Everything about CB Performance Black Box

stan_tichomirov · Posted: Sun Oct 05, 2014 8:10 pm Post subject:

I just got my Black Box working, so I'll post my installation experience and initial impressions.

Everything installed smoothy, I also used CB vaccum reference kit. I'm using a Fujitsu LH531 laptop with Windows 7 32-bit Home Edition installed. For USB to serial adapter, I'm using a GigaWare 2603487 cable from RadioShack:

http://www.radioshack.com/product/index.jsp?productId=24192246

Car started up fine, ran, warmed up, I took it for a drive. Drove fine, but after a while started dying, then would not restart. Sometimes it would crank and barely catch, then even out and run. I re-checked documentation and realized that I missed the step of verifying actual timing at the pulley with a timing gun. After making sure it matched what Black Box reported, I have not had issues.

One bug I see is, if you are running the software while driving and have the Spark Table open so you can watch it in real time, after a while the tracer highlighting the cell your current timing is in disappears. I click the "Tracer off" button, then "Tracer on" and it re-appears. Other than this, no bugs so far. Here is my current map:

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.

Stan
_________________
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Jansen Enterprise
My 1835cc build
My budget 2276 build

BBMV8 · Posted: Mon Oct 06, 2014 6:16 am Post subject:

Porsche60 · Posted: Mon Oct 06, 2014 8:16 am Post subject:

Pat D · Samba Member Joined: March 10, 2004 Posts: 414

racerx128 · Samba Member Joined: October 08, 2014 Posts: 2

Question for Pat at cb performance is there any advantage of running the black box and a msd ign box or just run the black box by itself?

Thanks Brad

BBMV8 · Posted: Fri Oct 10, 2014 4:08 pm Post subject:

The MSD unit will at least give out multiple sparks below 3000 rpm, which the Black Box won't I presume.
Been wondering aswell how much the BlackBox can/is controlling the dwell time of a coil?

Porsche60 · Posted: Fri Oct 10, 2014 8:02 pm Post subject:

The Black Box outputs kettering signal just like points, and drives the ignition coil directly.
It only controls timing. (and dwell)

MSD is not kettering but CDI, so you may benefit from advantages of MSD even with a Black Box.

MSD also releases programmable 6AL and that was one of my candidate before the Black Box was unveiled.
It seems a good product but I don't need MSD so the Black Box is enough and cheaper.

Porsche60 · Posted: Fri Oct 10, 2014 9:20 pm Post subject:

theDrew · Posted: Sun Nov 09, 2014 11:00 am Post subject:

For those that are having starter kickback. I'm finally onto something.

The BlackBox has a hard coded cranking timing of 10 degrees. For my engine this seems to be too advanced. Unfortunately this cannot be changed.

So I retarded the distributor 5 degree, so when it cranks it will be 5 degrees. You need to adjust your timing map to be +5 accordingly. Its alittle confusing to work with, but as long as your checking everything with a timing light its not that bad.

So far, kickback free.
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Turbo 2276 MS3X build http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=673125
1985 Vanagon Campmobile w/ 2005 EJ25

terryly · Samba Member Joined: September 21, 2012 Posts: 309

Hi theDrew could you or anyone tell or explain this starter kick back issue I have a CB Magnaspark digital distributor and with the dual carb timing map I may be suffering from the same thing thank you
Terry

j-dub · Posted: Sun Nov 09, 2014 7:22 pm Post subject:

Hey Terry,
The kickback issue is when the timing event does not happen at the desired time, for some reason it happens early or late. When it happens early and the fuel/air mix is still being compressed and the mixture lights off that sends the engine turning backwards, the flywheel jams into the starter and loud noises occur.

During troubleshooting I ended up taking a few videos of the pulley with a timing light while the engine was cranking over and realized what was happening. In the video I would see the spark at 10...10...70, at the 70 degree event is where the banging would occur.

This is a screen capture of the video showing the position of the spark event

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"POLICE STATION TOILET STOLEN ... Cops have nothing to go on."

Porsche60 · Posted: Sun Nov 09, 2014 7:25 pm Post subject:

Porsche60 · Posted: Mon Nov 10, 2014 7:58 am Post subject:

theDrew · Posted: Mon Nov 10, 2014 9:36 am Post subject:

Hophead · Posted: Mon Nov 10, 2014 2:07 pm Post subject:

I would have never bought mine if things such as the locked cranking timing were disclosed up front.

With my hi torque starter I do not get kick back. I get straight backfire up through my carbs... I cannot tune it out no matter what I do.

Combined with the problem of my tach not working correctly with the black box left me with no option but to shitcan the system and go back to the original distributor set up.

Moving everything -5 degrees and having to change all the mapping is a bandaid and no consumer should have to do that to make this thing work.
_________________
70' Beetle Pan off Resto
2110cc
82 X 90.5
P&P 043 40x35.5
9.6-1 comp
FK-8
48 IDA

Northof49 · Posted: Mon Nov 10, 2014 2:12 pm Post subject:

10 degrees BTDC causes kickback?
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1958 Karmann Ghia owner

Steve Arndt · Posted: Mon Nov 10, 2014 2:36 pm Post subject:

Porsche60 · Posted: Tue Nov 11, 2014 4:40 am Post subject:

Porsche60 · Posted: Tue Nov 11, 2014 8:34 am Post subject:

It seems there are two different problems.

#1 Cranking timing below 300rpm is fixed at 10 degrees.
Weak starter or high compression may slow down cracking speed and cause kickback.
Cranking timing should be adjustable.

#2 Sometimes the timing jumps to 70 degrees.
Weak battery or noise? Undiscoverd.
It must not happen because it may heavily damage the engine.

I don't have kickback issue, after I carefully set 400rpm row.
If 400rpm timing is not ideal, cracking may slow down and cause kickback, I guess.


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