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1911tex
Samba Member
Joined: June 14, 2014
Posts: 63
Location: Central Texas
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 Posted: Tue Sep 02, 2014 8:38 am Post subject: Oil Temperature |
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| It is bumping 100 in central Texas now and my oil temp seems to hover around 210-212 degrees....is that normal??? In cooler 60-70 degree weather it averages 170 degrees. |
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FV195
Samba Member
Joined: February 19, 2005
Posts: 480
Location: carlisile, pa
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| Posted: Tue Sep 02, 2014 9:00 am Post subject: |
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| those temps are fine, over 225 is when you have to worry, shut it down at 250. things run hot, esp. with the top down |
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1911tex
Samba Member
Joined: June 14, 2014
Posts: 63
Location: Central Texas
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| Posted: Wed Sep 03, 2014 5:48 am Post subject: |
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| FV195:...Thanks ! |
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EverettB 
Administrator
Joined: April 11, 2000
Posts: 69809
Location: Phoenix Metro
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| Posted: Wed Sep 03, 2014 9:19 am Post subject: Re: Oil Temperature |
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| 1911tex wrote: |
| It is bumping 100 in central Texas now and my oil temp seems to hover around 210-212 degrees....is that normal??? In cooler 60-70 degree weather it averages 170 degrees. |
170 is too low too... if you don't have a thermostat and flaps on your engine I would add those.
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Zylinderkopf
Samba Member
Joined: September 09, 2012
Posts: 679
Location: SE Oklahoma
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| Posted: Wed Sep 03, 2014 8:27 pm Post subject: |
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| FV195 wrote: |
| things run hot, esp. with the top down |
I have observed this as well, but why does a Thing run hotter with the top down?
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citroen
Samba Member
Joined: February 28, 2010
Posts: 1578
Location: louisville ky
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| Posted: Wed Sep 03, 2014 8:48 pm Post subject: |
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| Zylinderkopf wrote: |
| FV195 wrote: |
| things run hot, esp. with the top down |
I have observed this as well, but why does a Thing run hotter with the top down? |
for one thing it changes the way the air gets to the engine and it makes the thing a little bit less streamline if that is possible. |
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FV195
Samba Member
Joined: February 19, 2005
Posts: 480
Location: carlisile, pa
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| Posted: Thu Sep 04, 2014 5:23 am Post subject: |
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| I have always heard its the great areo of the thing that makes them run hotter than most |
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strelnik
Samba Member
Joined: October 01, 2010
Posts: 352
Location: Michigan
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| Posted: Thu Sep 04, 2014 5:24 am Post subject: |
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| citroen wrote: |
| Zylinderkopf wrote: |
| FV195 wrote: |
| things run hot, esp. with the top down |
I have observed this as well, but why does a Thing run hotter with the top down? |
for one thing it changes the way the air gets to the engine and it makes the thing a little bit less streamline if that is possible. |
I found this text on the Hot Rod magazine website. The info about temperatures jives with what oil engineers have told me:
" For a dual-purpose car, engine oil needs to be at least 220 degrees F to burn off all the deposits and accumulated water vapor. For every pound of fuel burned in an engine, the combustion process also generates a pound of water! If engine sump temperatures rarely exceed 212 degrees (water’s boiling point), the water will mix with sulfur (another combustion by-product) and create acids that can eventually damage bearings.
As for ultimate power potential, the general consensus among most racers is that hot oil and cool water make more power in most engines. Cold engine oil causes excessive frictional drag on the bearings and cylinder walls. A quality conventional motor oil will tolerate oil sump temperatures of up to 250 degrees, but starts breaking down over 275 degrees. The traditional approach is to try to hold oil temperatures between 230 and 260 degrees. Even on a short-duration, drag-only combo where oil is frequently changed, I would not want to routinely see under-200-degree oil temps.
A full-synthetic oil will withstand sump temperatures in excess of 300 degrees, and for hard-core professional racing, some oval-track race teams are experimenting with ultra-thin, specially formulated, race-only synthetics operating at 350 degrees or even higher.
Also remember that a high-end engine is built as a total combination. Piston-to-wall clearances, piston ring end-gaps, and bearing clearances are specifically tailored to match the engine oil’s characteristics and intended operating temperature. "
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1911tex
Samba Member
Joined: June 14, 2014
Posts: 63
Location: Central Texas
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| Posted: Thu Sep 04, 2014 5:48 am Post subject: |
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| This is terrific information.....more than I ever expected...thanks to all of you! |
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Ron Domeck
Samba Member
Joined: August 05, 2007
Posts: 1466
Location: louisville Ky
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| Posted: Thu Sep 04, 2014 6:14 am Post subject: |
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| We had a Thing drive a few years ago and compared temps by the temp guages that had them and they ran about 10 degrees hotter with the top down. Maybe the parachute effect with the top hanging on the back instead of the air flow up over and down the back? Did notice that my surrey top Thing ran the hottest of 20 cars checked with a temp gun on a morning drive at Kubel Treffen KY. The car was just restored at that time and not broke in. I built the car 6 years ago and it has 340 miles now, think its time to check again? |
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mondshine
Samba Member
Joined: October 27, 2006
Posts: 2769
Location: The World's Motor Capital
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| Posted: Thu Sep 04, 2014 8:34 am Post subject: |
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As we know, Oil Temp is directly related to RPM, where CHT is directly related to load.
I have found that top down motoring (at freeway speeds) has a greater effect on CHT than on Oil Temp; though it does increase both.
I surmise that the top down difference is additional load due to the degraded aerodynamics of an open bucket moving down the road at high speed.
Remember, the owner's manual lists 68 MPH as the maximum cruising speed. In stock form, both Things I've owned were at ~230 OT, and ~375 CHT when driven at 70 for an hour or so. That's as hot as you'd ever want to be.
On my own car, I fixed it with an aux oil cooler, and and a fresh air duct to the fan inlet. Now, I can drive on the freeway e.g. from Branson to Detroit in a single stretch without overheating (if my old body can stand it)  .
Good luck, Mondshine |
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strelnik
Samba Member
Joined: October 01, 2010
Posts: 352
Location: Michigan
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| Posted: Fri Sep 05, 2014 6:24 am Post subject: |
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| mondshine wrote: |
As we know, Oil Temp is directly related to RPM, where CHT is directly related to load.
I have found that top down motoring (at freeway speeds) has a greater effect on CHT than on Oil Temp; though it does increase both.
I surmise that the top down difference is additional load due to the degraded aerodynamics of an open bucket moving down the road at high speed.
Remember, the owner's manual lists 68 MPH as the maximum cruising speed. In stock form, both Things I've owned were at ~230 OT, and ~375 CHT when driven at 70 for an hour or so. That's as hot as you'd ever want to be.
On my own car, I fixed it with an aux oil cooler, and and a fresh air duct to the fan inlet. Now, I can drive on the freeway e.g. from Branson to Detroit in a single stretch without overheating (if my old body can stand it) .
Good luck, Mondshine |
Hello Mondshine,
What type of aux oil cooler did you use?
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mondshine
Samba Member
Joined: October 27, 2006
Posts: 2769
Location: The World's Motor Capital
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| Posted: Fri Sep 05, 2014 8:15 am Post subject: |
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Strelnik-
I can't remember the brand (it's been many years), but it's about 12" x 12", plate type, made in Canada. The 12V fan switches on at 200*.
It is mounted above the transaxle like this:
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strelnik
Samba Member
Joined: October 01, 2010
Posts: 352
Location: Michigan
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| Posted: Fri Sep 05, 2014 9:54 am Post subject: |
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| mondshine wrote: |
Strelnik-
I can't remember the brand (it's been many years), but it's about 12" x 12", plate type, made in Canada. The 12V fan switches on at 200*.
It is mounted above the transaxle like this:
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Thanks for the info and the drawing. Since I have discovered that we apparently lived fairly close to one another, I may try to contact you
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mondshine
Samba Member
Joined: October 27, 2006
Posts: 2769
Location: The World's Motor Capital
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| Posted: Fri Sep 05, 2014 1:08 pm Post subject: |
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Strelnik-
I plan to attend the Toledo show on 21 Sep. (unless it's pouring down rain).
Maybe we can meet there; me and my car look like this:
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VWCOOL
Samba Member
Joined: June 02, 2006
Posts: 1821
Location: Down under
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| Posted: Fri Sep 05, 2014 4:10 pm Post subject: |
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| 200 is not even properly warmed up... |
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Ron Domeck
Samba Member
Joined: August 05, 2007
Posts: 1466
Location: louisville Ky
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| Posted: Fri Sep 05, 2014 4:53 pm Post subject: |
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| Why doe's the sticker on the fan shroud say "Engine oil temp 122-158 F" ? |
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kubelmann
Samba Member
Joined: April 13, 2003
Posts: 3266
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| Posted: Fri Sep 05, 2014 6:48 pm Post subject: |
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| Sertrab oil coolers are very good and have been used with success by VW folks for decades... |
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VWCOOL
Samba Member
Joined: June 02, 2006
Posts: 1821
Location: Down under
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| Posted: Fri Sep 05, 2014 10:52 pm Post subject: |
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| Ron Domeck wrote: |
| Why doe's the sticker on the fan shroud say "Engine oil temp 122-158 F" ? |
Noo idea of what sticker that is - but if my pie 'n sauce was that cold, I'd take it back |
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kubelmann
Samba Member
Joined: April 13, 2003
Posts: 3266
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| Posted: Sat Sep 06, 2014 6:15 am Post subject: |
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Hey!!!! What do ALL stickers say?
”... and on the other side, It says, “nuthin"...
That the side that was made for you and me...."
How about the sticker that warns about taking off the doors and driving. Whilst driving Der Thang, please don’t roll the windows down on the side air bag assembly you might cause the emergency blinkers to flash (for the first time since Mar 13, 1987... Logic only works if you are ― Jean-Jacques Rousseau or Spock... I say add a large dose of common sense, with two hands on the steering wheel and one foot (or two feet momentarily) on the pedals... check the oil before driving... |
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