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69vwcarl Samba Member
Joined: September 14, 2008 Posts: 138 Location: midland michigan
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Posted: Thu Aug 28, 2014 8:05 pm Post subject: Need some advice on my new 1955 OVAL. |
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Been driving my 66 panel every day for awhile now. I decided I wanted to get back into a type 1 always loved a small fun car. Well I might have put myself in a weird spot.... I picked up this clean but respray and kinda funky patched up May 55 under assumptions that it was on a different pan and missing motor. So Im thinking i could do decent channels pop it on a little later pan mod the stance to handle decent and drive the heck out of it by next summer Well after a little looking around.... Turns out This is a numbers matching Body/Pan/Trans/Engine....I have all documentation on this car. It is a ONE OWNER bug I have original New car purchase order from Gene Klein Motors Calif, June 9, 1955 for this Strato Silver bug for a whopping $1748.10 CASH!! the current title is still in original purchasers name. I have a book of records and oil changes and all tons of history.
I have all the Ribbed Fenders..(rough) and some other parts. it has some poor replacement steel.. wrong rear apron.
So now Im stuck and would like some suggestions. This bug needs a ton.. Do I weld in Ok metal. get it solid and drive it with a newer pan and stuff. I would keep all original parts. Or does the fact that its one owner numbers matching make it worth alot more ? to where i should RESTORE It which would take 10 Years to afford all the Gerson Klassic Fab metal and rare parts im most likely missing and make it a stock resto... Guess i dont know... _________________ LOVE splits more than Jean-Claude Van Damme |
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kielbasa Samba Member
Joined: November 28, 2007 Posts: 1443 Location: Garbage Grove, CA
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Posted: Thu Aug 28, 2014 8:16 pm Post subject: |
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Great find!
Let me give you my input. A few locals in my neighborhood stopped by seeing im wotking on a vw, and they flip their lid, when they realize what im doing to a early 55.
I have a small thread started with my build on here havent updated it though.
March 55, on correct pan. Getting rear flared fenders, bumper holes in fenders and front apron welded up (can you guess why?) 14" chaparal wheels. 2165cc motor, freeway flier
1pc windows in correct ribbed doors. Narrowed beam, and swayaway torsions/jaycee retainers in the rear.
Just a quick little write up, obviously a bit more im doing, but you get the picture. Basicly laye 70s callook. The way i see it is, its my car, my money, and im the one who is doing all the work. Ill build it the way i want to.
Now in your situation, if its all matching #s its worth more to keep it as is. If it were me, id keep it bone stock, and drive it as is, or sell it for a good profit, and have your self a decent budget to find the perfect car to do what you want with. _________________ Gotta give my props to:
Wolfsburg Motorsports
Dubbers Toy Box
Jeff's VW Speed and Fab
4inbore.com
Kielbasa Industries |
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kielbasa Samba Member
Joined: November 28, 2007 Posts: 1443 Location: Garbage Grove, CA
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Posted: Thu Aug 28, 2014 8:18 pm Post subject: |
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I will also one day have a split or oval baja too. My club currently has one of each. _________________ Gotta give my props to:
Wolfsburg Motorsports
Dubbers Toy Box
Jeff's VW Speed and Fab
4inbore.com
Kielbasa Industries |
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drscope Samba Member
Joined: February 19, 2007 Posts: 15273 Location: Baltimore, Maryland USA
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Posted: Fri Aug 29, 2014 9:26 am Post subject: |
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Only YOU can honestly answer this question.
Basically do you like working on them or driving them?
I bought my 55 almost 10 years ago as a driving running car that needed a restoration. I then spent several thousand dollars buying everything I needed to do the restoration. A few days after the last box arrived, the son of the original owner contacted me and wanted to buy the car.
I told him I would sell it and all the parts to him for what I had invested. He needed to raise the money.
At that point I decided NOT to do the work on the car. It didn't make sense for me to do the work for him, I have better things to do with my time. So I just kept driving it and waiting and taking care of things to keep it going.
I still have the car and boxes and boxes of parts.
It may not be pretty, but it's still a joy to drive and gets attention everywhere it goes. Some call it a "patina" car. I call it in need of a restoration, but it's a survivor and still a whole lot of fun.
Some guys like working on them. I like driving them. It's your car, your money, and your situation. Do what YOU like. No sense doing it for the next guy. _________________ Mother Nature is a Mean Evil Bitch! |
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Snort Samba Member
Joined: April 02, 2005 Posts: 1957 Location: Seattle, WA
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Posted: Fri Aug 29, 2014 4:11 pm Post subject: |
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If I were in your situation the first thing I would do is put it together and drive it. The reason I say this is because you say you can't afford to buy the good metal parts to do the necessary repairs. There is nothing wrong with driving a car with a bent front apron or a rusty floor pan as long as your battery doesn't fall out. Patch it together to make it functional, budget your time and money to do the metal work properly and keep your numbers matching. |
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Kjell Roar Samba Member
Joined: December 08, 2008 Posts: 1325 Location: Norway
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Posted: Sun Aug 31, 2014 7:01 am Post subject: |
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Snort wrote: |
If I were in your situation the first thing I would do is put it together and drive it. The reason I say this is because you say you can't afford to buy the good metal parts to do the necessary repairs. There is nothing wrong with driving a car with a bent front apron or a rusty floor pan as long as your battery doesn't fall out. Patch it together to make it functional, budget your time and money to do the metal work properly and keep your numbers matching. |
I did that when I bought my oval 24 years ago. Took me a year and a half before I painted it. Did some work on it in the wintertime, and drove it like this through the summers:
_________________ I got a historic car, every scratch got a history...
My car, Aug. 4th, 1955 / an early 56: http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/album_page.php?pic_id=610438 |
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69vwcarl Samba Member
Joined: September 14, 2008 Posts: 138 Location: midland michigan
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Posted: Sun Nov 16, 2014 9:29 pm Post subject: |
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Thanks for the replies guys! I like that oval! Well after going back and fourth on it I actually got a little input from John Over at KCW. And Im going to try to do a quality restore on this bug it might take a while but i have my VW line up looking good for summer so i can take my time on this car. Here is a shot sent to me from a previous owner. I know the whole history of this car now for the most part.
So time to do some work. Started to take it apart
Got the body down to just about nothing. Ready to blast
Now the car has been dustless blasted and put in a good Epoxy primer. there is some hack body work done to it from the past.. almost more annoying then just dealing with rust. Now i will have to deal with poor work also.. oh well next step is to make a Tip Jig setup.
_________________ LOVE splits more than Jean-Claude Van Damme |
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kielbasa Samba Member
Joined: November 28, 2007 Posts: 1443 Location: Garbage Grove, CA
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Posted: Sun Nov 16, 2014 11:08 pm Post subject: |
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Did you dustless blast yourself or pay someone to come out? Looks good _________________ Gotta give my props to:
Wolfsburg Motorsports
Dubbers Toy Box
Jeff's VW Speed and Fab
4inbore.com
Kielbasa Industries |
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allsidius Samba Member
Joined: February 02, 2010 Posts: 1475 Location: Norway
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Posted: Mon Nov 17, 2014 2:12 am Post subject: |
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Glad to hear that you have decided to do a restauration on the car. I agree with the guys saying it's your car and do as you like, but I for one think a ribbed door oval is too nice a car to just leave with rotted floors and shitty paint. I am sure this restauration will be one for the books, looks like you have a decent garage and that means a lot. When I see pictures of cars with the interior full of bumpers, fenders etc. and the owner claims he is restoring, you know he will never finish until he wins the lottery and can afford a decent garage.
Good luck on getting another early oval on the road! _________________ 1973 1303S w sunroof Click to view image
1978 1303 convertible (sold)Click to view image
1966 1300 RIPClick to view image
Stop dead photo links! Post your photos to The Samba Gallery! |
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69vwcarl Samba Member
Joined: September 14, 2008 Posts: 138 Location: midland michigan
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Posted: Mon Nov 17, 2014 10:30 am Post subject: |
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kielbasa wrote: |
Did you dustless blast yourself or pay someone to come out? Looks good |
Thanks I did not do this myself I had a local guy do it for me. Benefit is you don't have to worry about warpage. Down side is it leaves some clumping wet media in a few odd spots. Which is a little annoying to get cleared out.
And yes allsidius I am lucky to have a nice size shop to work out of. It would be a lot more workable space if I quit filling it with volkswagens but nah... I'm no metal wizard like some people on here but I will try to accomplish a quality restoration! _________________ LOVE splits more than Jean-Claude Van Damme |
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kielbasa Samba Member
Joined: November 28, 2007 Posts: 1443 Location: Garbage Grove, CA
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Posted: Mon Nov 17, 2014 12:28 pm Post subject: |
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Allsidious. I disagree. My 55 is full of spare parts. Fenders rear clip wheels ect... and I'm working on it as often as I can.
just because I ran out of room for storage doesn't mean I don't have a decent garage. The size of the garage isn't what matters. It's the tools that counts. And I have more tools then I have space. And the collection just gets bigger. I can probably have a 100% original restored crotch cooler car with what I've spent in tools. But then I wouldn't be able to have built it
Carl, what did the blasting cost you if you don't mind me asking _________________ Gotta give my props to:
Wolfsburg Motorsports
Dubbers Toy Box
Jeff's VW Speed and Fab
4inbore.com
Kielbasa Industries |
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69vwcarl Samba Member
Joined: September 14, 2008 Posts: 138 Location: midland michigan
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Posted: Mon Nov 17, 2014 6:25 pm Post subject: |
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Blasting was crazy cheap... not sure if it was just my location or the fact that this guy's "season" was coming to an end?? Whatever. But the body no fenders no hood bla bla. Was only $200 I will have to hit a few areas myself when I need to underside. And I will have my extras blasted at some point. From what I can tell you should be able to do everything for around 1,000-1,500. No matter where you live just call around. Also a good blaster will charge you way less if you do any prep work. So if you take down the exterior panel's for instance with a "DA" or something it should really cut down the price. _________________ LOVE splits more than Jean-Claude Van Damme |
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kielbasa Samba Member
Joined: November 28, 2007 Posts: 1443 Location: Garbage Grove, CA
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Posted: Mon Nov 17, 2014 6:38 pm Post subject: |
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Out of my price range. My plan so far is to use a stripper disc as much as possible and buy my own soda blaster for the hard to reach places and what not. Haven't got to the soda blaster part yet. But the stripper discs work pretty damn well. Just time consuming. _________________ Gotta give my props to:
Wolfsburg Motorsports
Dubbers Toy Box
Jeff's VW Speed and Fab
4inbore.com
Kielbasa Industries |
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brad2thabone Samba Member
Joined: February 06, 2011 Posts: 111 Location: Midland MI
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69vwcarl Samba Member
Joined: September 14, 2008 Posts: 138 Location: midland michigan
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Posted: Wed Nov 19, 2014 11:24 pm Post subject: |
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brad2thabone wrote: |
Did you build the rotisserie yet??! |
Rotisserie or tiptisserie. Is getting close to done thanks for your help man. I decided being able to fully spin the bug body was not really necessary. I'm not sure why exactly I would need to do that. So tipping is fine for me. I used an old metal spool for cable or something. I found this at some old timers property and figured it would be good to use. So it was cut up and re-Purposed.
I thought the center square would be a great place to jack up the whole body evenly. BUT the weight distribution is rear heavy I didn't think about that till the first test. Oh well.
Next step is to make stops at a few different intervals including full turn on both sides also add removable caster wheel set up for when I need to jam this thing in a corner and do something productive.
I'll post things as they happen so it might be a bit of time between updates but I'd like to have this dollie done soon and do some bodywork. I'm going to make some brackets off the arms to bolt to the heater channel's to get me in the ballpark. But as I don't trust my ability to measure properly I will also use the pan to line up channels when the time comes. _________________ LOVE splits more than Jean-Claude Van Damme |
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allsidius Samba Member
Joined: February 02, 2010 Posts: 1475 Location: Norway
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Posted: Thu Nov 20, 2014 2:55 am Post subject: |
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kielbasa wrote: |
Allsidious. I disagree. My 55 is full of spare parts. Fenders rear clip wheels ect... and I'm working on it as often as I can.
just because I ran out of room for storage doesn't mean I don't have a decent garage. The size of the garage isn't what matters. |
What I meant is that you need a minimum of space, when working on the inside you cannot have all the fenders, the seats etc stacked in there. It is pretty typical for abandonded projects that they are stacked full of the parts the owner took off, and tucked away in a corner between and under all kinds of stuff, impossible to reach and work on. It is much easier to take parts off, than repairing them and fitting them correctly.
Then there are people that did fantastic restorations in a minimum of space, and all the more respect to them. I guess it is a question of how you work, if you need to do the fenders in between upholstering the seats or if you prefer to do one thing at the time. Personally I try to complete one thing at the time, and get the fenders back on the car before starting on the upholstery. _________________ 1973 1303S w sunroof Click to view image
1978 1303 convertible (sold)Click to view image
1966 1300 RIPClick to view image
Stop dead photo links! Post your photos to The Samba Gallery! |
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kielbasa Samba Member
Joined: November 28, 2007 Posts: 1443 Location: Garbage Grove, CA
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Posted: Thu Nov 20, 2014 10:02 am Post subject: |
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I think abandoned projects are a result of financial and or the persons drive to build it, not how much space one has. I had a 69 nova I had since high school. I tore that car apart so many times I got kinda tired of working on it and just lost my drive. When the time came to move I was forced to sell it since I didn't have room for a non op car.
If one really wants to build a car they can make it work. Hell I have a buddy who uses bedrooms in his house to store parts and he has several projects going on at once and they get finished. Just depends on how much you like working on them.
Op that's a neat little contraption you made there to rock the car like a cradle. When I get to the point of pulling body off I'll probably just end up making a wooden dolly and allow me to roll the pan underneath to get most out of my space. It's all looking good _________________ Gotta give my props to:
Wolfsburg Motorsports
Dubbers Toy Box
Jeff's VW Speed and Fab
4inbore.com
Kielbasa Industries |
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Abscate Samba Member
Joined: October 05, 2014 Posts: 22568 Location: NYC/Upstate/ROW
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Posted: Sat Nov 29, 2014 6:35 am Post subject: |
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Keep it as is and enjoy it. Personally I think the "matching numbers" thing is ridiculous and anyone who pays more for this is a fool. The number engine the factory chose for that car was merely a position of a part on a line, nothing more special than that.
However, the market speaks the financial truth, and I know I'm an outlier on this. I've enjoyed modest success in life, through a combination of education, hard work, opportunity, and luck. I think the community could do a better job of keeping this passion affordable by not pandering to parts grifters and the "collectibles mentality".
Another thought on engines...
A matching engine number on a 60 year old car is a crankshaft journal or connecting rod failure from an engine case meltdown, in which case the "advantage" is gone. _________________ .ssS! |
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vvdubman Samba Member
Joined: March 01, 2003 Posts: 75 Location: Carthage, NC
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Posted: Thu Jan 22, 2015 1:00 pm Post subject: |
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Glad to hear you made a decision for a restore. I will take my oval down to bare metal one day....but for now, she is my daily! |
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