty quick to tell an 'amateur' judge wannabe who turns his nose up at my bucket to fuck off with a quickness.

[6T5 square]

I have a barn find car. 2 owners-one of them a priest. The car was dirty no rust and all original. surface rust. I had the same decision you had. What I did was take the car apart, clean rebuild if needed, replace only if I HAD to. My theory is, it's only original once. The older gentleman I bought it from would be proud to drive it. 10 years down the road, maybe I might want a bigger motor or a lower stance but I wouldn't do anything to it that I cant reverse. The cars are worth more original, otherwise your expecting to find someone to that likes the way you customized a ride to buy your car. And suffer the wrath of everyone on the samba saying your expecting too much for your car
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John
65 square 1500S (weezer) sold but always on my mind
60 beetle (Ned)

Quoting John Muir -- Open the rear boot. Get out the stool and sit down. Contemplate the air-cooled beauty before you. - How to Keep Your Volkswagen Alive -- Step-By-Step Procedures for the Compleat Idiot

[shortride]

[hitest]