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Central Syncronizer
Samba Member
Joined: November 19, 2008
Posts: 302
Location: Vancouver
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 Posted: Fri Jul 18, 2014 6:03 pm Post subject: Syncro locker transaxle question |
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For the locker transaxle gurus 
I've got a transaxle with a bit of wear on the input shaft caused by a bad flywheel pilot bearing.
I have a good input shaft in my spares that I'm thinking of swapping in to replace the worn one. I'm wondering if it's possible to remove the engine end of the input shaft without pulling the diff.
Specifically, is there enough room by the diff (locker model) to slide the splined sleeve and unthread the flywheel end of the input shaft?
I'm on the fence about doing the job as the wear is not too bad, and I don't mind pulling the bell housing if I can leave the diff in place to do the swap.
Thanks |
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gears
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Joined: October 28, 2002
Posts: 4391
Location: Tamarack, Bend, Kailua
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| Posted: Fri Jul 18, 2014 6:57 pm Post subject: |
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The diff doesn't have to be removed, but you'll have to remove the flanges, loosen the left hand side adjuster, and remove the plastic vacuum lock actuator so that the diff can be moved to the left/down a bit.
_________________
aka Pablo, Geary
9.36 @ 146 in '86 Hot & Sticky
'90 Syncro Westy SVX
'87 Syncro GL 2.5
https://guardtransaxle.com |
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Central Syncronizer
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Joined: November 19, 2008
Posts: 302
Location: Vancouver
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| Posted: Fri Jul 18, 2014 8:25 pm Post subject: |
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| gears wrote: |
| The diff doesn't have to be removed, but you'll have to remove the flanges, loosen the left hand side adjuster, and remove the plastic vacuum lock actuator so that the diff can be moved to the left/down a bit. |
Perfect, thanks Gears!
cheers,
Jay |
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1vw4x4
Banned
Joined: June 22, 2005
Posts: 472
Location: Pgh. PA
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| Posted: Sat Jul 19, 2014 12:23 pm Post subject: |
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| gears wrote: |
| The diff doesn't have to be removed, but you'll have to remove the flanges, loosen the left hand side adjuster, and remove the plastic vacuum lock actuator so that the diff can be moved to the left/down a bit. |
What he said......
Only thing is the diff bearing carrier may require a special tools if it
happened to be very tight. I've been able to remove about 1/2 of all these
without the tool, but as old as these things are I would not count on it. |
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Central Syncronizer
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Joined: November 19, 2008
Posts: 302
Location: Vancouver
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| Posted: Wed Jul 23, 2014 10:24 am Post subject: |
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| gears wrote: |
| The diff doesn't have to be removed, but you'll have to remove the flanges, loosen the left hand side adjuster, and remove the plastic vacuum lock actuator so that the diff can be moved to the left/down a bit. |
...worked perfectly, reassembled and now in the doka.
On initial removal of the bellhousing I found that the crank end of the input shaft was slightly loose at the spline sleeve where it threaded in. On reassembly I was able to snug it on the thread without much effort before sliding the splined sleeve back in place.
This leaves me wondering why or how the shaft came to be threaded on loosely. Was it possibly done this way intentionally during initial assembly or did the threads somehow wear (they didn't appear to have any unusual wear and the stud was tight in the gearbox end of the shaft).
I had driven this transaxle and removed it from my parts van myself. It drove and shifted flawlessly, with no main bearing noise whatsoever. The input shaft needle bearing (from what I can see of it) looks tight as well.
thoughts?
cheers and thanks,
Jay
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Ongoing restoration/maintenance of my syncro double cab (and soon Westy):
http://88syncrodoka.blogspot.com/ |
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Howesight
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Joined: July 02, 2008
Posts: 3274
Location: Vancouver, B.C.
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| Posted: Wed Jul 23, 2014 10:40 am Post subject: |
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Hey Central:
Sorry to bear bad news, but the input shaft is not supposed to be threaded tightly to the shaft it mates to. The alignment along the input shaft to the pilot bearing is not a matter of scientific precision, which is why there is some designed-in clearance, both at the point where the two shafts meet, and also clearance in the sleeve itself.
The problem that can arise is that the stud can break and then allow the input shaft to move.
At least, this is what Daryl Christiansen told me way back when I installed my Smallcar bellhousing.
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'86 Syncro Westy SVX |
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insyncro
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Joined: March 07, 2002
Posts: 15086
Location: New York
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| Posted: Wed Jul 23, 2014 12:16 pm Post subject: |
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| Howesight wrote: |
Hey Central:
Sorry to bear bad news, but the input shaft is not supposed to be threaded tightly to the shaft it mates to. The alignment along the input shaft to the pilot bearing is not a matter of scientific precision, which is why there is some designed-in clearance, both at the point where the two shafts meet, and also clearance in the sleeve itself.
The problem that can arise is that the stud can break and then allow the input shaft to move.
At least, this is what Daryl Christiansen told me way back when I installed my Smallcar bellhousing. |
FYI, the SC bellhousing has been updated and is a much, much better design now. |
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Central Syncronizer
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Joined: November 19, 2008
Posts: 302
Location: Vancouver
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| Posted: Wed Jul 23, 2014 1:18 pm Post subject: |
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| Howesight wrote: |
Hey Central:
Sorry to bear bad news, but the input shaft is not supposed to be threaded tightly to the shaft it mates to. The alignment along the input shaft to the pilot bearing is not a matter of scientific precision, which is why there is some designed-in clearance, both at the point where the two shafts meet, and also clearance in the sleeve itself.
The problem that can arise is that the stud can break and then allow the input shaft to move.
At least, this is what Daryl Christiansen told me way back when I installed my Smallcar bellhousing. |
LOL, bad news better now than later!
Thanks Howe, I was wondering about that very thing. It seemed really loose when I first pulled it apart (to the point that it was able to stretch the seal at the oil slinger; so probably 2 splines away from tight). When I put it back together I still had to leave a bit of play at the thread ("snug" was a bad choice of word) when sliding the sleeve back on. I don't think the stud will take any significant load from the way I've got it now.
For reference and to be sure, I made a quick video clip of the play left in the shaft after I put it all back together. Its a lot less than it was and I'm hoping it will be adequate for any lateral movement from the flywheel or caused by clutch application. I'll show it to a friend who has a lot of experience with these and get his opinion. Fingers crossed it won't have to come back out.
_________________
Ongoing restoration/maintenance of my syncro double cab (and soon Westy):
http://88syncrodoka.blogspot.com/ |
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gears
Samba Member
Joined: October 28, 2002
Posts: 4391
Location: Tamarack, Bend, Kailua
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| Posted: Wed Jul 23, 2014 1:33 pm Post subject: |
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The quill shaft is supposed to be loose. If you tightened it, I would strongly suggest you do the job over, and back off at least 3 splines from snug.
Owning a Bentley manual can save you a lot of time in the long run.
_________________
aka Pablo, Geary
9.36 @ 146 in '86 Hot & Sticky
'90 Syncro Westy SVX
'87 Syncro GL 2.5
https://guardtransaxle.com |
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Central Syncronizer
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Joined: November 19, 2008
Posts: 302
Location: Vancouver
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| Posted: Wed Jul 23, 2014 2:32 pm Post subject: |
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| gears wrote: |
The quill shaft is supposed to be loose. If you tightened it, I would strongly suggest you do the job over, and back off at least 3 splines from snug.
Owning a Bentley manual can save you a lot of time in the long run. |
Thanks to both of you for this. Another late night in the shop!
cheers,
J
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Ongoing restoration/maintenance of my syncro double cab (and soon Westy):
http://88syncrodoka.blogspot.com/ |
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gears
Samba Member
Joined: October 28, 2002
Posts: 4391
Location: Tamarack, Bend, Kailua
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| Posted: Wed Jul 23, 2014 3:00 pm Post subject: |
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Do NOT reuse the flange circlips. A new one is installed by first expanding it just enough to get it onto the end of the stub axle, and then whacking it home with a hammer and socket (or sleeve) that's just barely large enough to fit over the stub axle. The squarely struck socket momentarily compresses the Belleville washer enough to allow the circlip to pop into the groove.
_________________
aka Pablo, Geary
9.36 @ 146 in '86 Hot & Sticky
'90 Syncro Westy SVX
'87 Syncro GL 2.5
https://guardtransaxle.com |
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crazyvwvanman
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Joined: January 28, 2008
Posts: 9938
Location: Orbiting San Diego
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| Posted: Wed Jul 23, 2014 4:06 pm Post subject: |
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Yes, you are supposed to back it off a bit after it snugs down on the threaded stud. Various places in the Bentley mention this.
35.5
35.5a
35.65a
35.94 Syncro
Mark |
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