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Installing A Fresh Air Shut Off Flap
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djkeev
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PostPosted: Thu Nov 20, 2014 3:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ok,

The unit is reassembled. I used the recommended clips, VW Part #321-819-059, eleven are required.

As I reassembled I tested the flap operation watching for binding. I lubricated the pivot points, all were good except for the Floor Heat Flaps.

The operating cable for these flaps was severely bent at the control levers and had been for quite some time based upon the deep gouges in the lever body from the cable end dragging across the metal.

I don't know why but the outer sides of the heater flap pivots was distorted, as if it was melted?!?

I removed the flaps.... The ONLY flaps that are easily removed! (Depress the lock tab on the retaining tabs at each pivot point)

I used my heat gun and reshaped the plastic back into the general shape it should be.

I now had some severe binding to fix. The flaps were rubbing on the sides and catching on any irregularities.

A washer at one end fixed that one point but others required filing off almost an 1/8" of flap!

The blue tape is where the plastic was Misformed, the Green tape is where I had to file the heat flaps.
Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.




All said and done, it now pivots effortlessly! Smile

Now, here the cables are reinstalled. The control unit is adjusted, the cables completely lubricated inside........ SWEET!!!

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.



Now to install it for a test fit, I need to determine the new air flap operation interface and install the cabin air check valve on the 2" black pipe that I added onto the top.

Sadly, one of these heater flap retainers is missing...... It works fine without it but it would be nice to locate one........
Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


Dave
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djkeev
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PostPosted: Sat Nov 22, 2014 2:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

It's been a busy Saturday but I finally found a bit of Van Time........ Wink

Having the Air Box reassembled, I carried it out to the Van and set it in place.
By doing this I Was able to determine the length of the new Fresh Air Flap operating cable.

I am using the cable that the factory supplied to open and close the rear fresh air flap to operate the new fresh air flap..... (Bottom Lever).

I was also able to determine the length of the 2" ABS Cabin Air Recirculation Pipe I installed onto the Air Box.

I brought the unit back to the warm garage......... And RAN OUT OF PROPANE!!!! Rolling Eyes

Still, it's out of the wind and the garage is 54* so not bad. I do have a small electric space heater pointed at me as well. It cannot warm the garage but it does warm my aging bones!

Anyway, cable and air pipe cut off, the two cables need to be connected........
Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


What to use??!!?........ I've boxes containing 50 years of misc car crap....... Let's take a look............ Nah...... I've got my Dads stuff as well...... I'm thinking 80 years of accumulated crap!.........
Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


Hmmmmmmm........ A cable clamp........ If I replace the screw with an allen set screw on both sides I can use one screw as an anvil and tighten the 2nd against it, squeezing the operating cables tightly but NOT deforming them.....
Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


So, using some Gorilla tape, I Temporarily taped the two cable housings together.
I was then able to determine the cable operating lengths and clamp them firmly together......... BEAUTIFUL!!!!! ..........
I purposely left the rear fresh air flap cable unmolested, I enlarged the hole to get the 90* crook through....... You never know...... Don't go burning bridges behind you!..........
Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


Next was a permanent cable housing clamp. I used the same 90* angle bracket that I used inside to hold the cable housing in place but I cut it in half so I had two flat plates.
Using 10-32 screws and nuts I securely clamped the two cable together.......
Photo shows the cabin air check valve as well. I stepped it down so that I can brace it from vibrating under the dash.........
Before clamp......
Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


After Clamp.........
Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


Now to go test fit this as a complete unit.

I need to reinstall the wiper mechanism and the washer nozzles before I bolt it into place........

Dave
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Last edited by djkeev on Sat Nov 22, 2014 3:08 pm; edited 1 time in total
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djkeev
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PostPosted: Sat Nov 22, 2014 2:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Now I know, most of you will look at the photo and say "Big Deal....... A Heater Box!"

I however look at the photo and think "YES!!!!! I did it! A fresh air shut off flap and cabin air recirculation!!!"

I'm a happy boy! Wink

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


Now to put the wiper system back in...... Clean the electrical ground trees, bolt the air box in and reinstall the dash!!
It's like Christmas!........... I'm so excited!!!

Sadly, Van wise, nothing against the kids............. Off to Babysit the Grandchildren all day tomorrow..........

Taking out a car full of gifts early........ Plus two used Plasma Cars cars for instant gratification! .........
Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


Dave
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twowings
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PostPosted: Sat Nov 22, 2014 3:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

You've got very admirable fab skills! I've enjoyed following this thru to completion...looking forward to the road test results....
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dobryan
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PostPosted: Sat Nov 22, 2014 4:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Dave,

I'm real anxious to hear about the results. This is something I've wanted for quite a while. Awesome documentation... Very Happy
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djkeev
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PostPosted: Sat Nov 22, 2014 4:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

dobryan wrote:
Dave,
..................Awesome documentation... Very Happy


Yeah......... That's why I've got 11,000 posts!
Too much documentation! Shocked

Dave
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Zeitgeist 13
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PostPosted: Sat Nov 22, 2014 5:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

It's not complete until you add a tube sock over the ABS air recirculation tube
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Forthwithtx
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PostPosted: Wed Jun 24, 2015 9:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'm curious as to how this worked out, Dave. Got an update?
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CurtisS
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PostPosted: Thu Jun 25, 2015 6:41 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yes. I love to hear about how all of your worked out.

Cheers!
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alaskadan
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PostPosted: Wed Aug 26, 2015 1:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

So whats up? Got a heater box on the bench and looking to do something too. How's it working?
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Paulbeard
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PostPosted: Wed Aug 26, 2015 2:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

djkeev wrote:

My conclusion on this Heater/Fresh Air system is quite simply that it Sucks!
----------------------







Can I get an "amen?"

I need to re-read this as I just had my "ventilation" box out and could have used some of these ideas. I'm just glad I live in a moderate climate…

Moving the levers to the other side of the box would help by shortening the cable runs/reducing the complexity.

Tempted to put a shop vac as a blower on the front grille to see how the system works without having to drive it. Also wondering if I should hunt up a spare heater box to tinker with.
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alaskadan
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PostPosted: Wed Aug 26, 2015 5:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

So if i make some flaps that i can manually close right at the point where the heater box contacts the body while another flap opens for recirc air would the inner flaps that just hang there be needed anymore? After thinking about it more they are likely needed when the blower is turned on?

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PostPosted: Wed Aug 26, 2015 6:03 pm    Post subject: My solution: not for everyone Reply with quote

Well, the heater control valve I ordered arrived and that was the work of ten minutes to install. Not able to control it from the dash panel as the cable isn't long enough. I ended up cutting it as low as I could in the doghouse since I couldn't see any other way of getting it. Then I couldn't use it anyway. Rolling Eyes

I tested the new blower fan and I couldn't feel any air to speak off, not for the amount of noise it was making. I put a shop vac in the fresh air opening and turned it on. Nothing coming out of the vents.

So I got under the dash and manipulated the various levers by hand and found that the cables were binding such that the cable ends were working loose from the lever at the dash or at the flap lever. It became apparent that friction fittings fail after a remove and replace cycle or two. The cables were slipping out of the correct location or just not getting the job done. The flaps could be actuated by hand. So I disconnected all of the cables. The heat control was already done. The footwell vents can stay closed. All that remained was the "defrost" lever and whatever the bottom one is supposed to do.

The "defrost" setting I can just leave on full time as all it does is direct air, heated or not, to the windshield. I suspect that it will not work all that anyway as the vents are too far from the windshield for the blower. I guess Germany must never see any frost, based on these design decisions. Rolling Eyes

My needs are simple: fresh air, heated or left at ambient temperature.

If I can get a spare heater box to experiment with, it might be worth trying to salvage the concept of this. But I'll live with what I have for now. There are other things that offer a bigger payoff that whatever those levers are supposed to do.
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dhaavers
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PostPosted: Wed Aug 26, 2015 6:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

^^^ Might your blower be wired backwards...??? Embarassed

I'd describe a properly functioning blower on defrost as "just-shy-of-hurricane" force...

(Apologies to Katrina survivors...)
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Wildthings
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PostPosted: Wed Aug 26, 2015 6:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

You want the bottom lever moved all the way to the right for maximum airflow out of the other vents. The bottom lever shuttles air to the back vents when in the open (to the left position) and by the time the air reaches there it will be at approximately the temperature of the body shell. Very hot in the summer and very cold in the winter.

The side vents on the dash have their own built in control flaps that don't always work all that well. There is an old thread where I showed my solution for this, the fix has worked well for quite a few years at this point.

Depending on the model year these side dash vents will have either ambient air or heated air.
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PostPosted: Wed Aug 26, 2015 6:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

dhaavers wrote:
^^^ Might your blower be wired backwards...??? Embarassed

I'd describe a properly functioning blower on defrost as "just-shy-of-hurricane" force...

(Apologies to Katrina survivors...)


The thought had crossed my mind. I can feel air moving now that I have the vents sorted so it seems to be functioning properly. Wiring this one was simply connecting two spade connectors to the plug that was already there.
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PostPosted: Wed Aug 26, 2015 7:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

djkeev wrote:
Ok,

The unit is reassembled. I used the recommended clips, VW Part #321-819-059, eleven are required.


I just drilled through the tabs and ziptied it all together. There were no clips on the original when I pulled it. I did have to cut the box apart where the larger tabs had been melted together with some solvent: they were almost seamless.

djkeev wrote:

Sadly, one of these heater flap retainers is missing...... It works fine without it but it would be nice to locate one........
Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


Both of these fell out of the passenger vent on mine today: I just contact-cemented them back in place. Since they won't be under any stress, they should stay in place now. Without both of them, I suspect you'll lose the other one as the control rod gets used.
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Formerly -> Steward of a 73 Super Beetle (Beater) and 67 Beetle 1300 (Little Max) both names by POs

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djkeev
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PostPosted: Wed Aug 26, 2015 7:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

FYI.....

Modified heater box?

A big thumbs up!
Works Grrrrrrrreat!!!! 👍

Dave
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Paulbeard
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PostPosted: Wed Aug 26, 2015 9:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

djkeev wrote:
FYI.....

Modified heater box?


Excellent news…installed already?
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djkeev
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 16, 2015 4:22 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

An update.....

Real World use report on my fresh air flap modification......

yes, Yes, YES!!!!!!

It worked WONDERFULLY!!!!

As desired......... I Had plentiful ram fresh air, I Had fan forced fresh air, I had NO fresh air and recirculated the cabin air.

Possibly the best feature was when using heat, by manipulating the control levers I could either cook myself out of the Van or just have the faintest whisper of heat to remove an evenings chill.

Very very happy with the results.

Dave
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Ghia
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=392473

Vanagon
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?p=6315537#6315537

Beetle
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