Author |
Message |
peteandvanessa Samba Member
Joined: July 01, 2009 Posts: 931 Location: Sacramento
|
Posted: Tue Jul 22, 2014 10:27 am Post subject: Phoenix - A 1971 VW Westie returns from the Ashes |
|
|
My Son recently purchase a really nice 1971 VW Bay Window Bus.
Here it is in all it's glory.
We installed a rebuilt Steering box, refreshed a few things and relocated the Fuel filter and fuel lines. An replaced ALL of the fuel lines.
Then this happened last Saturday on the way to a meet.
We suspect either the brass inlet to the carb broke free, or the fuel overflow vent lines leaked and started the fire.
No one was hurt, but the Bus was burnt out. The body is still pretty solid and is still a "roller".
So we had it towed to a local VW Enthusiast garage.
The VW community rallied round, so this Sunday we will begin the clean up and tear down. The VW community has already sourced a lot of parts for us to help us with the rebuild, without them we would have collapsed and just cried
It's going to be a long road, but Phoenix will literally rise from the Ashes. _________________ My 1974 Standard Build Thread:
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=568220&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=0
My Son's 1971 Bay Window Westie Build Thread:
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?p=7295189#7295189 |
|
Back to top |
|
|
Bala Samba Member
Joined: December 04, 2003 Posts: 2613 Location: Austin, TX
|
Posted: Tue Jul 22, 2014 11:15 am Post subject: |
|
|
Dang, that's sad.
Hope those rear panels aren't too warped from the heat.
Awesome that you've jumped so quickly into getting it back on the road! _________________ 1976 Westy
1966 Beetle |
|
Back to top |
|
|
JDub113 Samba Member
Joined: June 08, 2009 Posts: 758 Location: Reno
|
Posted: Tue Jul 22, 2014 11:28 am Post subject: |
|
|
Wow. Main thing is that you are both safe! I've been meaning to head to the hardware store to buy a bigger fire extinguisher just in case. I've got a small "Kiddie" brand and will probably just mount another inside somewhere. _________________ 84 Wolfsburg Edition Westy |
|
Back to top |
|
|
peteandvanessa Samba Member
Joined: July 01, 2009 Posts: 931 Location: Sacramento
|
|
Back to top |
|
|
Bala Samba Member
Joined: December 04, 2003 Posts: 2613 Location: Austin, TX
|
Posted: Tue Jul 22, 2014 12:33 pm Post subject: |
|
|
peteandvanessa wrote: |
My humble advice would be to get the biggest Fire extinguisher you can (like the one's you might see in an office). |
And, to add a little to that. See if you can find a local "safety supply" store. I have one near my house and they sold me a nice one with a metal handle/nozzle. This style can be re-charged. I would stay away from disposable extinguishers. As a bonus they said if it every needs a re-charge, just bring it by and they would do it for free! _________________ 1976 Westy
1966 Beetle |
|
Back to top |
|
|
justcruzin Samba Member
Joined: July 31, 2005 Posts: 1493 Location: United States
|
|
Back to top |
|
|
my59 Samba Member
Joined: August 13, 2003 Posts: 3780 Location: connecting the dots
|
Posted: Tue Jul 22, 2014 6:58 pm Post subject: |
|
|
justcruzin wrote: |
The fire department did knock out every window except for the wing windows and door windows.
|
That was nice of them. Look on the bright side- nothing quite like a new windshield! Great to hear there a bunch of people helping out. _________________ my59: Well son, my grandfather died before I got to drive it, so does that answer your question?
our79: sunroof bus w/camper interior and 2.0 FI
Other:'12 Jetta, '77 Benz 300D, and a 74 MG Midget. |
|
Back to top |
|
|
wcfvw69 Samba Purist
Joined: June 10, 2004 Posts: 13382 Location: Arizona
|
Posted: Tue Jul 22, 2014 7:02 pm Post subject: |
|
|
Glad the bus is being saved! Did you figure out why the fire started? _________________ Contact me at [email protected]
Follow me on instagram @sparxwerksllc
Decades of VW and VW parts restoration experience.
The Samba member since 2004.
**Now rebuilding throttle bodies for VW's and Porsche's**
**Restored German Bosch distributors for sale or I can restore yours**
**Restored German Pierburg fuel pumps for sale or I can restore yours**
**Restored Porsche fuel pumps or I can restore yours**
**Restored Porsche distributors or I can restore yours** |
|
Back to top |
|
|
peteandvanessa Samba Member
Joined: July 01, 2009 Posts: 931 Location: Sacramento
|
|
Back to top |
|
|
peteandvanessa Samba Member
Joined: July 01, 2009 Posts: 931 Location: Sacramento
|
Posted: Tue Jul 22, 2014 7:33 pm Post subject: |
|
|
justcruzin wrote: |
I'm the enthusiast that is storing the bus for them. I can tell you that the metal is just as it was before the fire, solid. The only area that looks to have got weakened is the rear door. We have a replacement for that so not a concern. The fire department did knock out every window except for the wing windows and door windows. That is why it looks so bad. We are going to have a burnt bus cleaning party once the insurance is done with it. I think after that, all will be surprised on how well it did survive the fire.
The Phoenix will rise again!
|
Wasn't sure you wanted to be named in the thread Kim.
All I can say is, if your VW (Bus or Bug) ever needs help from someone, then you CANNOT find anyone better than Kim, her Husband Bob, and Dewey (friend of theirs) and Cody (their son). Dewey's truck even got kicked out of the garage for the Burnt Bus, dedication!!!
Without their help and resources we would be lost as sea, crying in a heap and totally down.
They gave us the hope we can come back from the ashes and come back we will _________________ My 1974 Standard Build Thread:
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=568220&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=0
My Son's 1971 Bay Window Westie Build Thread:
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?p=7295189#7295189 |
|
Back to top |
|
|
airschooled Air-Schooled
Joined: April 04, 2012 Posts: 12686 Location: on a bike ride somewhere
|
Posted: Tue Jul 22, 2014 8:40 pm Post subject: |
|
|
Sorry that this had to happen
For the education of us all, could you tell us a few things?
Fuel line brand, size, and age?
Clamps? What kind?
How hard did you pull the old line to get it off the carb? (Hint- if you pulled at all you likely loosened the inlet nipple.)
Did you have a metal line through a grommet through the firewall?
Best of luck getting it rebuilt!
Robbie _________________ Learn how your vintage VW works. And why it doesn't!
One-on-one tech help for your Volkswagen:
www.airschooled.com |
|
Back to top |
|
|
peteandvanessa Samba Member
Joined: July 01, 2009 Posts: 931 Location: Sacramento
|
Posted: Wed Jul 23, 2014 7:49 am Post subject: |
|
|
Hi Robbie.
See comments below:
For the education of us all, could you tell us a few things?
Fuel line brand, size, and age?
All the soft fuel lines were replaced from the Fuel tank to the Carb, I also relocated the fuel filter to under the chassis, well away from the heat exchangers and header. The fuel lines were brand new.
I purchased two sizes of fuel pipe from my local Flaps store (I think it was around 5/16" and 1/4" or there abouts. I initially put on the larger diameter pipe, but after fitting I wasn't happy with it, it was a little loose, so I removed the larger fuel pipe lines and installed the smaller diameter fuel pipe which fitted well. The fuel pipe was the Non-Braided type.
Clamps? What kind?
I used the screw type clamps
How hard did you pull the old line to get it off the carb? (Hint- if you pulled at all you likely loosened the inlet nipple.)
I pulled the old line off the carb, it had been on there a while, it was pretty easy to pull off, I didn't really have to pull that hard to remove it. During removal I didn't notice any movement or play in the brass inlet pipe to the carb. However, I should have wired the clamp around the inlet to the carb.
Did you have a metal line through a grommet through the firewall?
I checked this during the installation. The hard line through the firewall went through a rubber grommet. When I first installed the new soft fuel pipes I noticed the hard line had a nick on one end that was close to the heat exchangers. I therefore went to the trouble of pulling the hardline out and inspecting it. Sure enough, there was a nick in the hard line at one end, so I cut about an inch off the end that was nicked, filed the ends down smooth with a file and then re-installed. After start up I also checked for any drips or leaks from all lines, right from the bottom of the fuel tank to the fuel filter, onto the hard line, then to the fuel pump and then onto the carb. There were none. I'm pretty particular at checking these types of things, because of the potential fire risks.
That's why I'm thinking it might have been the fuel vent lines from the tank itself. About 2 hours before the fire, we filled the tank full of gas. It was a pretty hot day that Saturday (about 100 degrees), so if I was to guess, I think that some of the fuel passed into the vent pipes (I did not inspect the vent pipes, because I didn't even realize there were vent pipes on a Bay Window Bus), then somehow leaked onto the hot heat exchangers and headers and started the fire. _________________ My 1974 Standard Build Thread:
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=568220&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=0
My Son's 1971 Bay Window Westie Build Thread:
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?p=7295189#7295189 |
|
Back to top |
|
|
RixiesRide Samba Member
Joined: August 31, 2005 Posts: 708 Location: Stockton, CA
|
Posted: Wed Jul 23, 2014 9:56 am Post subject: |
|
|
This is so disturbing! I've been watching this bus on CL for a couple of months, even sent the link to the kid in Socal who was looking for a pre 75 bus.
My thoughts were I should just get rid of my two fixer-uppers and buy this nice pretty bus and drive away with no worries. A bus that clean doesn't need any work, right?
Just glad no one was hurt and it's awesome you have such a great group to help. _________________ 1973 Wild Westerner "Mr. Peabody"
1967 Beetle "Sherman"
http://s13.photobucket.com/albums/a269/RixiesRide/WW/ |
|
Back to top |
|
|
matt94gt Samba Member
Joined: April 29, 2014 Posts: 245 Location: Victoria BC, Canada
|
|
Back to top |
|
|
peteandvanessa Samba Member
Joined: July 01, 2009 Posts: 931 Location: Sacramento
|
Posted: Wed Jul 23, 2014 11:13 am Post subject: |
|
|
RixiesRide wrote: |
This is so disturbing! I've been watching this bus on CL for a couple of months, even sent the link to the kid in Socal who was looking for a pre 75 bus.
My thoughts were I should just get rid of my two fixer-uppers and buy this nice pretty bus and drive away with no worries. A bus that clean doesn't need any work, right?
Just glad no one was hurt and it's awesome you have such a great group to help. |
Yeah it was a pretty clean Bus, that's why my Son bought it, it's a bit smokey and dirty now
Please, please check the vent lines, just as a pre-caution, especially if you live in a hot area.
The other thing that caused more damage from the fire was that the ledge above the engine bay area was pop riveted in. I don't know whether that's usual from the factory or whether the ledge is usually welded in. Because it was pop riveted in, the heat from the fire softened the rivets and the ledge fell down, which allowed the flames and heat to get inside the passenger area which set the seat foam on fire causing more fire damage to the Bus.
If the ledge above the engine area was welded, in the fire would have been contained in the engine bay and we would have just been looking at a motor replacement, engine deck lid replacement, wiring and minor paint refresh.
As stated above, the Bus metal work is largely intact. All running gear, wheels, brakes etc are operational. So at least we can be thankful for that. We will find out more on Sunday when we begin the teardown, but we plan to rip out everything from the inside, pull the motor, all wiring, deck lid, dash etc and then clean it up best we can.
Then we start the re-build process. My Son plans to do most of the work himself, with help and guidance from Bob and Kim. We plan to do the basics, single interior drivers seat, new dash, windows, refresh the motor, new wiring etc and then treat it as a rolling restoration.
The Bus was to go on Treffen 16 from Canada to Mexico in a couple of weeks. So we had to do a switcheroo and now he will be driving his 58 Bug on the trip. The 58 Bug now has the biggest Fire extinguisher we could buy.
just in case.
Will post pics of the Sunday teardown (if the insurance company inspects the Bus before Sunday). _________________ My 1974 Standard Build Thread:
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=568220&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=0
My Son's 1971 Bay Window Westie Build Thread:
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?p=7295189#7295189 |
|
Back to top |
|
|
justcruzin Samba Member
Joined: July 31, 2005 Posts: 1493 Location: United States
|
|
Back to top |
|
|
peteandvanessa Samba Member
Joined: July 01, 2009 Posts: 931 Location: Sacramento
|
|
Back to top |
|
|
Mike C Samba Member
Joined: September 18, 2008 Posts: 303 Location: Albuquerque
|
Posted: Wed Jul 23, 2014 3:08 pm Post subject: |
|
|
How would you check the vent line? Pull tank? _________________ Bone stock 1970 non-walkthrough "Station Wagon" bus
[quote="1977_L63H_P27"]As mentioned before, it's a 9-passenger Deluxe. The true "station wagon" of buses. |
|
Back to top |
|
|
peteandvanessa Samba Member
Joined: July 01, 2009 Posts: 931 Location: Sacramento
|
Posted: Wed Jul 23, 2014 4:07 pm Post subject: |
|
|
I got a private message from another Bus owner, who let me know the following (which is really useful info and I hope they don't mind me sharing the following)
"You are thinking that '71 tank vents are the same as later years. They are not.There is only 1 tank vent and its pretty much centered on the top of the tank and near the rear side. A short piece of hose connects it to a bent tube that then, with another short piece of hose, connects to the steel vent line in the body. That connection is in the upper right rear corner of the tank compartment and the tube then enters into the engine compartment in the very front top right side corner."
So from that evidence it would seem the most likely cause then was actually the carb Inlet barb pulling free. I can't confirm that either way since the carb was melted completely in the fire.
I guess there is a slim change that the tank might have sprung a leak (but not likely), I'll check that when we start to strip the Bus down and report back here when we get closer to that task.
The other alternative is that there was a small leak at the bottom of the filler hose (see pic below), which might have started the fire. Again, I'll inspect this when we get to that area.
In the meantime, here's a few pics of what a 71 Tank looks like from the gallery which also shows the rubber filler neck and the vent line. When we pull the tank I'll inspect the vent line and filler neck too. I'd presume the only way to inspect those areas, is to pull the engine and drown the rear fire wall down to view the tank area.
The reason why I'm laboring the point, is because I want to do my best to try and stop this happening to anyone else. Most of us know about the carb inlet and relocating the fuel filters out of the engine bay, but if I can at least point out to check the tank area (if you can get to it) and it saves one Bus, I'll be a very happy man
_________________ My 1974 Standard Build Thread:
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=568220&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=0
My Son's 1971 Bay Window Westie Build Thread:
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?p=7295189#7295189 |
|
Back to top |
|
|
matt94gt Samba Member
Joined: April 29, 2014 Posts: 245 Location: Victoria BC, Canada
|
|
Back to top |
|
|
|