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zodlaw Samba Member
Joined: July 27, 2005 Posts: 507 Location: Battle Ground, Wa.
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Posted: Wed Aug 27, 2014 10:17 pm Post subject: Need some suggestions for tire size |
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I got theses wheels and they are getting painted this week.
They are 15x6 on all four wheels and they are going on this.
4 inch beam, drp spindles, lowered ball joints etc. Before I go dump money on tires I was looking for some input on tires. I think the back spacing is 4 inches. The back is just inside the lip.
I am open for some ideas. I was toying around with the 165/50 in the front but no sure. Thanks for any input, suggestions or options. _________________ 68 build that had been sitting for 18yr in a garage.
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?p=8119987#8119
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luckystiff Samba Member
Joined: September 28, 2005 Posts: 2252 Location: hickory,nc
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Posted: Thu Aug 28, 2014 7:01 am Post subject: |
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165/60/15 front 185/65/15 rear. there is no need to run 165/50/15 on a type1 in my opinion.
my 66 was about that ride height and did fine with 175/55/15. i change wheels on all my cars alot but i think i also had 185/55/15 on 5.5" wide wheels on it for a bit to. and probably something with 145/65/15 also.
you could probably do 195/65/15 out back and be fine also. i had 205/65/15 on the back of my 66 for a while with no problems.
i usually hit my good used tire guy for rears anyhow and spend the money to be more choosey on the fronts. $25ea mounted/balanced and if i come back in a day or two my tire guy will swap to a smaller larger size for $5ea to cover mount/balance. _________________ ITMC
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zodlaw Samba Member
Joined: July 27, 2005 Posts: 507 Location: Battle Ground, Wa.
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Posted: Thu Aug 28, 2014 7:49 am Post subject: |
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Right now its sitting on just the narrowed beam with the 165s up front. The spindles are sitting in a box waiting till I get some time to install them. I had to cut the back of the light buckets off to actually move the bug. The front was pushed in a little which is kind of an understatement. I will be putting some plates on the back of the light buckets after I get the tire thing figured out. It sounds like it mostly trial and error type of thing. I have yet to find around my area tires for $25 and that’s with guys on craigslist. The 165/60 would have a lot more side wall that is for sure. Do you think the 165/60 would stretch a little on the 6” wide wheel? _________________ 68 build that had been sitting for 18yr in a garage.
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?p=8119987#8119
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luckystiff Samba Member
Joined: September 28, 2005 Posts: 2252 Location: hickory,nc
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Posted: Fri Aug 29, 2014 6:35 pm Post subject: |
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165r15 = 25.5 overall diameter(roughly)
165/60/15 = 22.8" overall diameter
165/50/15 = 21.5" overall diameter
175/55/15 = 22.6" overall diameter
185/55/15 = 23' overall diameter
145/65/15 = 22.4" overall diameter
i take 165/50/15 and 165/45/15 out of the running on any type1 especially a balljoint based car and you never get low enough to cure fender gap in my opinion. i didn't even like the 145/65/15 on my 65 all that much but they were new on a set of wheels i bought so i used them.
my top 2 choices on a balljoint type1 would probably be 165/60/15 or 185/55/15. either of those are at least 2.5" smaller overall diameter meaning you have an extra 1.25" of clearance to those headlight buckets from the drop in sidewall height. it also means 1.25" of lowering through drop in sidewall height...
another thing that really helps if you want to be LOW of a balljoint based t1 is to piecut the panhead to add caster....ken.... _________________ ITMC
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luckystiff Samba Member
Joined: September 28, 2005 Posts: 2252 Location: hickory,nc
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Posted: Fri Aug 29, 2014 6:44 pm Post subject: |
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the 185/55/15s i used were Achilles ATR Sports from tires-easy.com when i bought them they were $40 each. they had went up to $57 last i looked looks like they are back down to $45 now.... _________________ ITMC
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zodlaw Samba Member
Joined: July 27, 2005 Posts: 507 Location: Battle Ground, Wa.
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luckystiff Samba Member
Joined: September 28, 2005 Posts: 2252 Location: hickory,nc
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Posted: Sun Aug 31, 2014 6:59 am Post subject: |
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i'd go 185/55 before 195/50 _________________ ITMC
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zodlaw Samba Member
Joined: July 27, 2005 Posts: 507 Location: Battle Ground, Wa.
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zodlaw Samba Member
Joined: July 27, 2005 Posts: 507 Location: Battle Ground, Wa.
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luckystiff Samba Member
Joined: September 28, 2005 Posts: 2252 Location: hickory,nc
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Posted: Sun Aug 31, 2014 2:56 pm Post subject: |
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it's been a long time but i tried 195/50/15 WAY back on 2 different cars and wasn't happy with either one. they just had a weird "front tires are to wide and have to much grab" kinda feel. where the 185/55/15 felt like the perfect balance. i know it's weird but i've seen 2 tires of the same size measure 1/2" wider than each other.
it's also hard to take what others say. i know tons of folks that LOVE the 145/65/15. me personally i put them much lower on the list. only reason theres a pair on the front of my square is they were new and i was to cheap to buy new tires. not gonna say they were to blame but when i wrecked the square last april the front locked up fairly easy and started to slide. yeah the guy stopped short and i was gonna hit him any way it went. a little more grip and maybe i coulda reduced the impact a bit. but if you wanna play what ifs then the square would've probably not been as bad off if it were not slammed and my bumper had hit his bumper instead of my headlights leaving imprints on his bumper.... _________________ ITMC
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zodlaw Samba Member
Joined: July 27, 2005 Posts: 507 Location: Battle Ground, Wa.
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Posted: Sun Aug 31, 2014 4:45 pm Post subject: |
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I think I posted going air shocks down the road. So I hope what ever tire I pick will let me laybeam. I also thought about leaving the adjusters in and have that be my lowest point. As for tires in the back, I don't think it will matter as long as they don't stick out too far over the rim. I got some dropped plates to bolt up but still have the problem of the swing arm hitting the frame so lots to figure out still. Oh and by the way I still want to keep the rears at 25.5 or close to it, there are some shows few hrs from here I want to hit next year. _________________ 68 build that had been sitting for 18yr in a garage.
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?p=8119987#8119
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ALB Samba Member
Joined: August 05, 2008 Posts: 3483 Location: beautiful suburban Wet Coast of Canada
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Posted: Sat Sep 13, 2014 5:18 am Post subject: |
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To expand on the advice Luckystiff is giving- Remember that as you go shorter, the footprint is also shorter and this makes the tires less effective, especially when braking. Going narrower makes the footprint even smaller (and even more useless) and then you get into the situation he was talking about, where there's not enough tire on the front to stop the car adequately. I've ran both 135's and 145' (23 1/4 and almost 24" tall respectively) with Karmann Ghia disc brakes on a Cal Look bug with 185/70-15's on the back and found the braking a little unbalanced with the 145's and absolutely scary at times (dusty/dirt roads and in the rain) with the 135's. You could even lock the 135's up on dry pavement. Adding type 3 rear brakes definitely helped balance things out, but I was never really happy with the 135's (as well as poor braking, there wasn't enough tire on the road to handle all that well), and since this was before the explosion of tire sizes we have today, had to live with them. And since your rims are 6" wide, even 155/60's are too narrow (as well as holy cow! short) to fit properly.
With the 2 1/2" drop spindles and 23" tires you're going to end up with a 4-5" drop in the front (measured at the headlights), which is a fair bit of rake if the back is left at stock height. I think the 165/60's and the 175/55's are a little short, myself (I've got 185/60's on the front of my plastic Speedster), but Dunlop makes 175/60's (Enasave 01- 23.3" tall, about the same height as 135's), so more tread on the ground but not too wide. The only drawback is they are a little more expensive- $139 each at Tirerack. Luckystiff's recommendations will work as well. And the 165/60's will fit a 5-6 1/2" rim (according to Tirerack). It all depends on the budget and what you want...
The other thing Luckystiff mentioned is caster. I knew nothing about the effects of caster (or lack of) when I built my car almost 40 years ago. The car was lowered with the tires and a select-a-drop (twisting the top beam) and at highway speeds it wandered a little. At anything above about 70 or 75 (I took it up to about 105mph once and it was so uncontollable I shut it down right away) was outright dangerous. Stock caster is around 2 1/2 degrees and to be rock solid at highway speeds (and a little beyond !) you want 3 1/2 to 4. Pie cutting the pan would be great if it was all apart (and with a type 3 is the only option, I believe, because the front suspension is part of the car, is it not?), but since the beam is removable this is what caster shims are for. Since a good part of the lowering is being done by the drop spindles (and only has a little effect on the caster), start with a pair of thin shims (they go under the bottom beam and will add about 1.5 degrees iIrc) and see where that gets you. They're pretty cheap (10? $15? a pair) so if your're having them shipped you may want to order 2 sets, as you can stack them if you need to. You may need longer bottom bolts if running both, though. _________________ On a lifelong mission to prove (much to my wife's dismay) that Immaturity is Forever!! |
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zodlaw Samba Member
Joined: July 27, 2005 Posts: 507 Location: Battle Ground, Wa.
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Posted: Sat Sep 13, 2014 8:36 am Post subject: |
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As for the shims, I was thinking about that this week. I did run those on my 56 bug 25+ years ago like you said and we did not have all the goodies they have now. The rear is not stock height and I tried to work with the plates and its just as much work to use them as it is not to. I had it at 3 inner clicks and put it back to just 2. As far as tires 185s and 175s are on the plate. The budget is really slim and progress is slow. I hope to order tires in the next couple of weeks. Thanks for the suggestions you guys are great! _________________ 68 build that had been sitting for 18yr in a garage.
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?p=8119987#8119
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zodlaw Samba Member
Joined: July 27, 2005 Posts: 507 Location: Battle Ground, Wa.
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Posted: Wed Feb 11, 2015 9:22 pm Post subject: |
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So I thought I would post the pics I took the other day. It looks like I can purchase some front tires so I put on my front rim.
This is where my front beam is sitting.
This is about a 4x4 block
Side shot, Now I have about an inch from the rim to the inside of the fender.
and this is with it turned
I am still looking at all three of the sizes again..
185/55 ( think this would rub)
175/55 (.45 stick out)
165/50 (would be close .25 stick out)
I have not really found to many standards with these tire combos prob going to buy fronts in the next few days. Yes I want to run low but going to have some air shocks. Still open for some more suggestions _________________ 68 build that had been sitting for 18yr in a garage.
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?p=8119987#8119
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zodlaw Samba Member
Joined: July 27, 2005 Posts: 507 Location: Battle Ground, Wa.
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zodlaw Samba Member
Joined: July 27, 2005 Posts: 507 Location: Battle Ground, Wa.
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Posted: Wed Apr 01, 2015 10:30 am Post subject: |
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luckystiff wrote: |
another thing that really helps if you want to be LOW of a balljoint based t1 is to piecut the panhead to add caster....ken.... |
Ken,
Ok so I have been looking into the pie-cutting of the pan head and have a 220 welder lined up. So far what I have found out is I need to cut far back as possible. Also as far as how much .75 to 1 inch when It comes to the cut. I was just wondering what your suggestions would be for how much to cut out. I can put the beam on the ground now but as far as getting me clearance for my beam have not been able to figure that one out. Looking for suggestions by your experience with the ones you have done. _________________ 68 build that had been sitting for 18yr in a garage.
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?p=8119987#8119
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