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ALLWAGONS
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PostPosted: Sat Aug 16, 2014 12:58 pm    Post subject: Dissappointed with New VW's Reply with quote

My wife and I are looking for a second car, so our first choice was a VW. I test drove a few cars and they all blew. Because of one of my jobs, it is more convenient to rent cars than to drive my own. When it comes to rentals ( and I know they don't rent the top of the line cars) I usually drive a Ford Taurus, it has power, rides super smooth but it's a bit of a gas guzzler. My second choice are Hyundai Sonatas and Kia Optimas as they are nice and roomy and have about the same power as the Taurus. I am not super concerned about mileage as I currently drive a 1999 Chevy suburban.

So off to my local dealer I go, my first choice was the Jetta Sportswagon TDI and it blew. The Turbo keeps going off at 1700 RPM and the car gets a spurt of power and just takes off. I tested the 2.5l and driving it became so annoying as it shifted 3 times between 0-30mph throughout the whole drive, the shifting was not smooth at all. So lastly I drove the 1.8t and it was way under powered. The dealership did offer a great deal but I was not impressed. Rolling Eyes The colors they offer are way lame.
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LowType2
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PostPosted: Sun Aug 17, 2014 2:54 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Couple of months ago I went and test drove a 14 GTI. They didn't have the color I wanted but right off the bat took off 3k off the price. Car was fun to drive but I'm not looking for $400 a month payment.
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andk5591
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PostPosted: Sun Aug 17, 2014 4:48 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Buy a Subaru - its what VW should have evolved to......
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PostPosted: Sun Aug 17, 2014 5:00 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

First AND last new vw I bought was an '87 Fox wagon. Bought it because it was the only car that the wife could reach the pedals without sliding the seat all the way forward. Though fast enough for a 4 speed, it was totally uncomfortable to drive and it felt exactly as what it was... a weak assed plastic car! Stuff would just fall off it! Got recalled because the steering wheel "could come off!!! Shocked

When the dealer "fixed it", the wheel was crooked. WTF? Went from a 2 year old Foyota pick-up truck to THIS! Had it for less than a 2 years and traded it for a Foyota Previa. The vw dealer "service" was just as big a turn off as the POS car! Evil or Very Mad


Now my newest car is the '70 Bug! Not bad for a 44 year old car that still gets 25mpg! Razz
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ps2375
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PostPosted: Sun Aug 17, 2014 8:49 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

andk5591 wrote:
Buy a Subaru - its what VW should have evolved to......


Only if you want a cvt tranny.

The newest VW I own is a 94 Golf with the 2.0L. Having worked on them for a bit, I would def take an '02 or later mkIV w/ the 20V 1.8T w/ either a manual tranny or the 5spd auto tiptronic. The 2.5L motors never impressed me, nor did the looks. The 2.0T motor does but, it has issues with pvc and fuel pump lobes that I would not want to take a chance with.

My brother has had a couple of CC's w/ the 2.0T motor and 6spd manual trannies, and those are nice and move very well.
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stewardc
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PostPosted: Sun Aug 17, 2014 11:44 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I agree, though I did have a Jetta Sportline 2.5 rental for a few weeks and it went nice (though the shifting was definitely below par). I'll always have a VW diesel toy. But Toyota gets my money for a daily driver/winterbeater. I just sold a trouble-free Corolla S with 680,000km on the dial. The folks who bought it love it too.
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ps2375
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PostPosted: Sun Aug 17, 2014 12:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

It also depends upon who does the maintenance. I drove my Rabbit for 20+yrs and over 500K miles, but, I also did all of the maintenance. Our Golf has over 275K miles on it (we got it with 100K+ miles on it), and I do all of the work on it too. These newer cars require that you have some sort of computer diagnostic capability and the shop manual. Along with some skill and tools. I dunno if I'll ever buy a new car again, if I do, I don't plan on working on it, I'd let the wife drive it and she can figure how to get it fixed.
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oasis
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PostPosted: Mon Aug 18, 2014 8:02 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I guess we're talking about automatics. My dad's '02 Passat with a 1.8T would be schizo with the turbo spooling at certain speeds and accelerations. On the other hand, I've driven a GTI with the 1.8T and a stick, and it was fine.

I didn't think VW still offered the 1.8T. The 2.0T in my Eos couldn't be better. In fact, I would say it's the best gas engine I have had from VW, and I have owned two ABAs and got 16½ years of faithful service from my GLI. (My Eos has a six-speed manual, and I have heard pre-'09 2.0T engines were slightly different and had issues.)

I can't comment on the 2.5 liter five-cylinder. Our EuroVan had one and it was totally troublefree, but I don't think the current 2.5 by VW is the same beyond number of cylinders and displacement.

Maybe the automatics are what is troubling. The only VW automatics I have driven and liked were on a Type 3 and two Touaregs ( '06 V10 TDI and '07 V8 ). I might get a Touareg to replace Eos, but it won't be a new one.
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Last edited by oasis on Tue Aug 19, 2014 9:42 pm; edited 1 time in total
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ps2375
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PostPosted: Mon Aug 18, 2014 12:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The "new" 1.8T is not the same as the "old" 1.8T. Where the old one was a port injected 20V 1.8L turbo, the new one is a Direct Injected 16V 1.8L turbo based upon the 2.0T motor. Not sure if it is destroked or smaller bore or some of both. But it is a replacement for the 2.5 5cylinder, as it proved to be harsh and not very economical as a 4pot turbo.
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oasis
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PostPosted: Mon Aug 18, 2014 9:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks! I went to the VW site out of curiosity about a few things -- the 1.8T being one of them. I appreciate knowing the distinction. Cool
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73sports
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PostPosted: Tue Aug 19, 2014 4:55 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

The new 1.8T is just de-stroked. I know people have strong opinions about cars, and newer vws, but I did have to laugh that an 87 Fox was mentioned as an example of a new vw. That car is 27 years old. It would qualify for antique plates in most states!
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Derek Cobb
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PostPosted: Tue Aug 19, 2014 8:45 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

My son has a 2013 Golf R. Very nice car.
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ps2375
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PostPosted: Tue Aug 19, 2014 4:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Derek Cobb wrote:
My son has a 2013 Golf R. Very nice car.


It had better be for the $35-40K they want for it. If it were given to me, I'd take one, but I would have a very hard time paying that much money for a Golf.
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Derek Cobb
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PostPosted: Wed Aug 20, 2014 3:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

ps2375 wrote:
Derek Cobb wrote:
My son has a 2013 Golf R. Very nice car.


It had better be for the $35-40K they want for it. If it were given to me, I'd take one, but I would have a very hard time paying that much money for a Golf.

Yeah, it's a lot of money for a Golf, but damn that thing is nice to drive.
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wbrown45
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PostPosted: Sun Aug 24, 2014 8:35 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

My wife's 2010 New Beetle has a 2.5L 5 cylinder engine and we both love it. We get mid to high 30's on the highway, and it has plenty of power. I like the positive shifts of the 6 speed, and I love the ability to use the Tiptronic feature to engine brake going down steep hills. (She wanted a manual, but they weren't offering it on the last year of the New Beetle.)
I don't know why there is such contempt for this engine? Maybe the unique exhaust note, or just the odd number of cylinders? We have had no problems at all with her little car. (She named it Bella. Wink ) VW has apparently gotten their act together since they did some major restructuring in about 2006. They did have some major issues in years previous to that.
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raygreenwood
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PostPosted: Sun Aug 24, 2014 10:01 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

A lot of you guys...from the descriptions...need to go out and drive a FEW new VW's.....not just one or two on the lot that happened to be the first one you saw.

New Vw's are actually far better in many respects than they ever were. The issue I am getting at is that VW has at least three main levels of trim in all of their vehicles if not more.....and the trim level is not just the interior...its engine tuning and drive train programming.

I bought a 2012 golf and I go to the dealers at least every few months just to test drive and see how things compare.

By the way....the 1.8T is NOT the only engine offered. If you want the 2.0T..step up another trim level in most lines.
The TDI is awesome...but was not made famous with an automatic. Get a manual and it rocks.

The Jetta sportwagon...is the econocar of the entire line. Everyone knows that and its advertised that way. Its really targeted as a business class vehicle. Lowest level of trim, lowest level of tuning, lowest level of fit and finish.

Buy a suby?...ok nice cars...but my 2.5L golf with five speed spanks anything in the suby lineup that is even remotely comparable in class and price.

Its surprising to many other Golf owners of the same year who look at my car and think its identical...to find out the range of whats in it standard that was not standard in theirs. I got lucky because they just happened to have a five speed on the lot with this trim level.

The dealer is not going to tell you what you CAN have when you are obviously coming too buy off of the lot.....and they need to unload what they have. If you dont arrive knowing you want something better than a program car....and you are already bitching about budget...why would they work to show you what you CAN HAVE.

Mine came with all kinds of little oddities for $22k. 2.5L/170hp five speed, heated seats, heated mirrors, heated washer nozzles, sunroof, 6 disc changer, blue tooth and satellite, premium 10 speaker stereo, sport seats, and programming and wiring built in for a range of other VAG options like auto folding and programmable mirrors, twin mat sets...normal and monster mats...and a whole slew of other little trinkets it took me a while to figure out like air conditioned console and glove box and every conceivable media hook up from the factory from I-pod, to SD card to USB, tire pressure warning system, and a wild hill/ anti-roll device lock for the manual transmission that uses the front anti-lock brakes...and works flawlessly.

Its light on its feet for its fat 3200 lbs and is quick and in 51k miles has not missed a beat. Best 0-60 with the standard is about 7-8 seconds.....but you have to learn how to drive it. The drive by wire takes a bit of getting used to.

I have a buddy in DC just got a 2014 Jetta sportwagon. We drove the 2015 as well.....and the 2014 is a dog comparatively. Its based on the golf 6 platform and is heavier than the golf. The drivetrain is also deprogrammed and not as quick.
We drove a 2014 with a stick.....and its a different planet than either of the automatics either 2014 or 2015. All of them are detuned compared to any of the golfs, Jetta Sedans or the Passat. Its a cargo wagon....and what Americans generally buy wagons for as compared to how Europeans traditionally drive and buy wagons.

The dealer tried hard to sell me a GTI....but Im not going for one without a stick and they dont have many because most Americans are lazy and want the auto.

Also if you are driving any VAG products with the automatic ....short of an Audi....the lowest number of gears out there now is six. Most of the Audis have 8's.
You need to learn how to drive it. Comparing any automatic VAG product to a sable/taurus or something similar....is apples to oranges. Having driven many new Ford product in the past two years...nice cars...but nowhere near as smooth and well put together as VAG products.

The 6-9 speed transmissions are designed to keep you general rpm running ranges at sustaining speeds...down just below 2000 rpm. Even with turbo that is well bellow the snappy torque band....and is why oddly my parents 2012 A-4 gets 35 mpg highway at near constant 90mph.

You want quick and sporty...pop it up a gear with the tiptronic and keep it spinning above 2500-3000 rpm and its a totally different animal. Also....with the drive by wire systems....most have adaptive technology. The cars on the dealer lots drive funny because every hack in the world has been flooring it off the lot. You need light turbo style throttle inputs with the VAG drive by wire systems because otherwise they can actually make you slower. After a biit...you learn the car and it learns you.

Sorry for the length...but I just find it odd that people complain after going to a dealer lot and driving 1-2 cars that are usually program vehicles with an unknown tune or trim level.

Ray
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ps2375
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PostPosted: Mon Aug 25, 2014 7:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The biggest disappointment that I've seen with VW's mkIV and later is electronics/wiring and plastics in the cooling system. And having had to work on them for 6yrs, I saw plenty of that. You would think after the plastic waterpump impeller fiasco, you think they would've learned about plastic in hot places. Thankfully I stopped working on them before I ever had to place the 2.0T's completely plastic water pump housing assembly. Good thing I have no desire to own or drive a newer car, by any manufacturer.
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PostPosted: Tue Aug 26, 2014 9:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I've had a 2012 turbo beetle for almost two years now and put over 27k miles on it with no issues so far. It has plenty of power especially after the APR tune.

The car drives great but the accerlation does suck in normal drive mode. You put it in manual or sport and its a whole different car.

I had a 98 beetle 2.slow back when it was new and my wife had an 02 turbo and we both had nothing but problems with them. I swore I would never get another VW but the company I am with does all of the window tint for the local dealership so we see alot of different models in and out. The new generation is leaps and bounds above the previous model. In every aspect. Don't like the cost of them new and that's why I bought mine with 4500 miles on it. Saved 10k that way.

To the OP, I would look at something with the 2.0T motor in it. Its a really great motor with alot of potential. If its not enough stock, an APR tune/intercooler/boost pipes/downpipe will give you a solid 280hp or so! Then there's always an APR K04 turbo upgrade. Essentially the same turbo that the Audi S3 has but made to fit the VWs. Then you're in the 325-350hp range but drives like a stock car. All easy bolt on mods that can be swapped back to factory if needed.

The simple stage one tune gets you into the 250hp range and only costs $600. Most dealerships are cool with it and will still honor your warranty.

It's all a matter of how fast you want to go and how much money you want to spend. You can read on VWVortex.com and other sites about more info
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PostPosted: Sat Sep 06, 2014 3:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Derek Cobb wrote:
ps2375 wrote:
Derek Cobb wrote:
My son has a 2013 Golf R. Very nice car.


It had better be for the $35-40K they want for it. If it were given to me, I'd take one, but I would have a very hard time paying that much money for a Golf.

Yeah, it's a lot of money for a Golf, but damn that thing is nice to drive.


I truly believe you get what you pay for and you pay for what you get.
Looked at the R. I really liked it. I also test drove a GTI. Not a big difference performance wise. About 35 more horses and AWD The price was around 5k more than the GTI. I went with my then new 2012 GTI Autobahn Edition. I traded my 2000 Jetta GL for it. I had a bit over 300k on the Jetta. I now have 45k on the GTI. The Jetta was a rock solid daily driver. I hoped the GTI would prove to be the same. So far I have been very happy. It's very quick even though it's bone stock. Reliability and build quality has been excellent in my case.
It puts the same smile on my face as the Ghia every time I drive it. Cool
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PostPosted: Mon Sep 08, 2014 5:18 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I've had very good luck with the few VW'S I've owned. The last was an '88 Golf GTI. Absolutely no repairs on this car. I gave it to my sister about 10 years ago with 267,000 miles on it. The last I heard it was still running strong.
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