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jfats808
Samba Member
Joined: December 10, 2007
Posts: 5022
Location: oahu hawaii
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 Posted: Tue Sep 23, 2014 3:52 pm Post subject: |
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| Can you give me some reasoning behind your suggestion? I'm learning as I go here... |
Regarding scat lifters, they are known to pit after time due to the hard surface of the face. A proven off the shelf lifter with not many if at all, complaints of failures. Scat makes good forged cranks and rods though.
_________________
2276 IDA's 86C 11-1 DD !
2017 48 Trijet DRLA's W125
| Rockstar Suzuki wrote: |
You might as well put 10 year build in your bullshit sig, as it will NEVER run. Also your a dick |
You can always learn something new, even from a fool.
Check your oil levels routinely! |
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Northof49
Samba Member
Joined: July 22, 2013
Posts: 1759
Location: Winnipeg, Manitoba, Canada
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| Posted: Thu Sep 25, 2014 11:57 am Post subject: |
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What would be your choice for intake and exhaust sizing on this motor? I wondering if you plan to go 1 1/2" or 1 5/8 on exhaust, or 44 vs 48 on carbs, etc.
Do you intend to retain exhaust generated heat?
I'm also contemplating at 2180 build, or maybe 94mm cylinders x 82 stroke. Sort of a mid tuned performance engine. Not an all out.
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1958 Karmann Ghia owner |
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aaaronw
Samba Member
Joined: October 19, 2010
Posts: 57
Location: So. Cal.
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| Posted: Fri Sep 26, 2014 11:04 am Post subject: |
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| Northof49 wrote: |
What would be your choice for intake and exhaust sizing on this motor? I wondering if you plan to go 1 1/2" or 1 5/8 on exhaust, or 44 vs 48 on carbs, etc.
Do you intend to retain exhaust generated heat?
I'm also contemplating at 2180 build, or maybe 94mm cylinders x 82 stroke. Sort of a mid tuned performance engine. Not an all out. |
I'm planning on a 1 5/8" Vintage Speed exhaust and 40 or 44 dual Weber IDF carbs. I'm not keeping the heater boxes. |
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aaaronw
Samba Member
Joined: October 19, 2010
Posts: 57
Location: So. Cal.
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| Posted: Fri Sep 26, 2014 11:09 am Post subject: |
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| I'm thinking of going with a 26mm oil pump. Does anyone think I should go 30mm? It will have a 1.5qt deep sump. |
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jfats808
Samba Member
Joined: December 10, 2007
Posts: 5022
Location: oahu hawaii
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| Posted: Fri Sep 26, 2014 11:41 am Post subject: |
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I have installed a vintage exhaust system on a bus. They fit well. They are however are loud like I previously mentioned in another post. Hard choices, some exhaust shops are behind and rushing to fill back orders. The other choice is sidewinder and tuck away styles. Youll have to be flexible when making lash adjustments.
A sled tin set up can fit easier with minor modification and work with 1.5 set ups.
26mm will work just fine.
_________________
2276 IDA's 86C 11-1 DD !
2017 48 Trijet DRLA's W125
| Rockstar Suzuki wrote: |
You might as well put 10 year build in your bullshit sig, as it will NEVER run. Also your a dick |
You can always learn something new, even from a fool.
Check your oil levels routinely! |
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aaaronw
Samba Member
Joined: October 19, 2010
Posts: 57
Location: So. Cal.
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| Posted: Fri Sep 26, 2014 3:51 pm Post subject: |
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| jfats808 wrote: |
I have installed a vintage exhaust system on a bus. They fit well. They are however are loud like I previously mentioned in another post. Hard choices, some exhaust shops are behind and rushing to fill back orders. The other choice is sidewinder and tuck away styles. Youll have to be flexible when making lash adjustments.
A sled tin set up can fit easier with minor modification and work with 1.5 set ups.
26mm will work just fine. |
What year was the bus? I'm concerned about apron clearance on my '58. Would the A1 sidewinder be a better fit for me? |
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jfats808
Samba Member
Joined: December 10, 2007
Posts: 5022
Location: oahu hawaii
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| Posted: Fri Sep 26, 2014 4:56 pm Post subject: |
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Aaron,
The bus was a 61 or 62. Unfortunately I dont know the differences from 58 to 62. Try calling A1 and inquire for a direct response.I believe that is what they were designed to fit in. What really fits nowadays though without a little elbow grease.
_________________
2276 IDA's 86C 11-1 DD !
2017 48 Trijet DRLA's W125
| Rockstar Suzuki wrote: |
You might as well put 10 year build in your bullshit sig, as it will NEVER run. Also your a dick |
You can always learn something new, even from a fool.
Check your oil levels routinely! |
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jtwaller
Samba Member
Joined: January 30, 2012
Posts: 345
Location: HIDEAWAY, TX
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| Posted: Fri Sep 26, 2014 5:15 pm Post subject: |
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Have you considered running a cam that you could still run 1:1 rockers? Not familiar with your cam, but you will gain some engine life with 1:1 rockers in that heavy bus with little to no difference in HP or torc.
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1967 Daily Driver
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( O \ ! / O )
1973 Thing
1969 Squareback
1967 Bug
1968 Bug
1971 Bug
| mark tucker wrote: |
| the more you stroke it the better it feals.bore it out while your there, you will like it if you do it corectly. watch out for the ones that are used and abused, they can be headaches.well all of them can be headaches. |
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aaaronw
Samba Member
Joined: October 19, 2010
Posts: 57
Location: So. Cal.
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| Posted: Sat Sep 27, 2014 10:02 am Post subject: |
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| jtwaller wrote: |
| Have you considered running a cam that you could still run 1:1 rockers? Not familiar with your cam, but you will gain some engine life with 1:1 rockers in that heavy bus with little to no difference in HP or torc. |
This is my first performance engine build, so I'm relying on advice from others to get this right. As I said, my first priorities for this project are drivability and reliability. If a more mild cam and stock rockers would be better, I'm willing to consider it. Are there any others that want to help me out with their opinions?
So far, I'm relying heavily on some initial advice I got from John at aircooled.net. I don't think he is steering me wrong here. |
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modok
Samba Member
Joined: October 30, 2009
Posts: 26789
Location: Colorado Springs
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| Posted: Sat Sep 27, 2014 11:47 am Post subject: |
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The web 163 is a perfect choice. This cam has longer lash ramps and gentler acceleration than the engle W series, so can use 1.25 rockers no problem.
I think you'll want to get the compression ratio around 8.5-1.
9-1 might be too high.
A set of 40mm dellortos would be great on this engine, these came with 34mm venturi. 44 weber idfs can work, also the 40mm HPMX with 32mm venturis might be good. |
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aaaronw
Samba Member
Joined: October 19, 2010
Posts: 57
Location: So. Cal.
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| Posted: Sat Sep 27, 2014 5:35 pm Post subject: |
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| Thanks Glen. I'm thinking of going with 40 weber IDFs. You think that's too small? |
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modok
Samba Member
Joined: October 30, 2009
Posts: 26789
Location: Colorado Springs
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| Posted: Sat Sep 27, 2014 6:29 pm Post subject: |
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They 40-idf-70 would be maxed out at 32 vents, but MY alfa webers and the empi hpmx use the larger booster and top size as the 44 IDF.
With THESE 34 vents is still reasonable. |
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aaaronw
Samba Member
Joined: October 19, 2010
Posts: 57
Location: So. Cal.
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| Posted: Mon Sep 29, 2014 11:00 am Post subject: |
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Just got a call from Paradise Motorsports. They say that my old case looks strong and doesn't even need an align bore. As some have already suggested, he said I would have some clearance problems if I stick with Type 1 journals and the 3/8" connecting rods. His recommendation is to go with Chevy journals which he says will eliminate my clearance issues and have longer bearing life.
I'd rather switch back to the Chevy journals to avoid clearancing headaches, but I want to make sure I get this right. Which will give longer engine life, VW or Chevy journals? I'm hearing two different opinions on this... |
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jfats808
Samba Member
Joined: December 10, 2007
Posts: 5022
Location: oahu hawaii
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| Posted: Mon Sep 29, 2014 12:51 pm Post subject: |
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If its strong enough for a v8 , why cant it be strong enough for a 4 cyl vw? Paradise motorsports who is an actual shop and race team is recommending it for your build then it will be fine. Youll still need to clearance the case btw, just less.
_________________
2276 IDA's 86C 11-1 DD !
2017 48 Trijet DRLA's W125
| Rockstar Suzuki wrote: |
You might as well put 10 year build in your bullshit sig, as it will NEVER run. Also your a dick |
You can always learn something new, even from a fool.
Check your oil levels routinely! |
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aaaronw
Samba Member
Joined: October 19, 2010
Posts: 57
Location: So. Cal.
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| Posted: Mon Sep 29, 2014 8:48 pm Post subject: |
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| jfats808 wrote: |
| If its strong enough for a v8 , why cant it be strong enough for a 4 cyl vw? Paradise motorsports who is an actual shop and race team is recommending it for your build then it will be fine. Youll still need to clearance the case btw, just less. |
According to Paradise, it isn't just a case clearance issue. They say that I will have problems with connecting rods clearing the cam. A assume this means that the cam (or rods?) needs to be machined for clearance. Is that right?
After some more research, I think I have a better understanding of some of the pros/cons between VW and Chevy journals. I get that Chevy journals will give me stronger bearings and that VW journals will give a stronger crankshaft, but I don't think my build will be anywhere near the limits of either. [email protected] made a good point about being able to regrind a VW crank a few more times for rebuilds. Since I only plan on driving a few thousand miles a year, this is not a huge concern to me.
So... I think I'm leaning toward Paradise's advice of going with the Chevy journals. |
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modok
Samba Member
Joined: October 30, 2009
Posts: 26789
Location: Colorado Springs
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| Posted: Mon Sep 29, 2014 9:31 pm Post subject: |
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Many have built a 82 stroke with stock VW rods............. IT CAN FIT.
Many of the aftermarket rods use the same bolt spacing for both the VW or 2" size, it's just the same rod with a smaller hole in it  In this case going to 2" does not help clearance AT ALL.
You will find CB h-beams VW size, 5/16 bolts. These use narrow bolt spacing, makes 78 stroke almost drop in! IMO use these rods and clevite bearings setup with .002-.0025 clearance.
The 2" journal makes the crank weaker because it is smaller and the bearing is wider. This does not really matter.
My main complaint with it is the buick bearings are made for .001 clearance and you can't run a VW that tight. The more wobbly you make the crank the looser your bearings must be. Ask them how they fix this.
3/8 rod bolts are ok but I do not think it will keep the rods any rounder than 5/16 bolts. I will use a cheap 3/8 bolt with confidence tho. Saves money. |
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jfats808
Samba Member
Joined: December 10, 2007
Posts: 5022
Location: oahu hawaii
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| Posted: Mon Sep 29, 2014 11:29 pm Post subject: |
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Cam clearancing never bugs me. I just bring out my carbide bits and cut where it needs it. You never can tell until you mock it up. Obviously having a company do it and then heat treat it after is better. Scat 82 chevy crank, 3/8 arp2000 bolts and fk8 for my original build never needed clearancing other than case. Now with same crank and 86c, I had to clearance the cam and two crank cw throws. This is a real pain to do because of constant cleaning. You never know till mock up.
_________________
2276 IDA's 86C 11-1 DD !
2017 48 Trijet DRLA's W125
| Rockstar Suzuki wrote: |
You might as well put 10 year build in your bullshit sig, as it will NEVER run. Also your a dick |
You can always learn something new, even from a fool.
Check your oil levels routinely! |
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redmagne
Samba Member
Joined: January 29, 2014
Posts: 21
Location: Idaho
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| Posted: Tue Sep 30, 2014 10:57 am Post subject: |
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| I have stock rods(balanced with ARP bolts) on an 82 crank with an fk43. Its only in mock up but everything has plenty of clearance and spins nicely. |
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aaaronw
Samba Member
Joined: October 19, 2010
Posts: 57
Location: So. Cal.
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| Posted: Wed Oct 15, 2014 7:36 pm Post subject: |
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I got my case back from Performance VW. Clearanced and full-flowed, but not as clean as I hoped it would be. I'll be spending some time getting it as clean as I can.
What is up with this oil cooler mount stud? What cooler would fit here? I'm planning to remove this one and tap it for the right size stud.
Is it worth my time to remove the oil galley plugs for a thorough cleaning?
My parts are starting to arrive. Expect a lot more questions soon. |
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jfats808
Samba Member
Joined: December 10, 2007
Posts: 5022
Location: oahu hawaii
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| Posted: Wed Oct 15, 2014 10:13 pm Post subject: |
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Looks like that was a type 3 universal case. The 6mm stud could be for the side mounted type 3 cooler. Its a lil long though.... anyway. Remove and tap it for 8mm. Brother, that case is clean. I love to work with cases that clean. Pulling the relief valves and cleaning/light 600 sanding to smooth down the valves and cleaning the passages with tube wire brushes is never a bad idea. Valves should slide out with little resistance.
_________________
2276 IDA's 86C 11-1 DD !
2017 48 Trijet DRLA's W125
| Rockstar Suzuki wrote: |
You might as well put 10 year build in your bullshit sig, as it will NEVER run. Also your a dick |
You can always learn something new, even from a fool.
Check your oil levels routinely! |
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