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My 1954 build thread "Beatrix"
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Robert Chambers
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PostPosted: Sat Sep 13, 2014 4:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Charmaine's54 wrote:
Engine stud still won't come out. Going to leave it until the body is off.

I have seen this problem several times. The different metals start an electrolysis process. The trans case actually builds pressure on and around the engine stud. I have removed the stuck stud by double nutting the stud and or turning it out with vice grips and stud removal tools. You will have more room after the body is off. Good luck! Smile
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PostPosted: Sat Sep 13, 2014 8:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

My dad brought over an acetylene torch tonight. That thing scares me. Hopefully he will have time to help me heat up the remaining 4 pan bolts as I'm scared of wrecking my car and/or blowing something up/burning myself/starting the garage on fire with that torch!!

My brother is welding us a dolly for the body to sit on and that should be ready tomorrow. I could only hope that my dad can come help with the torch, and my brother will drop off the dolly... And that it will be perfectly timed so we have 4 people to lift the body off. Optimistic, aren't I.

Hubby and I spent the remainder of the day labeling the wiring so we can remove it. Learned why the semaphores didn't work; the wiring had been hacked into so the aftermarket turn signals added to the fenders would work, and the semaphores were completely disconnected. A relay had been added and a signal arm from a later car to accommodate the additional signal lights. Extra wires were also found going to the taillights so signal lights worked there, too. Needless to say we will fix all this!
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2016 Golf R - my daily


Last edited by TheLadyBug on Sat Sep 13, 2014 9:20 pm; edited 2 times in total
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TheLadyBug
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PostPosted: Sat Sep 13, 2014 8:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Robert Chambers wrote:
Charmaine's54 wrote:
Engine stud still won't come out. Going to leave it until the body is off.

I have seen this problem several times. The different metals start an electrolysis process. The trans case actually builds pressure on and around the engine stud. I have removed the stuck stud by double nutting the stud and or turning it out with vice grips and stud removal tools. You will have more room after the body is off. Good luck! Smile


Thanks!
I can't wait to get this body off so I can finish cleaning the pan and send it off to be redone. How do you mean you 'double nut' it to get it out? There's so little of the stud sticking out of the transmission case.

Going to hopefully organize our first order from Wolfsburg West as we have decided to add seatbelts. I'd like these for when the pan goes off to be repaired. Seatbelts will be one of the few 'not stock' things we will do to the car. If we didn't have small children, I'd not do it but... I do so it's a must. I'm going to get some other things as well, just haven't decided what I want to hoard Wink I think I'll also get the spring plate bushings for the rear suspension and transmission mounts, and new shocks all around. I'm hoping to get my hands on some drop spindles and king pins etc locally (the other 'not stock' thing we're doing to the car).

Any advice as to things I may need that I don't know I need to rebuild the pan/suspension/axels/torsion bars? Shipping is a bit atrocious so I'd like to get most things that will be needed for building the front/rear end.
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Blue Baron
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PostPosted: Sat Sep 13, 2014 10:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Charmaine's54 wrote:
I'm hoping to get my hands on some drop spindles and king pins etc locally (the other 'not stock' thing we're doing to the car).

I think a VW looks right with the stock suspension, but it could always be reversed.

And even though I'm an evil purist, I see no reason not to add seat belts. I put them in our split.
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henry roberts
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PostPosted: Sun Sep 14, 2014 12:35 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

there are heaps of bits to do on a floorpan, if you're doing it 100%.

the following list is just what comes to mind and is most likely missing lots of stuff.

clutch, accelerator and heater cables.
clutch Bowden tube?
hard and soft brake lines.
hard and soft fuel lines.
gearshift boot and pedal pads.
any clips you are missing off the pedal/handbrake assemblies.
pan head cover gasket.
brake line grommets.
there are probably some cable grommets at the back end of the pan.
king pins/link pins/ tie rod ends.
front beam bushes, trailing arm seals if you stick with the stock style bushes.
lock plates for the beam to panhead (*2), steering box to beam, steering donut (*2)?, steering shaft either 1 or 2 and the front wheel bearings (*2).
split pins for front end, pedal assembly and rear axles.
master cylinder and wheel cylinders.
brake shoes, poss drums and assorted other brake hardware bits.
front wheel bearings and wheel seals.

various types of grease and oil.

not included are steering box rebuild stuff or a replacement box and pedal assembly bushes etc.
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57BLITZ
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PostPosted: Sun Sep 14, 2014 11:50 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Not on Henry's list . . .

Maybe a shift rod coupler. I was unable to remove my transaxle without destroying that coupler.

Also, does your choke cable move freely? It took me about three weeks before I was able to free-up my choke cable. After reading the horror stories here on The Samba . . . http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=333302&highlight=choke+cable . . . I decided to NOT replace the outer sheath and just replace the inner wire.

I referred to this to get an idea of what to buy for my '56 pan . . . http://www.wolfsburgwest.com/wolfsburg_new/chassis/bug_chassis.cfm

A tip on using the torch for heating those broken bolts. I do NOT set my torch to a "neutral flame" . . . I make the inner cone long by adding a little acetylene . . . what I call a "carbonizing flame". It will not be as hot then! Important especially when using it near sheet metal. Heat the bolt ONLY, and NOT the surrounding sheet metal.
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TheLadyBug
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PostPosted: Sun Sep 14, 2014 9:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks so much for the lists!
Trevor went over the brake stuff with me this morning and we made a list to include the brake components.

I had wondered if the choke needed replacing - we likely will. Mine moved freely and was easy to remove this far. I don't think it will give me grief to remove the rest of it based on how freely it moves.

I didn't consider the brake/gearshift boots or pedal pads yet.

I was unsure if the hard fuel lines would need replacement?

I had considered clutch components but will likely get those from a shop closer to home.

Eek.
I think we'll split this order as it's getting pricey!

We ran out of acetylene, but got 3 bolts heated up and removed!!


Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.

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1954 Beetle - because I can
2016 Golf highline - hubby’s daily
2016 Golf R - my daily


Last edited by TheLadyBug on Sun Sep 14, 2014 11:07 pm; edited 2 times in total
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57BLITZ
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PostPosted: Sun Sep 14, 2014 9:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Charmaine's54 wrote:
. . . got 3 bolts heated up and removed!!
Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


My son and I have nicknamed our torch, "the hot-wrench"!

Cool that ya got those bolts out!

And the sheet metal I see it that pic looks pretty good from here . . . lucky you!
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TheLadyBug
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PostPosted: Sun Sep 14, 2014 10:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

57BLITZ wrote:
Charmaine's54 wrote:
. . . got 3 bolts heated up and removed!!


My son and I have nicknamed our torch, "the hot-wrench"!

Cool that ya got those bolts out!

And the sheet metal I see it that pic looks pretty good from here . . . lucky you!


Thanks! My dad helped me with the torch as I was afraid to use it. Embarassed The car is in pretty darn good condition considering it's age and a few secrets we've uncovered since working on her. It appears the roof had been caved in at one point, but repaired. Also, there are dents in the pinch weld on the body on the passenger side, the pan was pushed up by the battery, as well the jack support is mangled - which make it look like the car has been picked up with a forklift. Also little damage around the car from carelessness. It's a shame really. Nature wasn't nearly as hard on this car as humans have been.


Today we got lots done. All components out of the dash, including speedo, wiper assembly, high beam switch, and hood release. Wiring harness fully labelled and removed. Semaphores are also out so now I can send those off to be restored. It's too bad we didn't know they were completely disconnected prior to starting the engine as I'd have really liked to see them work.

So we're just one bolt away from getting the body off! Cool then we can tackle getting that frustrating engine stud out of the transmission and get the engine out.... And then I can get the rest of the stuff off the pan and clean it to be worked on. So close, yet so far. My dad will bring a full tank of acetylene so we can continue.

My brother also dropped off my custom body dolly today so she can wheel around the garage off the pan. Smile
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1954 Beetle - because I can
2016 Golf highline - hubby’s daily
2016 Golf R - my daily


Last edited by TheLadyBug on Sun Sep 14, 2014 11:09 pm; edited 2 times in total
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PostPosted: Sun Sep 14, 2014 10:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Blue Baron wrote:
Charmaine's54 wrote:
I'm hoping to get my hands on some drop spindles and king pins etc locally (the other 'not stock' thing we're doing to the car).

I think a VW looks right with the stock suspension, but it could always be reversed.

And even though I'm an evil purist, I see no reason not to add seat belts. I put them in our split.


I was up in the air about lowering it... I'm a bit of a purist in that I want it as it came and I always maintained when we were looking at cars to buy that ones that were modded at all were not for me. I insisted on stock, stock, stock! But... My husband said he wanted it lower and I do prefer the look of lowered cars. In still on the fence. We're a ways away from making any hard decisions about it but I'm not cutting anything on the car to slam it so it can always be put back to stock ride height.


I also feel better knowing you put seatbelts in. I'm having a complex about permanently altering the pan in a way that's not original!
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2016 Golf R - my daily
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57BLITZ
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PostPosted: Sun Sep 14, 2014 11:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

FWIW . . . I think you have two darn cute reasons for installing seat belts!
You give them rides in a car without belts and I bet you would hear from a lot more people than you will hear about making a"non-stock" modification to your car.

Now as for the lowering . . . consider getting a second beam/ front end. I put my original front suspension in storage and installed a front end out of a '64 that is equipped with adjusters. It has a steering damper and it is easier to buy brake parts for the late cars (READ; brake drums!). It's a bolt in and can be replaced in a weekend!
In the rear, re-setting the torsion bars is all that is needed to bring it down out back.
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TheLadyBug
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PostPosted: Mon Sep 15, 2014 8:23 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

57BLITZ wrote:
FWIW . . . I think you have two darn cute reasons for installing seat belts!
You give them rides in a car without belts and I bet you would hear from a lot more people than you will hear about making a"non-stock" modification to your car.

Now as for the lowering . . . consider getting a second beam/ front end. I put my original front suspension in storage and installed a front end out of a '64 that is equipped with adjusters. It has a steering damper and it is easier to buy brake parts for the late cars (READ; brake drums!). It's a bolt in and can be replaced in a weekend!
In the rear, re-setting the torsion bars is all that is needed to bring it down out back.


Oh the seatbelts are definitely going in. No question. It's just hard on my head to alter the car Wink

I doubt we'll do 2 front ends. I think I'm going to be happy with it lowered subtly. Nothing crazy, just not 'tractor' like it is stock... Hehe.

I'm going to start bring things into the house today for working on over winter. I'll go through all my bags of stuff and clean it all over winter. I'm going to try separate things that I think we won't put back on the car I to one box and all the stuff that we can clean up and reuse into another. And I'm going to see about sending my semaphores off and my speedo off to be restored.
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PostPosted: Mon Sep 15, 2014 6:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

It's a stock 54. Why mess up perfection by lowering it?
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 17, 2014 12:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Good news. Body is off. Exactly 1 month to the day after we bought her.

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


And we got the engine out. That worried me! The stud was bent.


Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


Bad news. The final bolt remaining snapped off before we took the body off... in the encapsulated nut. How do we get that out? We used the acetylene and loaded it up with penetrating oilabd it snapped at first attempt.


Any advice would be appreciated.
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2016 Golf R - my daily
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 17, 2014 1:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Charmaine's54 wrote:
Blue Baron wrote:
Charmaine's54 wrote:
I'm hoping to get my hands on some drop spindles and king pins etc locally (the other 'not stock' thing we're doing to the car).

I think a VW looks right with the stock suspension, but it could always be reversed.

And even though I'm an evil purist, I see no reason not to add seat belts. I put them in our split.


I was up in the air about lowering it... I'm a bit of a purist in that I want it as it came and I always maintained when we were looking at cars to buy that ones that were modded at all were not for me. I insisted on stock, stock, stock! But... My husband said he wanted it lower and I do prefer the look of lowered cars.

Aach! Something told me the husband was behind this!

Just put a full tool box in the trunk and keep a full tank of gas! Wink

Charmaine's54 wrote:

We ran out of acetylene, but got 3 bolts heated up and removed!!

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


Yes! That's how you remove rusted bolts!
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 17, 2014 2:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Charmaine's54 wrote:

Bad news. The final bolt remaining snapped off before we took the body off... in the encapsulated nut. How do we get that out? We used the acetylene and loaded it up with penetrating oil and it snapped at first attempt.

Any advice would be appreciated.

You mean the fourth bolt under the front bulkhead?

The same way you'll have to do the others, drill out and tap the threads. Either that or cut the heather channel and remove the encapsulated nut, which actually is a floating part that captures the threads of both nuts. With the part removed you can heat and work out the snapped off bolt or replace the entire part with one from a donor heater channel.

(I may be using sixties VW knowledge here, and a '54 might be different, so I'm sure those more expert than me will chime in.)
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 17, 2014 2:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Blue Baron wrote:
Charmaine's54 wrote:

Bad news. The final bolt remaining snapped off before we took the body off... in the encapsulated nut. How do we get that out? We used the acetylene and loaded it up with penetrating oil and it snapped at first attempt.

Any advice would be appreciated.

You mean the fourth bolt under the front bulkhead?

The same way you'll have to do the others, drill out and tap the threads. Either that or cut the heather channel and remove the encapsulated nut, which actually is a floating part that captures the threads of both nuts. With the part removed you can heat and work out the snapped off bolt or replace the entire part with one from a donor heater channel.

(I may be using sixties VW knowledge here, and a '54 might be different, so I'm sure those more expert than me will chime in.)


I ask how we drill it out as the bolt is floating around in there. Very difficult to drill. Yes it's the bolt from the front bulkhead. Where is the best place to cut the hole? This snapped bolt made me very sad.
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1954 Beetle - because I can
2016 Golf highline - hubby’s daily
2016 Golf R - my daily
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 17, 2014 2:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The plate does "float", but you can bolt it back down with a short bolt in the other hole! Wink

It will come out of a hole that you can cut in the side of the heater channel. You will have a hole that will need to be welded closed when you are finished repairing/replacing the "nut plate".

Or . . . try the MIG trick I was telling you about for removing broken bolts.
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 17, 2014 3:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

57BLITZ wrote:
The plate does "float", but you can bolt it back down with a short bolt in the other hole! Wink

It will come out of a hole that you can cut in the side of the heater channel. You will have a hole that will need to be welded closed when you are finished repairing/replacing the "nut plate".

Or . . . try the MIG trick I was telling you about for removing broken bolts.


Of course! Duh. Obviously haven't had time to 'think' properly.

Yes we're gonna try the MIG trick on the other 2 and will try that with this one.
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2016 Golf R - my daily
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 17, 2014 3:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Charmaine's54 wrote:
Yes we're gonna try the MIG trick on the other 2 and will try that with this one.


COOL! I think you will be impressed with how well it works!
One tip is to use a spring-loaded center punch in the center of the broken bolt, then drill in enough to clean the end of the broken bolt as well as giving the MIG wire a nice spot in the center of the bolt to begin its arc. Weld a blob on the end of the bolt until the spot of weld "bead" is slightly smaller than the bolt. Make sure that you don't accidentally weld the bolt to the body sheet metal. As soon as the blob turns black, hit it again the same way. Build up the blobs, one on top of the other until the stack of blobs is far enough out of the hole to put a nut on the blobs and weld the nut in place. After the nut is welded on, use a wrench to turn the broken bolt IN slightly. When it gives way, you might hear it creak, and that's when to give it some oil. run it back and forth to work the oil in and turning the nut a little more each time.
Remember that that bolt has had 60 years to get stuck . . . you might need to weld it again if your first attempt breaks the weld. I have had to re-weld a new not on as many as three times before the rust gave in.
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