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jvulich
Samba Member
Joined: May 06, 2010
Posts: 215
Location: Clovis
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 Posted: Fri Aug 15, 2014 3:31 pm Post subject: VW38/03 - The oldest surviving Beetle |
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Moderator note:
This topic was created by splitting it off from the VW38/06 topic.
I copied a summary that was posted in this thread by Björn Schewe below. If anyone wants to add any information please post in this thread or PM EverettB and I will add any additional information or photos that are made available.
Summary:
In the early 1940, VW 38/03 was modified into a wooden gas car, based on a type 82 Chassis
After the war, the car was found in a hidden corner of the Volkswgaen Factory.
A Volkswagen dealer of the small city of Kreinsen restored the car in 1953 / 1954. They fixed a brandnew Oval window body on the lowered Type 82 chassis and changed details like the rear window, decklid and dashborad.
As the oldes survived Volkswagen beetle, the car was stocked in the non-official, historical Volkswagen collection wich was founded in the 1950s. Since the Volkswagen AutoMuseum opend, the car was on display.
In the late 1990, the car was restored for the second time by Oliver Herboltzheimer - he tried his best to bring the car in its original conditon from 1938.
It the past, he had detailed pictures of the restoration at his website , but actually they are deleted.http://www.radsatzwerkstatt.de/
Original post:
It is the oldest surviving body, the other car in the museum has a later body. |
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kdfkid
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Joined: April 20, 2004
Posts: 395
Location: Hessisch Oldendorf Germany
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| Posted: Sat Aug 16, 2014 1:08 pm Post subject: 1938 |
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He splitejunkie,
sorry but the doors are orginal and by the way the only surveing doors from 1938( the carbio annd the Nr. 3 dont have orginal doors )
Bye Christian |
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splitjunkie
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Joined: April 04, 2006
Posts: 4090
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| Posted: Sat Aug 16, 2014 2:25 pm Post subject: Re: 1938 |
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| kdfkid wrote: |
He splitejunkie,
sorry but the doors are orginal and by the way the only surveing doors from 1938( the carbio annd the Nr. 3 dont have orginal doors )
Bye Christian |
That is what I was saying. Nr 3 has later doors and aprons and other bits and pieces but is the original body.
I was replying to to Jvulich who said that Nr 3 had a later body on it.
I have been on this thread since page one so I know that Nr 6 has the only set of original vw38 sedan doors known to exist.
I didn't realize that the cabrio had later doors.
_________________
Chris
You know, a lot of these scratches will buff right out... Jerry Seinfeld |
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jvulich
Samba Member
Joined: May 06, 2010
Posts: 215
Location: Clovis
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| Posted: Tue Aug 19, 2014 1:08 pm Post subject: |
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| From what I've read, number 3 was restored by the factory using a later body which was then later doctored up to look more correct. I don't remember where I read it. |
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Blue Baron
VW Aficionado
Joined: June 16, 2006
Posts: 24024
Location: Southeast USA
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| Posted: Tue Aug 19, 2014 2:27 pm Post subject: |
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From what I understand, No. 3 was converted into a woodburner late in the war, and then converted back into a regular sedan around 1950. Experts may have more information on this.
I've never seen any reference to the body being changed, and there are body details that are clearly VW 38. The factory did not care enough to doctor anything. Plus they would have needed a reference to copy from.
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We are striving for perfection, to make our cars run forever, if possible.
Heinz Nordhoff |
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splitjunkie
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Joined: April 04, 2006
Posts: 4090
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| Posted: Wed Aug 20, 2014 2:31 pm Post subject: |
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| jvulich wrote: |
| From what I've read, number 3 was restored by the factory using a later body which was then later doctored up to look more correct. I don't remember where I read it. |
That is definitely not correct.
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Chris
You know, a lot of these scratches will buff right out... Jerry Seinfeld |
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kdfkid
Samba Member
Joined: April 20, 2004
Posts: 395
Location: Hessisch Oldendorf Germany
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| Posted: Wed Aug 20, 2014 3:13 pm Post subject: 1938 |
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| Sorry - but this is correct ! |
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splitjunkie
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Joined: April 04, 2006
Posts: 4090
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| Posted: Wed Aug 20, 2014 6:34 pm Post subject: Re: 1938 |
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| kdfkid wrote: |
| Sorry - but this is correct ! |
So when did this body replacement and doctoring take place?
Pictures of number 3 in the Keith Seume book from 1997 and Terry Shuler's The origin and evolution of the VW Beetle shows the dash and panel underneath are clearly not production parts. The panel underneath has the circular pressing with the radiating lines just like the part reproduced for number 6. The rear decklid is obviously correct and the rear vent has 24 slots per side. The car obviously has later doors, a later rear apron and later bumpers with banana guards, later tail lights and popes nose, a later steering wheel and a much later 25 hp engine as well as other incorrect parts. The car had obviously been patched up over the years.
Were portions of the roof, the decklid and the dash and panel underneith all transplanted before these pictures were taken?
I know the car was redone in the time since those pictures were taken and they made a repro correct popes nose and bumpers as well as a new paint job and interior. Was the body replaced during this restoration?
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Chris
You know, a lot of these scratches will buff right out... Jerry Seinfeld |
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kdfkid
Samba Member
Joined: April 20, 2004
Posts: 395
Location: Hessisch Oldendorf Germany
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| Posted: Wed Aug 20, 2014 8:46 pm Post subject: 1938 |
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Hi Chris,
during the 2. restauration ( in the 90ths ) they found out that body and pan was changed ( i got the restaurion pictures ) In the 50ths when the car 1 time was restaured - they took a new split body and chassis and butchered parts from nr. 3 into this new body. The parts used were the dash, the rear window, the back lid and the front gas tank with holder. The rest of the car was not used. All other parts of the car were from a 1950 51 split .
Christian |
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Björn Schewe
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Joined: April 21, 2004
Posts: 633
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| Posted: Thu Aug 21, 2014 1:33 am Post subject: |
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In the early 1940, VW 38/03 was modified into a wooden gas car, based on a type 82 Chassis
After the war, the car was found in a hidden corner of the Volkswgaen Factory.
A Volkswagen dealer of the small city of Kreinsen restored the car in 1953 / 1954. They fixed a brandnew Oval window body on the lowered Type 82 chassis and changed details like the rear window, decklid and dashborad.
As the oldes survived Volkswagen beetle, the car was stocked in the non-official, historical Volkswagen collection wich was founded in the 1950s. Since the Volkswagen AutoMuseum opend, the car was on display.
In the late 1990, the car was restored for the second time by Oliver Herboltzheimer - he tried his best to bring the car in its original conditon from 1938.
It the past, he had detailed pictures of the restoration at his website , but actually they are deleted.http://www.radsatzwerkstatt.de/ |
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splitjunkie
Samba Member
Joined: April 04, 2006
Posts: 4090
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| Posted: Thu Aug 21, 2014 4:13 am Post subject: |
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very interesting. Thanks to the both of you for the explanation. So only parts of the original body exist and the pan was changed at some point during the war.
We all know that the restoration of number 6 is far more accurate than number 3 but even as hacked up as number 6 was, there is far more of the original car than number 3.
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Chris
You know, a lot of these scratches will buff right out... Jerry Seinfeld |
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Björn Schewe
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Joined: April 21, 2004
Posts: 633
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| Posted: Thu Aug 21, 2014 6:16 am Post subject: |
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| splitjunkie wrote: |
very interesting. Thanks to the both of you for the explanation. So only parts of the original body exist and the pan was changed at some point during the war.
We all know that the restoration of number 6 is far more accurate than number 3 but even as hacked up as number 6 was, there is far more of the original car than number 3. |
Yes. Today a shame - but if you think about that the car was 15 year old when it was restored for the first time, that "matching number" was an unkonwn world and that everybody who was interested in vintage cars at that time was just a freak, we could be happy that the car was saved between all the cears.
It is the same like if you are restoring a 1999 New Beetle today. |
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Blue Baron
VW Aficionado
Joined: June 16, 2006
Posts: 24024
Location: Southeast USA
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| Posted: Thu Aug 21, 2014 8:01 am Post subject: |
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Thank you for the clarification that the car was remanufactured. Surprising they would piece together a body so long ago to keep certain details.
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We are striving for perfection, to make our cars run forever, if possible.
Heinz Nordhoff |
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splitjunkie
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Joined: April 04, 2006
Posts: 4090
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| Posted: Thu Aug 21, 2014 9:28 am Post subject: |
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| Blue Baron wrote: |
| Thank you for the clarification that the car was remanufactured. Surprising they would piece together a body so long ago to keep certain details. |
Yes that does seem strange. This does explain a few details that I thought were just updates that had been done on the car over it's life.
It has the weatherstrip channel around the decklid area. The car has a production H apron which would have had them but the two sides of the rear quarters have them as well. The firewall also has the little triangular tabs that were used for holding the tarboards in place. A later shell could certainly explain these very minor but later details being there.
These details were very clear in the pictures I mentioned.I don't know if they were addressed during the last restoration.
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Chris
You know, a lot of these scratches will buff right out... Jerry Seinfeld |
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Jack O'Neill
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Joined: March 23, 2009
Posts: 102
Location: Israel
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| Posted: Thu Aug 21, 2014 6:59 pm Post subject: Re: 1938 |
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| kdfkid wrote: |
The parts used were the dash, the rear window, the back lid and the front gas tank with holder. The rest of the car was not used. All other parts of the car were from a 1950 51 split .
Christian |
...so, are you sayng that somewere there's a huge pile of discarded n° 3 parts? 
But seriously(ish), maybe someday those discarded parts would find their way to the Grundmanns garage, as it should be, and we'll have n° 3 ½! |
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Undis
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Joined: October 24, 2006
Posts: 1396
Location: Riga, Latvia & Sydney, Australia
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| Posted: Fri Aug 22, 2014 9:31 pm Post subject: |
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Thanks Everett,
I think this car deserves its own thread. I feel it's been a bit of a mystery as there has been very little information forthcoming about its history.
This is VW's own version on how the car ended up in their collection. This is from a book I purchased in the VW museum back in 1991. So they confirm that the car had been fitted with a wood generator and had parts or full running gear of a Kubelwagen fitted. Also it says that the car was dismantled and hidden but only the body was later recovered. This means they only had a somewhat damaged body to start with. Of course nothing is mentioned about them using a complete post-war body as the basis for the restoration.
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Undis
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Joined: October 24, 2006
Posts: 1396
Location: Riga, Latvia & Sydney, Australia
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| Posted: Sat Aug 23, 2014 3:56 am Post subject: |
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Some period photos of car VW38/03.
These look like they are from a publicity photo shoot. The purpose of this was not just to test the cars in all driving conditions but also to demonstrate to the public the capabilities of the new people's car. Check out the roof rack with skis.
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Undis
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Joined: October 24, 2006
Posts: 1396
Location: Riga, Latvia & Sydney, Australia
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| Posted: Sat Aug 23, 2014 4:01 am Post subject: |
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Another heavily airbrushed publicity shot. Just imagine pulling a trailer with this.
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Undis
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Joined: October 24, 2006
Posts: 1396
Location: Riga, Latvia & Sydney, Australia
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| Posted: Sat Aug 23, 2014 4:07 am Post subject: |
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A couple of photos of how the car looked like after its first restoration.
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Porsche904
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Joined: March 14, 2014
Posts: 192
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| Posted: Sat Aug 23, 2014 7:53 am Post subject: |
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| Undis wrote: |
Another heavily airbrushed publicity shot. Just imagine pulling a trailer with this.
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No problem for No.3 pulling this Berger trailer, aprox. weigth is 250kg  |
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