Reduction Gear Box - Bearings

[dma1260]

Hello to my VW Buds !

I finally got my worn RGB bearings out of my '59 Panel Bus. I had to make a puller (to buy a new one was over 400.00 bucks !) forget that . . I made one taking a cue from John Muir's book . . worked !

So now my question is "HOW DO I GET THE NEW ONES BACK IN" was very TOUGH to get them out (tight) but now I'm looking at getting new ones in and they are just as tight to go back . . and I don't want to destroy the new ones by wacking them with a hammer and screwing them up.

Is there a tool to press them in ? I rented a kit from local auto parts store:

http://www.oreillyauto.com/site/c/detail/PFM0/W897...driver+set

But it seems like I really have to wack these bearings to get them to go in and they are not going in completely straight. Is there a press (opposite of what I used to get them out) that I can use a wrench to get them back in ? Does heating up the hosing help with getting them in ? any and all suggestions are welcome !

Thanks !

[dma1260]

[klcarrie]

H-4 page 5 of the 1950-1962 Type 2 Bently manual specifies you use the drifts below accordingly:

VW 240 A
Vw 243 and
Vw244b

Alternatively, grind the races of the old bearings and use them as drifts.
_________________
Pritchin'
--
Currently looking for:

- Bay Bus Pinion Nut Socket

- 64-67 big nut (rear) drums and brake parts, 46mm axle nuts (Big Nuts)

--
'55 Wolfburg Pannel Project
'55 Wolfsburg SC Project
'71 Westy

[Eric&Barb]

Note the hole in the upper axle has wrinkles in it??

You can use a bolt/washer/large socket to press the bearings into place easily.

Also you can polish the axles so the bearings are not a press on fit. Especially any nicks or scratches need to be knocked down.
_________________
In Stereo, Where Available!

[dma1260]

Wrinkels ?! I'm sorry what does that mean ? Is there something
wrong with the hole ? Are you taking about the hole in the axel /
shaft in picture I posted ?!

Polish - do you mean to smooth out the bearing reses holes in
housing ?

I'm going to reverse my puller & use the case housing bolts
as my anchors to press the bearing back into the hole.

I have a 36mm socket to put over axle shaft and pound the 6306
bearing into that hole - should work.

Can I heat up housing with torch to expand and than wack the bearing
in ? or and can I coat the hole with lube to help the bearing into place.

THX !

[klcarrie]

Notice the pictures showing the shaft shows the hole at the end of the shaft is threaded (eg. wrinkles).

Use that hole to thread a bolt with a nut, washer and large socket. Press in the 6306 by turning the nut down on the washer and socket.

polish the AXLE to deburr it prior to pressing in the bearing.

You can also score the seating surface of the RGB housing to ensure that the bearing outer race does not spin.

Do not whack anything into the housing; it is brittle and may break.
_________________
Pritchin'
--
Currently looking for:

- Bay Bus Pinion Nut Socket

- 64-67 big nut (rear) drums and brake parts, 46mm axle nuts (Big Nuts)

--
'55 Wolfburg Pannel Project
'55 Wolfsburg SC Project
'71 Westy

[dschup]

Freeze the bearing overnight and use some heat on the housing. It may help get the bearing started enough to go in straight.

Who knows, the bearing may slide right in. heat it up a little afterwards to get rid of any condensation.

[Riff Raff]

I had one bearing I had to cut off.
It was on so tight my SKF puller popped out of the race.
The culprit was the axle, the major diameter of the axle was a couple microns too large, as any other bearing I tried was also stupid tight.
I worked the axle with emory cloth until the bearing would push on with light taps.

I also fashioned a 240a out of a short length of chain link fence post.
It is just the right diameter to contact the inner race.
Cut it off square with a proper cut off saw and weld a plug in the opposite end for stability and I have a very useful $5 tool.

The remainder of the fence post makes a great snipe for loosening rear axle nuts, etc.
_________________
The greatest obstacle to discovery is not ignorance, but the illusion of knowledge
- Daniel Boorstin

[dma1260]

Hey VW buds !

I used some of the advise I got here and made a tool to press the bearings in (instead of wack'n them with a hammer) and they all seated fine.

I got a brand new Free Way Flyer transmission in the bus as of 2 months ago, new clutch as well.

NOW here is my Question - I put in ALL NEW bearings on passenger side (old ones where in rough shape) and oil seals. I got the hub and brake plate back on, and the axle nut with pin in place and put the tire back on. With the wheel off the ground I go to turn the rear wheel (with the car out of gear) and its tough to turn it ! It will turn by hand . . but it's not easy (and I know it's not the brake shoes touching the drum . . because I just adjusted the shoes to NOT touch the drum.

How "free wheeling" should this rear wheel be ? (after I put in new bearings - all 4 NEW bearings) in contrast, on the drivers side (with NO new barrings) and car out of gear - I can turn the rear wheel very easy - little to no resistance. But on the passenger side that I just replaced the bearings . . resistance . . not as "free wheeling" when I turn it by hand. Is this normal . . and I should not worry or pay any attention to it ? or does this mean something is wrong ? !

I did check the axles "turn ability" by hand (after I got the wheel off) and before I put the bearings in . . and it was stiff . . but this with with NO wheel on it and me just crabbing it by hand and trying to turn it. I could turn it . . but it was tough. I tried this as well with NO bearing in the axle . . and it still had some resistance.

Please advise - is it possible I pulled the axle out of it's seat in the transmission when I removed the bearings ? I did not notice any change in the length of the axle (if it did become unseated in the transmission) also as a test . . when I put the transmission in gear . . there is NO PLAY in the wheel when I go to turn it. Tight . . will not spin when engaged in a gear.

Please let me know if it is normal for the rear wheel to have some resistance to turning it by hand . . when transmission is in neutral.

Thanks

[Pacmanfever]

Did you lubricate the lips of the seals? If they are dry, that they are causing some drag on the rotating assemblies, not sure if that's enough to notice but could be one possible explanation.

It might take a short time for everything to get run in and seated too, and the fresh RGB lube might not be as thin as the old worn out stuff.

[dma1260]

Hey VW buds !

I'm getting a CLUNK . . . CLUNK . . CLUNK out of the side I replaced the bearings. ONLY when I'm coasting out of gear - when I put in gear . . NO CLUNK.

As I mentioned that wheel does not turn easy by hand . . (has resistance in same spot in the rotation) Other wheel that I DID NOT CHANGE THE BEARINGS turns easy by hand when Bus is not in gear.

DO I have a brake shoe issue ? DO I have a bearings need to get worn in issue (they are seated and in place BEYOND a DOUBT - I made sure and checked 3 times that they are flush in the RGB housing) or do I have a transmission (brand new and was not doing this until I pulled bearings a few days ago) issue ?

Could I have pulled the axle out of its seat when I pulled the top bearing out ? I don't think this is possible . . it must have some kind of coupling where it meets the differential that keeps it secure inside the transmission ? ! Again . . not brute force used to get the bearing out . . straight pull with a tool.

Cluck noise is minor . . but it's there . .and it's only noticeable when I push the clutch in and coast in neutral.

Please help . . I'm frigg'n loosing my mind over this issue.

Thanks !

[templeofspeed]

Likely you dropped a fulcrum plate behind the axle spade...
_________________
Is your suspension broken?

[dma1260]

really . . ? how would I know if that's the case . . ? would the axle be sticking out further be an inch . . ? would I have heard it drop . . and last but not least . . would this cause major damage to the transmission ? !

Thanks

[BarryL]

[dma1260]

Thanks for the info on this . . I appreciate it !

If this is the case (Fulcums fell behind) how far out would the axle have to have been pulled out (2inchs - 3 inches - etc) because I know as a fact that did not happen . . I was careful not to be pulling on it, worried something would fall out
in "the back".

But . . the wheel does not spin with ease and when I tried to turn the axle with no wheel on it and no bearing in place (using a vice grips) it as not an easy turn. Again . . this is a brand NEW Free Way Flyer transmission . . so I have to imagine it should spin with ease. The other side spins with ease. Should both sides be the same ? I assume they should.

Lets say I get LUCK (that would be nice !) and it's in the RGB . . what else would it be . . ALL the bearings are new . . all the bearings seated well when I pushed then in . . my seals are all working nothing is leaking. Could one of the gears be rubbing on the housing (I did notice that I pressed the bottom gear / bottom axle in far enough to touch the inside of the RGB housing and I had to pull in out slightly) but this would rub the full 360 - not just in a spot . . the CLUNK is in a Spot / Range . . (like it comes around on the same spot in the rotation) going at a very slow mph. If it was rubbing . . . it would be all the time unless it is off center ? !

I have only driven it 20 - 50 yards in this condition . . . and it seems to only be noticeable in neutral - coasting . . don't here it when it's in gear !

Thanks

[klcarrie]

Pete, (on his trip to Alaska), rebuilt his RGB and Trans in my back-yard. He let the fulcrum slip too... TWICE. He also swore that he put everything together correctly.

Do the job again. Make sure the axles do not move.

No amount of what if's are going to resolve a slipped fulcrum. You just have to dig in and set it again.

Good Luck.

Kevin
_________________
Pritchin'
--
Currently looking for:

- Bay Bus Pinion Nut Socket

- 64-67 big nut (rear) drums and brake parts, 46mm axle nuts (Big Nuts)

--
'55 Wolfburg Pannel Project
'55 Wolfsburg SC Project
'71 Westy

[dma1260]

Wow - I'm really bumming over this. I spent days looking into all the ways to pull the bearings . . and get the right tools . . and do it the right way. And in all that research and prep . . I did not read anywhere to "MAKE SURE YOU DONT PULL ON THE AXLE" not even in John Muir's book does it mention the possibility of pulling the Fulcrums out of position.

If this is the case and I did do this (seems highly likely at this point) I would have to pull the whole tube out to reposition the Fulcrums ! ? Meaning what . . I can do just one side (leaving the transmission in the Bus) or I have to pull the whole transmission out (pulling the engine as well) to do this ?

Lastly . . how far / play is in the axle to pull on it and have the Fulcrums fall out . . are we talking inches (1 - 2) or millimeters ? I know that at the most the axle might have been moved in or out 1/8 of an inch 1/4 at most. I did the work slow and deliberate (over 4 days) I would have noticed if it pulled or POPPED out of socket . . not to mention hearing something fall inside the tube or case . . I'm very aware and I keep the garage quiet for this exact reason (not to mention it's my only getaway from the family and all the noise that comes with it) would I not hear the plates fall out ?

Thanks again . . for all your help . . I was really excited about doing this job, figuring it out and getting the bearings in & out . . now I'm just bummed again!
Seems like every job I do on this bus has to be done 3 times. . . and it's not like I don't do the research and get all info prepared before I jump in.

I pull computers apart and fix them for a living . . it's tougher working on these 50 + year old cars.

[klcarrie]

You didn't read in the Muir book about the fulcrums because Muir basically states that if you have to replace anything more than the lower outer bearing... bring it to a professional.

You can leave the trans in the bus, but will have to pull the axle tube out to get to the fulcrums and crown gears. It is easier to work on the trans/rgb's when the unit is all out.

You're now probably going to order the following parts:
Trans side gaskets (enough to replicate your current side-gasket setup)
a set of new fulcrums (2) per side, a new bus crown gear).

You will now look to see if your axles are deformed from years of use and if so, you are now into a new box of worms... replacing the axles with good used ones.

review Pete's Detroit to Alaska thread and see what pitfalls he ran into.

Best, Kevin.
_________________
Pritchin'
--
Currently looking for:

- Bay Bus Pinion Nut Socket

- 64-67 big nut (rear) drums and brake parts, 46mm axle nuts (Big Nuts)

--
'55 Wolfburg Pannel Project
'55 Wolfsburg SC Project
'71 Westy

[dma1260]

Yes - John does state have a professional do it . . that's true. My Bad.

So - if I have not driven the Bus over 10 mph and not more then 50 yards . .
and its a new transmission . . you think I still need new parts ? The axle and the tubes are old . . no doubt . . but the tranny is brand NEW.

Would the bus run and work with Fulcrums not in position . . ? or would it have just bound up and have a lot of resistance . . ? reason I ask is its coasts nicely and it's not a LOUD grinding noise that I hear . . it's just a Clunk . . Clunk . . as I mentioned - in the same spot in the tire rotation.

Again . . sorry for all the rookie questions - I go between wanting to learn more and do more . . to just giving up and wanting to sell it. It's become such a frigg'n obsession. The frustrations are 3 -1 over the victories . . and believe me this bus is in very good shape . . it's no rust bucket and I have had it for almost 9 years. You would think I would know how to do everything at this point.

last but not least . . every time I bring it to some so called "VW genius" I get "crazy dude" with "major attitude" ("its a VW pal . .I know you know how it works . . but when you cure Cancer . . then you can tell me how smart you are") telling me more about what I don't know than would I do . . not to mention doing a less then mediocre job most of the time . . for a lot of money. This is why I started working on the bus myself a few years back . .
It almost cost me my pinky last year (got it caught in the belt) not to mention a lowering of my bank acct balance on a monthly basis. But for some reason I'm still drawn to working on it.

Go Figure.

[klcarrie]

I have a Ph.D.... really. But I don't presume anything.

Get yourself a copy of Zen and the Art of Motorcycle Maintenance. You will learn to 'just do'. Oh, and get the bently for your bus. both if you need them both.

Anyhow, Clunk = fulcrum.

I assume that since your Trans is fresh that thins are probably OK.

That said, Axles are not re-manufactured; I don't know where you sourced them.

When your axle is out, get a good look and shoot some pictures of the spade end of the axle itself. Look to see that the spades are shiny and flat. If not, you either get them reground/replated, and look for apropriate oversized fulcrums (not that easy to find). Look to see if the fulcrums are correct (eg flat with the edges beveled correctly). If they are beat they should show similar deformation as the beat spade ends; Replace them and the Crown Gears and find good Axles. Check the crown gear for scoring, deformation of the inside, cracks (micro) on the side of the crown gear are scored. If any of the above occurs, you're going to be into it for more cash.

Probably you just let the fulcrum slip and have to relocate it though.

Make sure your side gaskets are in good shape (probably they are).

Get going and enjoy.

K
_________________
Pritchin'
--
Currently looking for:

- Bay Bus Pinion Nut Socket

- 64-67 big nut (rear) drums and brake parts, 46mm axle nuts (Big Nuts)

--
'55 Wolfburg Pannel Project
'55 Wolfsburg SC Project
'71 Westy