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VOLKSWAGNUT
Fastest VW Belt Changer
Joined: October 14, 2007
Posts: 11055
Location: Flippin' a Belt........ .... Off-n-On ... NC USA
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 Posted: Wed Aug 13, 2014 5:31 am Post subject: |
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Not sure if that tow bar not fiting is any indication of anything..
Tow bars have a rough life.. and not all fit well..
Maybe take a few beam width measurements..
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_________________
aka Ken {o\!/o}
Its your vehicle- stop askin' for approval-do what YOU like for cryin' out loud
Better to roll em' how you want and wear em' out-than lettin' em' rot out
Its about the going not the showing
Rebuilt to drive not decorate
WANTED: Local Eatin' Joints, Triple D for TheSamba contributions here http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=570510
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joescoolcustoms
Samba Member
Joined: August 08, 2006
Posts: 9054
Location: West By God Virginia
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| Posted: Wed Aug 13, 2014 6:55 am Post subject: |
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Look at the top two trailing arms, they look to have the factory grease seals. The two bottom trailing arms look like they do not. It looks like the bottom two trailing arms are further inward than should be.
If the beam is a narrowed unit, maybe the bottom leaf spring packs were cut wrong and the grub screw dimples drilled too close together.
Would explain why the bottom arm are not allowing the camber to be correct.
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Looks like it was painted with a live chicken,polished with a brick and buffed with a pine cone |
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Jerry39218
Samba Member
Joined: June 23, 2014
Posts: 182
Location: Brandon, MS
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| Posted: Wed Aug 13, 2014 7:18 am Post subject: |
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29.5" across. Tow bar is setup for a 30.5. Had to modify it slightly.
It appears my front end has been narrowed. Why I have absolutely no idea. Didn't need to be as far as I can tell |
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Jerry39218
Samba Member
Joined: June 23, 2014
Posts: 182
Location: Brandon, MS
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| Posted: Wed Aug 13, 2014 7:21 am Post subject: |
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| andk5591 wrote: |
| Looks like a narrowed beam on the buggy ASSUMING the tow bar is fine. |
Towbar was used numerous time to tow different pre 65 beetles.
It was fine until I cut the cross brace yesterday in order to spread the cradles out enough to get it mounted |
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Jerry39218
Samba Member
Joined: June 23, 2014
Posts: 182
Location: Brandon, MS
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| Posted: Wed Aug 13, 2014 7:23 am Post subject: |
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| Is it possible to decouple that front end and mount a new one? |
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VOLKSWAGNUT
Fastest VW Belt Changer
Joined: October 14, 2007
Posts: 11055
Location: Flippin' a Belt........ .... Off-n-On ... NC USA
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| Posted: Wed Aug 13, 2014 8:44 am Post subject: |
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| Jerry39218 wrote: |
| Is it possible to decouple that front end and mount a new one? |
Decouple???
You can replace the entire beam with another if thats what you are asking.
Where did you measure?
| Joey wrote: |
| Close to 32" from the center of each shock tower. Or 34 1/4" from each end of the torsion tubes. |
| Heinz57 wrote: |
You want to measure from where the beam tube ends and the control arm seal starts to the opposite side. The total tube length on a stock link pin will be about 34 1/4". For example, if you measure it and its 32 1/4" inches outside to outside, that would be a 2" narrowed beam.
Here is what I am talking about where the tube ends and the seal sits.
Danny |
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_________________
aka Ken {o\!/o}
Its your vehicle- stop askin' for approval-do what YOU like for cryin' out loud
Better to roll em' how you want and wear em' out-than lettin' em' rot out
Its about the going not the showing
Rebuilt to drive not decorate
WANTED: Local Eatin' Joints, Triple D for TheSamba contributions here http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=570510
Search "VOLKSWAGNUT" on YouTube since you cant watch a "certain" BELT change video round here
Usually and often edited |
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Jerry39218
Samba Member
Joined: June 23, 2014
Posts: 182
Location: Brandon, MS
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| Posted: Wed Aug 13, 2014 3:51 pm Post subject: |
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33.5
Same result. .5 shorter on both sides. |
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Jerry39218
Samba Member
Joined: June 23, 2014
Posts: 182
Location: Brandon, MS
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| Posted: Wed Aug 13, 2014 3:52 pm Post subject: |
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| How do you replace the beam? It appears to be welded on? |
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VOLKSWAGNUT
Fastest VW Belt Changer
Joined: October 14, 2007
Posts: 11055
Location: Flippin' a Belt........ .... Off-n-On ... NC USA
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| Posted: Wed Aug 13, 2014 5:19 pm Post subject: |
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| Jerry39218 wrote: |
| How do you replace the beam? It appears to be welded on? |
To be blunt..
I think its time to buy a service manual. Even the cheap Haynes Type 1 manual would help.
If its truly welded to the frame head....you are nearing an answer to your problem. Plus its been narrowed.. and has camber issues which means its a botched job.
Link pin beams are critical to measure properly when narrowing...or it ends up with camber issues.. see where this is heading...
The entire front axle beam assembly bolts to the frame head with 4 large bolts. On Beetles
2 additional bolts are attached to the top and help secure the body and add structure to the frame head.
Read this. Its a Ball Joint how to but its the same process.
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=583454
Here is a beam unbolted and viewed from the rear.
As I mentioned early.... You may....be able to swap upper and lower springs...but the way it looks..it may then have negative camber.... A beam replacement is the best answer..
.
_________________
aka Ken {o\!/o}
Its your vehicle- stop askin' for approval-do what YOU like for cryin' out loud
Better to roll em' how you want and wear em' out-than lettin' em' rot out
Its about the going not the showing
Rebuilt to drive not decorate
WANTED: Local Eatin' Joints, Triple D for TheSamba contributions here http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=570510
Search "VOLKSWAGNUT" on YouTube since you cant watch a "certain" BELT change video round here
Usually and often edited |
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Jerry39218
Samba Member
Joined: June 23, 2014
Posts: 182
Location: Brandon, MS
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| Posted: Thu Aug 14, 2014 10:58 am Post subject: |
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I have 2 manuals... but trying to remember things from 30 years ago is difficult...
That's why a fresh perspective comes in handy 
I had already thought this could be the overall problem...just couldn't quite remember how to prove it to myself. Still got some more checking to do when time allows. Still waiting on a clutch arm spring ...Then more drive testing.
Stay tuned haha... |
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tgodber
Samba Member
Joined: May 02, 2004
Posts: 410
Location: Okanagan Falls B.C. Canada
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| Posted: Thu Aug 14, 2014 6:50 pm Post subject: |
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My first buggy had a crash into a tree from previous owner. Turns out more than just fiberglass damage was done. The front was bent where the beam attaches. We ended up with a new pan.
You need to figure out if the front beam was narrowed or bent or modified. Was a botch-up job done.
Take some measurements and then decide if you need to start with a fresh beam. Cannot run these things without spending some money along the way.
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My wife said I never listen to her.
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Jerry39218
Samba Member
Joined: June 23, 2014
Posts: 182
Location: Brandon, MS
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| Posted: Fri Aug 15, 2014 3:27 am Post subject: |
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Hopefully still not as bad as a boat
Break Out Another Thousand |
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Jerry39218
Samba Member
Joined: June 23, 2014
Posts: 182
Location: Brandon, MS
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| Posted: Sat Aug 23, 2014 6:12 pm Post subject: |
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Update:
Link pins are now "loose"--rocking the wheel back and forth at the last show of today I noticed it.
I came across some link pins that didn't have the "spiral" for the screw to go into, they were more straight, but I don't remember who had them.
Also, I am now almost certain a new front beam is needed.
The question I now have, should I stay with the link pin setup, or go to the ball joint setup? |
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andk5591
Samba Member
Joined: August 29, 2005
Posts: 16757
Location: State College, PA
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| Posted: Sat Aug 23, 2014 6:46 pm Post subject: |
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They dont interchange without modifying the frame head....I dont know how involved it is since I never did it, but it doesnt seem easy to do.
If you are getting a beam - now is the time to think about tires and wheels. If doing wider than stock and/or dropping the front, you may want to consider a narrowed beam......
_________________
D-Dubya Manx clone - 63 Short pan,1914.
Rosie 65 bug - My mostly stock daily driver.
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There's more, but not keeping them... |
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VOLKSWAGNUT
Fastest VW Belt Changer
Joined: October 14, 2007
Posts: 11055
Location: Flippin' a Belt........ .... Off-n-On ... NC USA
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| Posted: Sat Aug 23, 2014 6:58 pm Post subject: |
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Easier to just start fresh with a good stock Link Pin Beam...
| andk5591 wrote: |
| They dont interchange without modifying the frame head....... |
yep^.... or
| VOLKSWAGNUT wrote: |
Or separate the tubes, and use the corresponding beam brackets and extend the shock towers in the middle. so...
Yes it can be done.... but its not a simple bolt and go....
Other choices... the buggy/kustom guys use the conversion brackets, but it adds wheelbase so not optimal on a full body car. |
The beam separation is different between link and ball beams...
Frankly a proper set up link pin beam is a tough as nails set up.. but has no adjustment..
A ball joint set up is simpler, rides better.. and can be aligned much better...
Each has a benefit... IMO...for a road car ball joints are the best due to the adjust-ability .... off road... hard to beak a link pin beam..
If you have the room for a little added length... contact Lawrence_0485..
He can make the opposite of this one...
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/classifieds/detail.php?id=1064757
Of course steering linkage would have to be modified then..
You know the old saying..
| VOLKSWAGNUT wrote: |
I'll say it again..... 
| VOLKSWAGNUT wrote: |
| You know the saying ..... change 1 thing it effects 10... |
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_________________
aka Ken {o\!/o}
Its your vehicle- stop askin' for approval-do what YOU like for cryin' out loud
Better to roll em' how you want and wear em' out-than lettin' em' rot out
Its about the going not the showing
Rebuilt to drive not decorate
WANTED: Local Eatin' Joints, Triple D for TheSamba contributions here http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=570510
Search "VOLKSWAGNUT" on YouTube since you cant watch a "certain" BELT change video round here
Usually and often edited
Last edited by VOLKSWAGNUT on Sat Aug 23, 2014 7:27 pm; edited 6 times in total |
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Lawrence_0485
Samba Member
Joined: March 25, 2007
Posts: 465
Location: Arkansas
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| Posted: Sat Aug 23, 2014 7:20 pm Post subject: |
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Oh ya I can make those adapters..made a few sets in the past. Ignore those crappy pics in that ad. Check out my quality on facebook....gotta get my pics here updated.
Www.facebook.com/fabshop104
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Jerry39218
Samba Member
Joined: June 23, 2014
Posts: 182
Location: Brandon, MS
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| Posted: Sun Aug 24, 2014 5:25 am Post subject: |
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this is what I need, only this is the ONLY one I can find from the usual sources.
http://chircoestore.com/axle-beam-assembly-link-pin-bug-46-65.html
Spindle to spindle complete link pin pre 65.
Should bolt right up.
My next question, WHY are front beams narrowed? Mine has wheel lug adapters on it, but you can get the drums already drilled for that pattern so I cannot fathom why this one would have been narrowed..and then only an inch?
I suppose so the driver and passenger don't get wet or muddy due to the wheels being slightly out from the fender? Where's the fun in that?  |
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VOLKSWAGNUT
Fastest VW Belt Changer
Joined: October 14, 2007
Posts: 11055
Location: Flippin' a Belt........ .... Off-n-On ... NC USA
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| Posted: Sun Aug 24, 2014 7:06 am Post subject: |
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| Jerry39218 wrote: |
My next question, WHY are front beams narrowed? Mine has wheel lug adapters on it, but you can get the drums already drilled for that pattern so I cannot fathom why this one would have been narrowed..and then only an inch?
I suppose so the driver and passenger don't get wet or muddy due to the wheels being slightly out from the fender? Where's the fun in that? |
Generally the reason beams are narrowed are to allow wheels to fit fully udner the fenders on a full bodied car... when using a kustom wheel and tire...
On a buggy...its not really required...
Could be the beam was bought or the car built from a wrecked vw.. that the last owner didn't know, didn't care, or didn't want to correct.. (or all)
Maybe it was dissembled to soften the springs for a buggy... and botched up..
Speaking of that... with buying a new beam.......front torsions are WAY too stiff for a light weight road buggy.
Plan ahead.. buy one with the lowering adjusters in the center.
You can then tune the springs and ride some..
Buying used and creating is the best way for a buggy... but Im not sure if you have the tools and patience that it takes...
.
_________________
aka Ken {o\!/o}
Its your vehicle- stop askin' for approval-do what YOU like for cryin' out loud
Better to roll em' how you want and wear em' out-than lettin' em' rot out
Its about the going not the showing
Rebuilt to drive not decorate
WANTED: Local Eatin' Joints, Triple D for TheSamba contributions here http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=570510
Search "VOLKSWAGNUT" on YouTube since you cant watch a "certain" BELT change video round here
Usually and often edited |
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Jerry39218
Samba Member
Joined: June 23, 2014
Posts: 182
Location: Brandon, MS
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| Posted: Sun Aug 24, 2014 9:47 am Post subject: |
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That was my next question, thanks for the info.
Haven't found one spindle to spindle yet tho...
there is a guy on ebay that sells buggy units, I may contact him for some info also. |
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BL3Manx
Samba Member
Joined: August 29, 2006
Posts: 6767
Location: Northern California
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| Posted: Sun Aug 24, 2014 12:14 pm Post subject: |
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| VOLKSWAGNUT wrote: |
Speaking of that... with buying a new beam.......front torsions are WAY too stiff for a light weight road buggy.
Plan ahead.. buy one with the lowering adjusters in the center.
You can then tune the springs and ride some.. |
Changing the adjustment on an adjustable front beam will only change the ride height. It will have no effect on the spring rate/ ride stiffness.
The only way to do that is to remove some leaves or remove one complete stack of leaves and replace it with a through bolt. |
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