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Vanagon overheating. Where is the best place to check first?
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Terry Kay
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PostPosted: Sat Jul 26, 2014 7:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Here's another simple example ;

Your in BFE, have another 200 miles to go, and your losing coolant at the water pump seal.

What would you do?
Park it, put out an SOS, sit there & wait for a truck, tools,& a pump?

Incorrect attack angle .

I'd loosen the cap, and continue down the road to a better place to care of the problem.
Been there, seen it, done it.
No overheating issues --ever.


To the OP.
It's your thermostat or radiator giving you the headaches.
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atomatom
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PostPosted: Sat Jul 26, 2014 10:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

my most traumatic breakdown - mudslide, traffic back up, lightning, thunder... *bang* overheated and blew the coolant sensor to bits. gathered all water in the van, poured it in, found a nicer place to camp than by the bulldozers scraping the mudslide. no pressure.

anyway, OP - bleed your radiator. that is easy. if you have to do it often because there is air, you have either a leak (that lets air in) or a head gasket (combustion) issue.
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Terry Kay
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PostPosted: Sat Jul 26, 2014 10:48 pm    Post subject: Re: Vanagon overheating. Where is the best place to check fi Reply with quote

<<My Vanagon overheating gauge is increasing each time I drive past 20 min. So I figured it's obviously a overheating issue. >>

OK--let me ask this on top of your question;
What year is the van, and do you have all of it's service records since it was new to verify that the cooling system was maintained in a prudent manner?
Was the coolant changed and the system was flushed at least every two years?

If you don't have it's record's, can't answer the question, and maybe the coolant in the expansion tank looks like red mud--It's back to the radiator.
Get an IR gun and hit it in multiple places all over the face of the radiator to verify.
If the temp climbs to the top end of the gauge it's either that or the thermostat.

Do this the next time your out in the Van--
Turn on both the rear & the front heaters--full blast.
If it stays cooler longer on this drive--it's the radiator for sure--not even guessing on this one.
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botoson
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PostPosted: Mon Jul 28, 2014 2:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hey Guys or Gals,

My Vanagon had lived in Hawaii for over 20 years and most problems here are rust. So most of the cooling system has to do with areas that are rusted and need fixing.
With these do's and don'ts all are good advice.

Other than that I just found out that the fan that normally runs after I turn off the engine does not run anymore. Normally the fan runs a minute or two after I turn off the engine and now nothing.
Could this be a fan issue or some kind of chip that needs replacement?

Thanks
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1vw4x4
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PostPosted: Mon Jul 28, 2014 2:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

NO.... it could be the system is not as hot as it use to be.

Did you check for pressure??





botoson wrote:
Hey Guys or Gals,

My Vanagon had lived in Hawaii for over 20 years and most problems here are rust. So most of the cooling system has to do with areas that are rusted and need fixing.
With these do's and don'ts all are good advice.

Other than that I just found out that the fan that normally runs after I turn off the engine does not run anymore. Normally the fan runs a minute or two after I turn off the engine and now nothing.
Could this be a fan issue or some kind of chip that needs replacement?

Thanks
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Terry Kay
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PostPosted: Mon Jul 28, 2014 2:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Check it out Schmelding.

I mentioned 15 posts ago that the radiator was screwed up.

Remove the Ray Charles Ray Bans and do some reading.
Braille ain't available here.

For Mr. Komon I Wanna Lei Ya.
Do as I suggested.
Turn on both heaters as your driving the van.
See if it runs hot.
This is like adding two mini radiators.
If it doesn't, you've found the problem.
Simple diagnosis tool, which has been a quick bonified method of narrowing a bad radiator issue down for many years--
It simple, it works.
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Dampcamper
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PostPosted: Mon Jul 28, 2014 4:44 pm    Post subject: Oh, my gawd, now there's two of them! Reply with quote

Cutting to the chase: Terry K is right. I carry a "zero pressure" cap in a truck I drive. I bought it when it had a leak, it just connects the radiator to the overflow reservoir but doesn't build pressure. Gets you home with minimal stops to refill. Otherwise as soon as you build pressure it sprays out in a hurry. You get about the same effect if the regular cap is only half-way screwed on but this way water can flow in from the (higher than cooling system, it's a Ford) reservoir.
Pressurization raises the boiling point of the coolant - just like Granny's pressure cooker, it got the canned t'maters hot enough to kill the botulism - in our case it means if you have a localized hot spot in the engine it won't boil there quite so soon, thus preventing damage to the engine. It also lets the engine operate hotter, some efficiency improvements this way, but under 7PSI pressure you now have a bigger safety margin before you get close to the boilover point.
You do have to be careful if you run at atmospheric pressure, your system will boil over at a lower temperature than usual. So take it easy when driving this way.
That's all the pressurization is for, to raise the boiling point of your coolant. It is not essential to the operation of the engine under duress.

What the OP's problem is, I don't know. There are lots of good suggestions here to try so I won't offer any more.
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1vw4x4
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PostPosted: Mon Jul 28, 2014 5:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

If as you state "You do have to be careful if you run at atmospheric pressure, your system will boil over at a lower temperature than usual." You run a major risk of hot spots (boiling) specially at the head gaskets. This basically is how head gaskets get cooked. This is exactly why pressure is so important. By the time you find out its boiling, its WAY TO LATE.. You have done damage. Only question now is, are you to dam stupid to realize it? I bet I get someone to argue that point also.... How about it Terry?



Dampcamper wrote:
Cutting to the chase: Terry K is right. I carry a "zero pressure" cap in a truck I drive. I bought it when it had a leak, it just connects the radiator to the overflow reservoir but doesn't build pressure. Gets you home with minimal stops to refill. Otherwise as soon as you build pressure it sprays out in a hurry. You get about the same effect if the regular cap is only half-way screwed on but this way water can flow in from the (higher than cooling system, it's a Ford) reservoir.
Pressurization raises the boiling point of the coolant - just like Granny's pressure cooker, it got the canned t'maters hot enough to kill the botulism - in our case it means if you have a localized hot spot in the engine it won't boil there quite so soon, thus preventing damage to the engine. It also lets the engine operate hotter, some efficiency improvements this way, but under 7PSI pressure you now have a bigger safety margin before you get close to the boilover point.
You do have to be careful if you run at atmospheric pressure, your system will boil over at a lower temperature than usual. So take it easy when driving this way.
That's all the pressurization is for, to raise the boiling point of your coolant. It is not essential to the operation of the engine under duress.

What the OP's problem is, I don't know. There are lots of good suggestions here to try so I won't offer any more.
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Dampcamper
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PostPosted: Mon Jul 28, 2014 6:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

1vw4x4 wrote:
If as you state "You do have to be careful if you run at atmospheric pressure, your system will boil over at a lower temperature than usual." You run a major risk of hot spots (boiling) specially at the head gaskets. This basically is how head gaskets get cooked. This is exactly why pressure is so important. By the time you find out its boiling, its WAY TO LATE.. You have done damage. Only question now is, are you to dam stupid to realize it? I bet I get someone to argue that point also.... How about it Terry?


Take it easy, brother.

Some of us have gone to Charm School (three times before it took, here...) and some of us took physics and some of us have a lot of time and experience getting greasy and some of us might have missed one or more of the above. TheSamba is a great place to exchange information, opinions and such, but let's do it without the name-calling, OK? Civil discourse.

I do not advocate running without pressure as a matter of course. It can be done in an emergency or to assist in troubleshooting. If you operate this way you have to know what the risks are and how to manage them, just like a lot of other "roadside workarounds". If in doubt, call a tow truck. The truck I drive has a big honkin' diesel in it and I'm not going to risk ruining it just to make a few miles, it is way too expensive to repair. But I got it across a mountain range and back home by being very careful and keeping the reservoir topped up. Then I was able to get it to the regular service facility for a real fix.
This isn't refrigeration where you have to maintain a liquid/vapor/temperature/pressure system, it's just hot water. All you have to do is avoid the water changing states: antifreeze to keep it from going solid, thermal management to keep it from going to vapor state.
Normally this includes pressurization. If this is not possible then vaporization can be prevented by reducing the heat input (e.g. "taking it easy") or improving the heat radiated (heater running full blast, driving in the cool of the night instead of Death Valley heat). BTDT. Again, if in doubt, call a tow truck.
You ever been to any third-world countries? You would be AMAZED at what you can do to keep a car running.
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morymob
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 30, 2014 4:26 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

The rants r getting a bit much around here, u 2 take cold shower & tone it down, some of us r avoiding the posts as much as possible.As 4 u 1vw4x4, I have run non press 4 20+yrs in order to get rid of the split, popped off, weepy etc leaks, gone away. 5 wbxs all done the same, if cooling sys up to par NOproblems in hot weather either. Before u call people stupid, remember the simple fact, if it works DONT GO KNOCKING IT if u havent actually tried it.Terry, I have used a lot of your info in the past, keep it up, my 3cts now 4 my morn coffee.
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crazyvwvanman
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 30, 2014 5:18 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Plenty of vans are running around with bad pressure caps that don't hold any pressure in the system and the owners don't even know it. Its not a problem until it becomes one. Then one day conditions are right and the system suddenly boils over. It may never happen. It may happen once in a great while. It may happen every day. Depends on various factors. There is a good reason vehicles have pressure caps on their cooling systems just like there is are good reasons why they use a coolant/water mix instead of straight water.

Mark
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 30, 2014 5:30 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

morymob wrote:
... I have run non press 4 20+yrs in order to get rid of the split, popped off, weepy etc leaks, gone away. 5 wbxs all done the same, if cooling sys up to par NO problems in hot weather either...


Maybe it's one of those things that works in practice, but not in theory.
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Terry Kay
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 30, 2014 5:57 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I have found out that if you have too much coolant in the expansion tank, every once in awhile it will spit up a little coolant like a baby after eating--nothing major, nothing to worry about, a low ,and a looseend up , no pressure cap will get you where you have to go.

Now--and this is real interesting;
Let's talk about boats.
Inboards, inboard / outboards.
They suck in fresh cool water all day long, and spit it out the back of transom, or out through the lower unit.
Yep, they sure do have a thermostat--but have a totally open to the atmosphere system--NADA pressure.
It can be a Gray Marine, Merc Cruiser, OMC, Chevy, Ford, Mopar, Detroit Diesel, Cat, MTU,Perkins diesel whatever.
They don't have any overheating issues as long as the fresh water intake is open, the water pump is operational, and the thermostat is working.
How can this be?
This just blew the pressurized theory of cooling system operation out the window--
Go figure--and it also works well in any automotive pressurized system in trouble quite well.
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 30, 2014 6:49 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Apples and oranges. You are talking about other cooling system that have an infinite supply of COLD water to cool the engine, not ones that rely on a radiator to slightly reduce the temps before recirculating still very HOT coolant back to the engine. When a recirculating system boils it forces coolant out of the system and that coolant is lost, replaced by air, reducing the capacity of the system until someone refills it. The infinite supply system can just push out the air and never run low on coolant.

Mark


Terry Kay wrote:
.....
Let's talk about boats.
Inboards, inboard / outboards.
They suck in fresh cool water all day long, and spit it out the back of transom, or out through the lower unit.
Yep, they sure do have a thermostat--but have a totally open to the atmosphere system--NADA pressure.
It can be a Gray Marine, Merc Cruiser, OMC, Chevy, Ford, Mopar, Detroit Diesel, Cat, MTU,Perkins diesel whatever.
They don't have any overheating issues as long as the fresh water intake is open, the water pump is operational, and the thermostat is working.
How can this be?
This just blew the pressurized theory of cooling system operation out the window--
Go figure--and it also works well in any automotive pressurized system in trouble quite well.
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Terry Kay
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 30, 2014 7:10 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Nope.
The marine engine run at 190, 220 degree's , plenty hot to boil.
And while they do have a never ending supply of cool water--what is the radiator for in any street driven vehicle?
To keep it hot?
How bout an enclosed cooling system in a yacht to keep the cooling components from the salt water?
No radiator, no pressure--
Now we going into Kumquats & Mango's???

Wrong answer Johnny--

Any pressurized system can be run with no pressure with no balls, no strikes, no outs, if the operator plays his cards right--a little know how.

FYI-- BTW, DBA, & AMF--
How did the other folks that mentioned they have done the same exact escape tactic manage to get to where they were going without a hitch-no problems?
You talking about mircales now?

PTL--Baby Jesus--it must have been-- Rolling Eyes

Amen--
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 30, 2014 9:23 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I have run with a lose cap many times when I needed to. No big deal. The system is compromised when doing that and more likely to boil. The hot coolant leaving the engine goes to the radiator so any bubbles from boiling go that way too. Enough of that and the radiator isn't working at full capacity. Enough of that and the engine runs hotter and even more bubbles are made. So sure, do it when you need to and be ready if you exceed the diminished capacity.

Mark
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botoson
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 30, 2014 5:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I have another question.
I just check my radiator and the darn thing is freaking old. One nibble to the vent and it's like ashes. Just by blowing on it it starts to flake out.
Is this normal?
I figure I might as well buy a new one.
I search ebay and found a couple that ships to Hawaii.
Here's the ebay item:
http://www.ebay.com/itm/VW-Transporter-Vanagon-Rad...6016.l4276

Need your opinion on this. Will this fit my Vanagon or is there a specific part number for it?
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 30, 2014 5:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yes, that is exactly the right one.

Mark
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botoson
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 30, 2014 5:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Great! Is it easy to uninstall it and replace with the new one?
Do I have to turn off something before doing so?
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 30, 2014 6:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

botoson wrote:
Great! Is it easy to uninstall it and replace with the new one?
Do I have to turn off something before doing so?


There is a current thread you should follow:

http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=602580

I always disconnect the battery (ground post) before major work and, of course, you'll be draining coolant.
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