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logank1983 Samba Member
Joined: March 29, 2011 Posts: 18 Location: Idaho
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Posted: Sun Aug 31, 2014 9:22 pm Post subject: Are Buggys Safe? |
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Hi guys.
I have driven a 74 Thing for 15 years as my daily driver and it has always been my pride and joy. My wife and I particularly love putting the top down and driving through the mountains and forest roads. 6 Months ago my wife had a baby girl and since that moment suddenly I am acutely aware of my own mortality, as well as that of everyone I love. I hate to even type it, but I am considering parting with my beloved Thing.
But IF I do then I would need a suitable vehicle to fill the void. Something that equally turns heads and brings smiles, and doesn't obstruct the view of natures wonders with a pesky roof.
So I am wondering if a Fibreglass buggy with a roll bar is safe? What specifically would be the concerns if not? I would be getting a four seater. This wouldn't be for off road use, at worst the occasional dirt road.
I am also considering something like a 60's convertible Bronco or FJ Land Cruiser, I know that's not the group specialty but if you have any knowledge of how a buggy's safety would compare I'd love to hear it. |
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BL3Manx Samba Member
Joined: August 29, 2006 Posts: 6767 Location: Northern California
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Posted: Sun Aug 31, 2014 9:58 pm Post subject: |
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If you don't think a Thing with the variety of roll cages available is safe enough, no you probably wouldn't want a buggy.
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Crankey Samba Member
Joined: July 11, 2004 Posts: 2652
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Posted: Mon Sep 01, 2014 12:15 am Post subject: |
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the safety is mostly in your own driving habits.
I can't possibly see how a fiberglass body bolted to a pan could be safer than the Thing's metal body bolted to a pan. add a roll cage and it'll be better somewhat. but no better or worse than an old Bronco.
just imagine what will happen in an accident with a metal shell car with no roof, no interior padding and minimal restraints. you bash your flailing body agents raw metal doors and and roll bars unless or until your flung out of the vehicle. old vehicles are not 'safe' by today's standards. and most American car manufacturers strongly overestimate passenger survival in their cars. European cars do much better overall as well as Japanese. you want safe ? buy a Mercedes SUV with a sunroof. otherwise, drive carefully. pay attention to the road and other drivers behavior and not so much the trees.
or maybe buy a sunroof vanagon. they have a higher survivability relative to predicted. still not safe by todays technology.
for 6 years my only car was a speedster kit car, I never touched anything with it and nobody ever touched my car either. same with my vanagon that I've been daily driving since 05. my boss however is an idiot and smashed up his bran new Subaru forester in the first 3 months of ownership. and my co worker got herself t-boned in her near new Acura. so I'd say the safety is mostly with the driver, the choice of driving route and overall attentiveness to the road and other drivers.
for instance, some people hate to wait for a lighted intersection, so they cross 4 lane roads at stop signs. or they pull illegal U turns. I prefer to chill out and use lighted intersections and also intersections with light regulated turn lanes. I'm just not in a rush. you only ever get somewhere faster if you leave earlier, not by driving faster on the way. |
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brettsvw Samba Member
Joined: November 22, 2007 Posts: 2145 Location: Florida
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Q-Dog Samba Member
Joined: April 05, 2010 Posts: 8687 Location: Sunset, Louisiana
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Posted: Mon Sep 01, 2014 4:06 am Post subject: |
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If you want safe get a modern car. I consider my buggy is about as safe as a motorcycle and drive it accordingly.
My feeling is a Thing with the factory style roll bar would be safer than a fiberglass buggy with the single "show bar" and the Thing has a lot more room inside than just about any fiberglass buggy you can find.
Of course, You can build a custom roll cage for either car if that makes you feel safer. How far do you go with that? _________________ Brian
'69 Dune Buggy
'69 Beetle Convertible
'70 Beetle |
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lil-jinx Samba Member
Joined: August 14, 2013 Posts: 1109 Location: New Brunswick,Canada
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Posted: Mon Sep 01, 2014 5:40 am Post subject: |
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Keep the thing,do the things you love to do,forget the risk,have fun.but use due caution. |
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bigfatloser Samba Member
Joined: July 27, 2014 Posts: 94 Location: High Desert Calif
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Posted: Mon Sep 01, 2014 5:47 am Post subject: |
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I think a buggy is only slightly more dangerous than a factory produced convertible. Only because of the mass of a "conventional" vehicle. _________________ DMZFAB.COM |
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Glenn Mr. 010
Joined: December 25, 2001 Posts: 76760 Location: Sneaking up behind you
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Posted: Mon Sep 01, 2014 5:52 am Post subject: |
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Fiberglass dune buggy vs massive SUV..... guess who losses. _________________ Glenn
74 Beetle Specs | 74 Beetle Restoration | 2180cc Engine
"You may not get what you pay for, but you always pay for what you get"
Member #1009
#BlueSquare |
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VWCOOL Samba Member
Joined: June 02, 2006 Posts: 1821 Location: Down under
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Posted: Mon Sep 01, 2014 6:04 am Post subject: |
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...No. |
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joescoolcustoms Samba Member
Joined: August 08, 2006 Posts: 9054 Location: West By God Virginia
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Posted: Mon Sep 01, 2014 6:18 am Post subject: |
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I currently have two Things, '73 and '74. I have built several buggy's, with and without full cages, even tube chassis.
A buggy is not safer than a Thing. IMO, they can be made as safe as a Thing.
If you are looking for safety in a vehicle, you need crumple zones, air bags, high tech seat belts, bladder style fuel cells and so forth. A modern engineered vehicle. _________________ Bad News Racing 2018 NORRA 1000 3rd in Class
Best Day Ever Racing 2022 NORRA 1000 2nd in Class and first All Female team to complete the race
Everyone is gifted. Some just do not open the package.
Looks like it was painted with a live chicken,polished with a brick and buffed with a pine cone |
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slalombuggy Samba Member
Joined: July 17, 2010 Posts: 9131 Location: Canada
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Posted: Mon Sep 01, 2014 7:26 am Post subject: |
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When driving mine I assume everyone is out to get me and are complete morons. 20 years no close calls.
brad |
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Dale M. Samba Member
Joined: April 12, 2006 Posts: 20365 Location: Just a tiny bit west of Yosemite Valley
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Posted: Mon Sep 01, 2014 7:38 am Post subject: |
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IF you are asking if a buggy is safe for family of three... The answer is NO.... There is technically no rear seating in a shortened pan buggy.... The area behind seats is technically a package tray (some will argue that point but...) and I do not consider it a place for little ones, its ok for groceries or luggage, but not people...
I would stay with the "Thing", and add some over head protection (roll bar) and maybe tinker with a few extra ponies out of engine and enjoy life and new little one....
The safe alternative to the "Thing" would be the 6000 pound SUV....
Dale _________________ “Fear The Government That Wants To Take Your Guns" - Thomas Jefferson.
"Kellison Sand Piper Roadster" For Street & Show.
"Joe Pody Sandrover" Buggy with 2180 for Autocross (Sold)
============================================================
All suggestions and advice are purely my own opinion. You are free to ignore them if you wish ... |
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VOLKSWAGNUT Fastest VW Belt Changer
Joined: October 14, 2007 Posts: 11053 Location: Flippin' a Belt........ .... Off-n-On ... NC USA
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Posted: Mon Sep 01, 2014 8:14 am Post subject: |
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The only thing that makes these any safer than a motorcycle.. is the fact they can be spotted easier on the road..
That is if somebody looks up from their phone...
(should be a law)
If you think a fiberglass tub bolted to sheet metal floor is safe.. sorry to be blunt you are certainly dreaming.
They can be made safer, adding cages, braces etc..... but in reality... they are going to loose the battle in just about every scenario in an accident.
Family = means more than 2.. so think 4 seats.. so IMO that rules out a short Buggy with a roll bar/cage.
I built a back seat area in my buggy at first... to soon realize... with a roll bar.. its a teeth smasher and quick ejection area.
The Thing with a roll cage is a much better option...
If you want safe... stay away from anything old...
By the way... a Buggy with a roll bar alone... is nicknamed the mouse trap.
You have a better chance surviving not being trapped and being thrown out..
Nuff said..
_________________ aka Ken {o\!/o}
Its your vehicle- stop askin' for approval-do what YOU like for cryin' out loud
Better to roll em' how you want and wear em' out-than lettin' em' rot out
Its about the going not the showing
Rebuilt to drive not decorate
WANTED: Local Eatin' Joints, Triple D for TheSamba contributions here http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=570510
Search "VOLKSWAGNUT" on YouTube since you cant watch a "certain" BELT change video round here
Usually and often edited |
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Glenn Mr. 010
Joined: December 25, 2001 Posts: 76760 Location: Sneaking up behind you
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Posted: Mon Sep 01, 2014 8:46 am Post subject: |
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I bet that roll bar was bolted to the fiberglass body and not welded to the floor.
Looks cool, but absolutely worthless in a crash. _________________ Glenn
74 Beetle Specs | 74 Beetle Restoration | 2180cc Engine
"You may not get what you pay for, but you always pay for what you get"
Member #1009
#BlueSquare |
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andk5591 Samba Member
Joined: August 29, 2005 Posts: 16754 Location: State College, PA
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Posted: Mon Sep 01, 2014 9:04 am Post subject: |
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Seriously if you are in that mode these days - just sell the Thing. I dont care if its a buggy, sedan or Thing - there is no comparison to the saftey aspects of a modern car.
As mentioned - you have to approach driving an ACVW or any compcact older car for that matter simply as riding a 4 wheel motorcycle. You have about as much protection. _________________ D-Dubya Manx clone - 63 Short pan,1914.
Rosie 65 bug - My mostly stock daily driver.
Woodie 69 VW woodie (Hot VWs 7/12).
"John's car" 64 VW woodie - The first ever
Maxine 61 Cal-look bug - Cindy's daily driver.
Max - 73 standard Beetle hearse project - For sale
66 bug project - Real patina & Suby conversion
There's more, but not keeping them... |
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HeidelbergJohn4.0 Samba Member
Joined: March 01, 2004 Posts: 1199 Location: Havre de Grace, MD
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Posted: Mon Sep 01, 2014 9:39 am Post subject: |
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bigfatloser wrote: |
I think a buggy is only slightly more dangerous than a factory produced convertible. Only because of the mass of a "conventional" vehicle. |
Oh come on, My Audi A4 passes every crash test including roll over tests with hte reinforced windshield and active roll ovewr hoops. Maybe if you are talking about a FG buggy WITH a full roll cage, but no way Am I driving down the road with an infant in a FG buggy. Zero side impact protection, virtually zero rear impact protection....
Definitely a FG buggy is in the realm of a motorcycle. _________________ 71 LWB Manx style dunebuggy
71 Beetle
71 Volksrod
Machette Speedster
2012 Passat TDI SE (sadly sitting in a buyback parking lot somewhere waiting for it's heart to be ripped out.) |
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Jerry39218 Samba Member
Joined: June 23, 2014 Posts: 182 Location: Brandon, MS
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Posted: Mon Sep 01, 2014 9:49 am Post subject: |
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4 wheel motorcycle.
A wreck at 60mph... you're done.
I will say this... you are very much more aware of your surroundings while driving one
I am budgeting for 6pt cage with padding and side bars and safety harness...but even then I would not say get a buggy for safety.
You get one for fun
And when it comes to vehicles... fun isn't always "safe"
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logank1983 Samba Member
Joined: March 29, 2011 Posts: 18 Location: Idaho
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Posted: Mon Sep 01, 2014 10:17 am Post subject: |
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Thanks everybody. I guess Buggy is not the way to go. |
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bgs Samba Member
Joined: May 08, 2005 Posts: 417 Location: SoCal
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Posted: Mon Sep 01, 2014 12:20 pm Post subject: |
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I believe the German Army during the WWII campaigns
found the orig Thing or Type 82's pretty stout for their daily
doings..Hard to beat a ride that was thown smack-dab
in the middle of a very serious war, some which are
still around today.
I wish I had such a hard decision to make regarding
a Thing. It'd be a keeper, that's all. _________________ Hmm, ruff. |
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BL3Manx Samba Member
Joined: August 29, 2006 Posts: 6767 Location: Northern California
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Posted: Mon Sep 01, 2014 12:48 pm Post subject: |
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Glenn wrote: |
I bet that roll bar was bolted to the fiberglass body and not welded to the floor Looks cool, but absolutely worthless in a crash. |
Depends on the fiberglass structure and how the rollbar is attached. On a thin body with an incorrect glass to resin ratio and less that full saturation, yes absolutely. On a professionally laid up body of adequate thickness and on which loads are designed to be carried in tension or compression rather than sheer, the fiberglass has a higher strength to weight than steel. |
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