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VWCOOL
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Joined: June 02, 2006
Posts: 1821
Location: Down under
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 Posted: Wed Aug 27, 2014 2:49 am Post subject: |
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| kielbasa wrote: |
| I would atleast round those corners out. Ive noticed tunnels want to crack when corners are cut and not welded back in place. |
yes, I have seen a car so cracked and loose from this 'clutch access hole' that mates were noticing the front wheels/beam shimmying as I jacked up the car.. and no it wasn't my car!
Back to the thread... awesome effort on restoring this veteran VW |
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johnshenry 
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Joined: September 21, 2001
Posts: 9364
Location: Northwood, NH USA
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| Posted: Wed Aug 27, 2014 6:26 am Post subject: |
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| Porsche904 wrote: |
| rod_vw wrote: |
| johnshenry wrote: |
| The brake light switch harness runs down the left side of the spare tire well and exits through one of the retaining tab holes on the backside of the well. The harness is 1150mm long. A rubber grommet is used in the hole. |
Thanks John Henry I was coming to that conclusion myself as no other logical exit holes were visible. A pointer as to which of the tab holes was used would be nice but again guessing it would be one to the left of centre to match the entry slot in the push bar cover. Am I correct?
Is the brake light switch loom separate or is it part of the right front light loom at this point? All detail is gratefully received.
I am sorry to be asking stupid questions but it is almost forty years since I dismantled the car and these details have been lost to a 66 year old's memory. |
It's a separate 2wire harness, running from fuse box down to brake cylinder |
It is a 2 wire harness made up of two black wires with red striping. In some early cars I have seen aluminum wrapped wire used (like the taillights, but 2 conductors), but usually it is black cloth loom. It exits the leftmost tab hole, and then comes across behind the tire well to the framehead for cable brake cars. There is a round grommet used in the tab hole, even though the hole is not actually round.
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John Henry
'57 Deluxe
'56 Single Cab |
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splitjunkie
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Joined: April 04, 2006
Posts: 4092
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| Posted: Wed Aug 27, 2014 6:58 am Post subject: |
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| rod_vw wrote: |
nlorntson, don't let the clutch cable access hatch worry you. It replaces a very crudely hacked hole of similar size and has been installed by one of the best VW restoration engineers in the UK. It is by no means a simple plate over a hole!
Just as a matter of interest relating to the strength of the early VW chassis backbone, the hole that was in the tunnel when I bought the car was almost as large and had been hacked out crudely with no cover of any type. This hole had been in place during a part of the car's lifetime when I believe it was used in motoring competitions. No chassis distortion was evident then so I am confident non will occur after this reinforced engineering solution has been applied. |
Might very well be as strong as if it had no hole but the time any weakness may show itself is during an accident.
This appears to be a piece of sheet metal screwed on but you get the idea.
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Chris
You know, a lot of these scratches will buff right out... Jerry Seinfeld |
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virtanen
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Joined: January 08, 2006
Posts: 1461
Location: Finland
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VWCOOL
Samba Member
Joined: June 02, 2006
Posts: 1821
Location: Down under
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| Posted: Wed Aug 27, 2014 7:18 am Post subject: |
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| splitjunkie wrote: |
| rod_vw wrote: |
nlorntson, don't let the clutch cable access hatch worry you. It replaces a very crudely hacked hole of similar size and has been installed by one of the best VW restoration engineers in the UK. It is by no means a simple plate over a hole!
Just as a matter of interest relating to the strength of the early VW chassis backbone, the hole that was in the tunnel when I bought the car was almost as large and had been hacked out crudely with no cover of any type. This hole had been in place during a part of the car's lifetime when I believe it was used in motoring competitions. No chassis distortion was evident then so I am confident non will occur after this reinforced engineering solution has been applied. |
Might very well be as strong as if it had no hole but the time any weakness may show itself is during an accident.
This appears to be a piece of sheet metal screwed on but you get the idea.
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OUCH!
However that clutch hole is not in as 'critical' position as the one posted earlier. |
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johnshenry
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Joined: September 21, 2001
Posts: 9364
Location: Northwood, NH USA
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| Posted: Wed Aug 27, 2014 7:25 am Post subject: |
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Based on the other damage seen in the pic above, I'm not convinced a hole caused it whereas it would otherwise have held straight (I know Chris is not inferring that either...).
I do agree that the cut, especially on the top of the tunnel will compromise the rigidity a bit, but the way a restored '46 will be driven it will probably never be an issue. I opted to weld up the huge cutout in my '51 because it was quite a bit larger... and that is just the way I am.
You get hit as hard as that one in the pic above, you probably have other issues besides a bend tunnel...... 
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John Henry
'57 Deluxe
'56 Single Cab |
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splitjunkie
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Joined: April 04, 2006
Posts: 4092
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| Posted: Wed Aug 27, 2014 1:00 pm Post subject: |
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| johnshenry wrote: |
Based on the other damage seen in the pic above, I'm not convinced a hole caused it whereas it would otherwise have held straight (I know Chris is not inferring that either...).
I do agree that the cut, especially on the top of the tunnel will compromise the rigidity a bit, but the way a restored '46 will be driven it will probably never be an issue. I opted to weld up the huge cutout in my '51 because it was quite a bit larger... and that is just the way I am.
You get hit as hard as that one in the pic above, you probably have other issues besides a bend tunnel...... |
In this case the guy hit a tree at about 45 with the front drivers side. It bent the front beam as well as the center tunnel. When the beam gets pushed backward that drives the steering column toward the driver. Splits and ovals have the flat steering wheel and long column whereas the car in the picture had a shorter column with the dish wheel which does have some give to it. In this case the wheel collapsed on the guys upper lip.
You can read about it here.
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?p=7341071&highlight=#7341071
My point is that cutting holes in any of the structural parts of a Beetle can cause unforeseen consequences in an accident. In this example that hole was right below the factory hole for the shifter (which is reenforced) and the tunnel bent badly there. The screws held the plate on but it is bent badly. Did the added hole make any difference as far as the survivability of the crash. In this case the guy survived but it might have made some difference in how much the tunnel bent and how far the steering wheel invaded the cockpit.
I would argue that the hole further up toward the frame head might be a worse position in a similar collision. We are dealing with cars that are well over 60 years old. Even ones that are really solid are not as strong as they were when new due to rust and flexing that happens every time you drive a car. They were designed well before airbags and crumple zones. In an accident the structural integrity of the car is the only thing that can mean the difference between walking away and getting carried away.
We see a lot of these sorts of holes for working on the shifter bushing or clutch. They make it very easy to work on those parts. VW obviously didn't put removable plates in these spots for a reason. I would hazard to guess they didn't because their crash testing showed that they would cause problems during an accident.
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Chris
You know, a lot of these scratches will buff right out... Jerry Seinfeld |
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Martin Southwell
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Joined: November 24, 2010
Posts: 984
Location: Bath, England
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| Posted: Wed Aug 27, 2014 4:00 pm Post subject: |
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| Brake cylinder on a 46? It has cable brakes! |
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henry roberts
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Joined: February 24, 2003
Posts: 1275
Location: australia
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| Posted: Wed Aug 27, 2014 5:11 pm Post subject: |
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| rod_vw wrote: |
| This hole had been in place during a part of the car's lifetime when I believe it was used in motoring competitions. |
right, you've got my attention. could we please get some more details? a 46 is something special but a '46 with competition history WOW! (if it is the ex peter noad '46 rego "TLC 116" I will probably squeal like a girl, jump up and down and do a little dance.  ) |
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johnshenry
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Joined: September 21, 2001
Posts: 9364
Location: Northwood, NH USA
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| Posted: Wed Aug 27, 2014 5:47 pm Post subject: |
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| Quote: |
| In an accident the structural integrity of the car is the only thing that can mean the difference between walking away and getting carried away. |
That and wearing a seatbelt.... which the guy in the white beetle wasn't....
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John Henry
'57 Deluxe
'56 Single Cab |
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rod_vw
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Joined: December 20, 2006
Posts: 416
Location: Shropshire, UK
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| Posted: Mon Feb 16, 2015 8:01 am Post subject: |
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| henry roberts wrote: |
| rod_vw wrote: |
| This hole had been in place during a part of the car's lifetime when I believe it was used in motoring competitions. |
right, you've got my attention. could we please get some more details? a 46 is something special but a '46 with competition history WOW! (if it is the ex peter noad '46 rego "TLC 116" I will probably squeal like a girl, jump up and down and do a little dance. ) |
I am coming back to this thread as for some reason I did not get notifications of many of the later comments.
Re the car being used in competition, no it isn't Peter Noad's car or one that he used as far as I know.
It has however had a very chequered past. Its history is unknown but I suspect that it has not been used since the mid 1960's due to a smashed differential! The engine is 1947 by number and survives after total rebuild to be used when the restoration is complete.
The body has had many items fitted of which the only evidence is innumerable holes left where bolts and screws have been. These holes give the impression that extra lights and similar items may have been fitted. These and the obvious ill treatment of the gearbox point to somewhat more arduous use than that on normal British roads.
Now back to my original requests...
1. I would like detail of the underside of the front hood where the turn catch mechanism fits. Thanks Mika for the inner section.
2. Can someone give me the exact location of the hole that brings the horn wire from the column tube into the front luggage area?
3. Where exactly does the brake light switch wiring loom run out of the luggage area towards the switch? Thanks Mika for the picture.
4. What should be in the filler neck of the fuel tank? Ours looks as if something has been removed from the inside. Spot welds drilled out? – Thanks for the ideas, I’ve still no certain knowledge of what mine was like originally.
5. Which design of sun visor and interior mirror should be fitted? Thanks RairAir
6. How is the rear of the headliner fixed above the rear window? Still looking for an answer
7. As much detail as possible of any differences between the wiring looms of this 1946 can and a 1947 car.
Thanks for your input.
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Rod,
Please visit http://www.historicvws.org.uk
https://www.facebook.com/historicvwclub/
1946 Beetle (Back on the road after over 50 years! Last major outing - Hessisch Oldendorf 2022)
2016 T6 Selfbuild Camper and a LWB MAN TGE in build. |
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johnshenry
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Joined: September 21, 2001
Posts: 9364
Location: Northwood, NH USA
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| Posted: Mon Feb 16, 2015 9:19 am Post subject: |
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I can answer your last question. In terms of wire color and lengths, there will be no differences between a '46 and '47 harness. I have in my library of "reference" harnesses a couple '46s, and a '48. These are not complete harnesses, but ones that are complete enough to verify wire color and length. I usually get, or buy them from people whom I have made harnesses for. I tell people it is kind of like building a complete dinosaur skeleton out of 3-4 sets of bones. Where one set is missing something (cut off wire, etc.) you can go look at the others and see what it is.
There are subtle differences in material used in the mid late 40s however. The '46 harnesses had PVC like covering in some sections, and were wrapped with a brown twine in other areas. In '48, the actually wrapped tiny pieces of thread around the ends of the wires for color marking. PVC sheathing was still used.
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John Henry
'57 Deluxe
'56 Single Cab |
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rod_vw
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Joined: December 20, 2006
Posts: 416
Location: Shropshire, UK
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| Posted: Mon Feb 16, 2015 9:58 am Post subject: |
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Thanks JH, that confirms some of my thoughts. I only have the very tired remains of the main loom which is as you say PVC (or something similar) outer covering. None of the other looms survived the many alterations that had been carried out on the car in the past.
PM Sent
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Rod,
Please visit http://www.historicvws.org.uk
https://www.facebook.com/historicvwclub/
1946 Beetle (Back on the road after over 50 years! Last major outing - Hessisch Oldendorf 2022)
2016 T6 Selfbuild Camper and a LWB MAN TGE in build. |
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virtanen
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Location: Finland
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virtanen
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virtanen
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rod_vw
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Joined: December 20, 2006
Posts: 416
Location: Shropshire, UK
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| Posted: Mon Feb 16, 2015 10:34 am Post subject: |
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| virtanen wrote: |
At least 51 split has these tabs (5 pcs) where the cardboard of the headliner is fastened.
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Thanks Mika, I assume that the picture is of a inner rear panel seen from the inside. The part that cannot be seen with the parts assembled. The tabs being on the inside making five places for the headlining card to be hooked over. Am I correct in thinking that?
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Rod,
Please visit http://www.historicvws.org.uk
https://www.facebook.com/historicvwclub/
1946 Beetle (Back on the road after over 50 years! Last major outing - Hessisch Oldendorf 2022)
2016 T6 Selfbuild Camper and a LWB MAN TGE in build. |
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rod_vw
Samba Member
Joined: December 20, 2006
Posts: 416
Location: Shropshire, UK
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| Posted: Mon Feb 16, 2015 10:36 am Post subject: |
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| virtanen wrote: |
Here an original grommet in a 51 split.
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These wires are for the horn? Fitted with 'eye' connections I assume so, is that correct?
Stop light switch will have plain ends to terminate under grub screws?
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Rod,
Please visit http://www.historicvws.org.uk
https://www.facebook.com/historicvwclub/
1946 Beetle (Back on the road after over 50 years! Last major outing - Hessisch Oldendorf 2022)
2016 T6 Selfbuild Camper and a LWB MAN TGE in build. |
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virtanen
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virtanen
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Posts: 1461
Location: Finland
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| Posted: Mon Feb 16, 2015 10:40 am Post subject: |
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| rod_vw wrote: |
| virtanen wrote: |
Here an original grommet in a 51 split.
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These wires are for the horn? Fitted with 'eye' connections I assume so, is that correct?
Stop light switch will have plain ends to terminate under grub screws? |
NO. These are for brake switch for 51 hydraulic brakes.
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Mika
Split beetle restoration panels
Oval beetle restoration panels
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