Yet More Brake Problems!!!!!!!!!!!!!! AHHHHHHHHHHHHH

74 Superbeetle

Someone help before I beat my bug to death! Evil or Very Mad

Everyone is probably getting sick of me writing in with my brake problems but I still can't get them to work.
Ok here is what I replaced
All rubber lines
Passenger wheel cylinder
Master Cylinder
Front and back shoes.

I adjusted the shoes in tight against the drums and now the drums can't turn.
I push on the brake pedal and it just about hits the floor (light brake feeling about a inch before the floor)
I pump the brake pedal a few times and then hold it tight.
Someone else then opens the bleeder (has a hose hooked to it going to a jar)
We bleed it for a while, go through about 4 reserve tanks (never letting it get below half) and then when there is no more air we move to the next wheel.
We are starting with the closest to the master cylinder (I was told to start there) and I have done each wheel probably 10 times and yet there is not difference in the brakes.
If I pump the brakes a few times it gets a little better.
The bug is parked on clean cement and there isn't a drop of fluid anywhere. I pressurized the reserve tank for several days and it did not leak a drip. But I am wondering if I am sucking in air from somewhere?

This isn't the first time I have done brakes, I did my '81 Chevy 1 ton pickup and I didn't have much trouble at all.
But for some reason I can't get this bug.
I have been bleeding these brakes for about 3 hours a day for the past week.

Any ideas would be much appreciated.
Thanks

Zundfolge1432 · Samba Member Joined: June 13, 2004 Posts: 12468

Ck the hard line running from the master cylinder through the car to the three way fitting in the back. This line develops pinhole leaks because of being in a wet damp environment. Sometimes overlooked because the fluid goes into the tar board or carpet and goes unnoticed . Another thing to ck is free play at the master cylinder rod. Bentley manual says never alter this setting but you and I know after all these years the cars have been dicked over sometimes pedal clusters replaced,stops moved because of pans replaced etc,etc.

dasdachshund

djghia · Posted: Thu Jul 24, 2014 6:54 pm Post subject:

Bleed from the farthest first and work your way closer.( RR, LR, RF and then LF) See if that helps, something I learned probably 40 years ago! Also remember; pressure(pumped up), then loosen bleeder, down(peddle of course), tight(bleeder). Repeat until no air comes out. I can still hear a couple of guys I worked with repeating this mantra in my head! Good luck! Dave J
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1962 Ghia vert
1971 Beetle
GROOVE member

Government · Posted: Thu Jul 24, 2014 7:07 pm Post subject: try this

You are not adjusting it still... Just because the drums have stopped turning does not mean you have both sides adjusted all the way out. If you were, you would not have to pump pump pump hold anymore, you would barely have 3 in. Of travel if are adjusted to the max.

Not saying that you didn't adjust, just saying you can go more if you are still going all the way to floor, if... The circuit is closed that is. I was where you are now last week, bled dozens of Mer'ican brakes before. These are not Yankee brakes... Follow the instruction given by wise folks here. I would have already wracked my brain if not for this site. Adjust till you can no longer adjust on both stars per wheel. The pedal WILL feel solid and not go to floor when there.

Also make sure you have taken slack from brake actuator rod on pedal, new MC nave have majorly different rod depth before engaging.

Good luck. Step away and take some brakes to ponder situation if you get frustrated.

scrivyscriv · Posted: Fri Jul 25, 2014 3:57 am Post subject:

There are literally hundreds of good threads on here about brake bleeding.

1) Adjust your drums ALL THE WAY TIGHT. This is the only way brake bleeding on a VW should start, IMO.
2) Pressure bleed your brakes.
3) Adjust your drums to spec.
4) Done.

It takes less than $20 in parts to build a pressure bleeder out of a garden sprayer from Walmart, a scavenged reservoir cap, and some rubber hose. You will be done with your brakes in thirty minutes.
_________________
Robert in Memphis
Dünkelgrügen 1967 Java Green bug thread
Engine rebuild thread
If you're ever in the Memphis area, you are welcome to stop by for advice and help.

Joey · Posted: Fri Jul 25, 2014 4:50 am Post subject:

74 Superbeetle · Posted: Fri Jul 25, 2014 5:02 am Post subject:

Ok, thanks for all of the tips.
I guess I'll give it another go.
Thanks again

Jeff_Birt · Posted: Fri Jul 25, 2014 6:22 am Post subject:

DeathTrap · Posted: Fri Jul 25, 2014 6:31 am Post subject: Re: try this

gargamel · Posted: Fri Jul 25, 2014 9:29 am Post subject:

Sorry to hear you are having ongoing brake issues. Try the suggestions above and check the brake push rod for proper length.

What worked for me was the good ole gravity pull method. I also used some clear fish tank line on the bleeder down to a glass jar. Made viewing bubbles easy, as I bled. I had the wife help pump the brake pedal, in the meantime. It is very low tech but it worked for me. If any of those parts are not on tight, then it is all in vain.

Tim Donahoe · Posted: Fri Jul 25, 2014 9:59 am Post subject:

See if your distance of the Master cylinder brake rod at the pedal is correct. You should--when pushing on the brake pedal by hand--have only 1/4 inch of freeplay before you feel resistance. This 1/4 inch freeplay equals 1 mm at the opposing, inner, tip of the adjustment rod.

If not 1/4 inch at the pedal, loosen the rod's lock nut and turn the rod all the way in until it just stops. Now back off one half turn. Your pedal should now show the 1/4 inch freeplay. If not turn the rod in or out to get it (just tiny increments). Tighten the lock nut when done.

Tim

fred69vert · Posted: Fri Jul 25, 2014 10:02 am Post subject:

I bought one of these:

http://www.harborfreight.com/brake-fluid-bleeder-92924.html

Sucks the fluid (and air) through the system. Works great.
_________________
I'm not losing my hair, it's just retired and relocating further south.

1969 VW convertible, "Heidi"

Hyperspace · Posted: Fri Jul 25, 2014 11:37 am Post subject:

make sure to turn both adjusters out about the same number of turns, readjust the wheel after bleeding it, and before moving to the next wheel.
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If you can't fix it with a hammer, it is an electrical fault.

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DeathTrap · Posted: Sat Jul 26, 2014 12:49 am Post subject:

STOP ALL BLEEDING

concentrate on the actual adjustment of all 8 shoes

adjust them

adjust them

try the pedal and adjust them all again

do like everybody else and install disc brakes on front

then you have 2 wheels in adjustment by the fact of disc brakes

remember the parking brake

that works when the rear brakes are in adjustment

74 Superbeetle · Posted: Sat Jul 26, 2014 5:08 am Post subject:

Thanks all for your time,
I just checked the brake push rod and it seems to be adjusted correctly, I will readjust the shoes tight and I will see where that gets me.
Thanks again for the info

vernonc · Posted: Sat Jul 26, 2014 6:11 am Post subject:

Stupid question.......when you 'pump up and hold' and someone else opens a bleed screw, do they then close the bleed screw after the peddle goes to the floor, while you 're-pump'? Just wondering.

mort
_________________
"Those who don't read newspapers are un-informed. Those who do read newspapers are mis-informed." Will Rogers

'69 sedan, low mileage, all original.....currently being 'freshened-up' for road trips and daily driving...just not every day

Freshening-up link http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=617386

gargamel · Posted: Sat Jul 26, 2014 6:55 am Post subject:

vernonc · Posted: Sat Jul 26, 2014 7:06 am Post subject:

DeathTrap · Posted: Sat Jul 26, 2014 7:19 am Post subject:

Untill they (the SHOES) are adjusted

you will not get any pedal resistance


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