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WesleyGarrard
Samba Member
Joined: October 08, 2007
Posts: 541
Location: Pekin, Il
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 Posted: Thu Sep 11, 2014 10:17 am Post subject: Building a performance muffler that won't drag |
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I have a 63 beetle that has been modified for spirited driving. It has a 1600 with dual carbs, merged header, single quietpack, 110 cam, 1.25:1 rockers, mild porting. I have done some suspension upgrades, thicker sway bar, adjustable shocks, camber compensator, Superior control bars, 6in widened stock wheels. I lowered the rear just enough to get a hair of negative camber. Cannot see any difference in height when parked next to a stock height car.
Anyway, the quiet pack just drags on everything. I have to take most inclines at crazy angles just so it will not scrape. So I am setting out to find a good muffler that will give me a bit more clearance and still provide increased performance. This has led me to this muffler. http://www.flopro.com/baffle.html
It is the Flo-Pro baffle pack. It is smaller than a glasspack while still being a chambered muffler. This thing is tiny compared to the quiet pack. This weekend I look to have it welded up so I can begin posting pictures and start testing. |
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Hotrodvw
Samba Member
Joined: July 06, 2004
Posts: 6327
Location: Orygun
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| Posted: Thu Sep 11, 2014 1:16 pm Post subject: |
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Buy an A-1 Sidewinder and move on with life.
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'67 Sunroof
Eric
78x94 with IDA's....oober fun
Horsepower is an addiction........Addictions cost
lots of money!
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catbox
Samba Member
Joined: May 16, 2007
Posts: 865
Location: Portland, Oregon
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| Posted: Thu Sep 11, 2014 4:28 pm Post subject: |
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Long ago I made this exhaust for my car and it runs like a champ.
I took a cheap $10 swap meet extractor and cut the small flange off of it.
I then welded a 2-1/4" collector stub end back onto it.
Now I have a larger collector.
From there I ordered this muffler...
http://www.summitracing.com/parts/mpe-14415/overview/
With its same size in and out as my new collector as well as a large free flowing core. No pinched off nasal Honda style sounds from it...
With the muffler and one $15 Ubend in the appropriate size I had my exhaust.
Here is a shot of the mock up for the hangers...
Because the collector flanges are not welded to the pipe like all the VW ones that I have had, I needed to have a rear hanger come off the bumper.
It has been this way for 6 years and approximatley 45,000 miles.
Since this shot I have trimmed and welded the hanger to the pipe as well as welded the tip on.
I only rub it on the worst driveway entrances, but my car is not lowered in the rear at all. Just a nice natural sag from time.
Just a thought for you.
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"...these cars were preferred by the racers because the strut front suspension results in far superior handling than the regular torsion bar front end..." - Keith Seume. |
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modok
Samba Member
Joined: October 30, 2009
Posts: 26785
Location: Colorado Springs
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| Posted: Thu Sep 11, 2014 4:47 pm Post subject: |
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| The overhang is what gets you. If the collector flange is under the apron then it will drag with me driving. No more of that thanks. |
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WesleyGarrard
Samba Member
Joined: October 08, 2007
Posts: 541
Location: Pekin, Il
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| Posted: Thu Sep 11, 2014 6:24 pm Post subject: |
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| Hotrodvw wrote: |
| Buy an A-1 Sidewinder and move on with life. |
Eh, I am cheap. The muffler was $20 after discounts. Normally it is $40-50. Should not cost too much to get the small about of tubing I need.
But here is the size difference compared to the quietpack.
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Hotrodvw
Samba Member
Joined: July 06, 2004
Posts: 6327
Location: Orygun
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| Posted: Thu Sep 11, 2014 9:05 pm Post subject: |
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It WILL sound like shit. Yes, I've heard shit before. You can be cheap, but I 'll be you're not happy with it.
_________________
'67 Sunroof
Eric
78x94 with IDA's....oober fun
Horsepower is an addiction........Addictions cost
lots of money!
Hose & Fittings |
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Northof49
Samba Member
Joined: July 22, 2013
Posts: 1759
Location: Winnipeg, Manitoba, Canada
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| Posted: Fri Sep 12, 2014 5:08 am Post subject: |
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Is it actually a muffler, or merely a resonator?
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1958 Karmann Ghia owner |
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WesleyGarrard
Samba Member
Joined: October 08, 2007
Posts: 541
Location: Pekin, Il
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| Posted: Fri Sep 12, 2014 5:37 am Post subject: |
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| Hotrodvw wrote: |
| It WILL sound like shit. Yes, I've heard shit before. You can be cheap, but I 'll be you're not happy with it. |
It is possible. But since no one has ever used one on a VW I thought I would try it out. It is a pretty popular muffler for the Honda Z600 crowd. Those little two cylinders sound pretty nice with this muffler. It will not hurt anything but my wallet. Plus, I like to design and build my own parts. Sure, I can buy something and bolt it on and there is nothing wrong with that. But when you have an idea and try it out, if you are lucky, it works. Then you get that smug look on your face and brag to your friends. If it doesn't work, well, now you know what doesn't work so you can try something else.
Last edited by WesleyGarrard on Fri Sep 12, 2014 5:46 am; edited 1 time in total |
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WesleyGarrard
Samba Member
Joined: October 08, 2007
Posts: 541
Location: Pekin, Il
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| Posted: Fri Sep 12, 2014 5:40 am Post subject: |
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| Northof49 wrote: |
| Is it actually a muffler, or merely a resonator? |
It is actually a muffler. The internals are basically the same as a turbo muffler. |
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Todd66
Samba Member
Joined: February 19, 2012
Posts: 461
Location: Utah
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| Posted: Fri Sep 12, 2014 6:41 am Post subject: |
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| I'm still trying to figure out how this is going to fix your original problem. It's still going to drag everywhere, but go ahead and try it. |
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Northof49
Samba Member
Joined: July 22, 2013
Posts: 1759
Location: Winnipeg, Manitoba, Canada
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| Posted: Fri Sep 12, 2014 6:53 am Post subject: |
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Good luck with the project, and be sure to report back.
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1958 Karmann Ghia owner |
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miniman82
Samba Swamp Donkey
Joined: March 22, 2005
Posts: 9515
Location: Southern Maryland
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| Posted: Fri Sep 12, 2014 11:13 am Post subject: |
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I put one of those bullet style mufflers on my car, it sounded pretty good and wasn't too loud either. But I have a turbo, N/A it probably would be too loud for my comfort level.
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Build thread: http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=212747
| Glenn wrote: |
| satterley_sr wrote: |
I just wanted to bitch but I'm getting no sympathy. |
Welcome to the Samba. |
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raygreenwood
Samba Member
Joined: November 24, 2008
Posts: 21513
Location: Oklahoma City
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| Posted: Fri Sep 12, 2014 1:22 pm Post subject: |
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| WesleyGarrard wrote: |
| Northof49 wrote: |
| Is it actually a muffler, or merely a resonator? |
It is actually a muffler. The internals are basically the same as a turbo muffler. |
Its actually a bit of both. It is specifically using resonator materials...but has a Z baffle like a muffler. Interesting design.
Resonators are exactly what the name says. They are designed to damp harmonic resonations that generally will not be damped by the muffler. you know the kind.....the ones that pop up at an exact cruising speed and are just soul-numbing for any extended period. Not really loud at all. Just a huge permeating vibration that causes your ears and skull to vibrate.
Mufflers damp audible sound levels by reflecting, bouncing the exhaust and sound waves back and forth in tuned chambers (or not tuned on some). What the resonator kills off are usually too high of a frequency for the muffler to really help with.
I wonder how much flow energy is lost in a unit that does both?
If you have ever driven any of the older WC vw's....like rabbit or sirocco...missing the resonator.....at highway speed its ungodly on the inside.
Ray |
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theastronaut
Samba Member
Joined: November 19, 2007
Posts: 1631
Location: Anderson, SC
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| Posted: Fri Sep 12, 2014 1:32 pm Post subject: |
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Get a Vintage Speed Taiwan exhaust. Mine never drags and it's fairly low, I think it's at two outer splines in the rear. I used to knock the old Bugpack 1 3/8" header/hideaway loose all the time before switching. Even if you change the muffler to a smaller one the collector will still drag.
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/classifieds/detail.php?id=802629
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Strive for perfection in everything. Take the best that exist and make it better. If it doesn't exist, create it. Accept nothing nearly right or good enough."
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'64 Beetle Sunroof OG Bahama Blue
'63 Beetle Vert
'66 Beetle
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WesleyGarrard
Samba Member
Joined: October 08, 2007
Posts: 541
Location: Pekin, Il
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| Posted: Sat Sep 13, 2014 2:40 pm Post subject: |
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So, I got it welded up and painted. It is on the car now. I have to say I am pleased with it. It is a little louder than I was expecting. But it does have a nice sound to it.
But first, here is the old quiet pack.
Here is the new muffler.
And here is the over hang.
I forgot to take a picture of the overhang of the old muffler. But it stuck out and inch and a half past the apron. Now it is down to 3/4 of an inch. I now have a half inch of clearance pulling in to my drive. I have not increased ground clearance by much. But, I have done it enough. I still have to take a carful approach to inclines. Now I just have more room for error. |
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Hotrodvw
Samba Member
Joined: July 06, 2004
Posts: 6327
Location: Orygun
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| Posted: Sat Sep 13, 2014 2:44 pm Post subject: |
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That looks to me like a glass pack type 'muffler'. If it is (For $20 I'll assume that's the case), the packing will not last, and it will get louder and louder. Be prepared to replace it earlier than expected.
_________________
'67 Sunroof
Eric
78x94 with IDA's....oober fun
Horsepower is an addiction........Addictions cost
lots of money!
Hose & Fittings |
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WesleyGarrard
Samba Member
Joined: October 08, 2007
Posts: 541
Location: Pekin, Il
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| Posted: Sat Sep 13, 2014 4:24 pm Post subject: |
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| Hotrodvw wrote: |
| That looks to me like a glass pack type 'muffler'. If it is (For $20 I'll assume that's the case), the packing will not last, and it will get louder and louder. Be prepared to replace it earlier than expected. |
Then you would assume wrong.
You know what happens when you ass u me? Also, the muffler is not usually $20. I had a coupon and they were having a sale. So I paid $20. But it retails for $50. But it is a fully welded, aluminized muffler. Made in Canada.
It must also have better flow. It seems to run a bit leaner. But I have have only ran it long enough to cure the paint. |
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WesleyGarrard
Samba Member
Joined: October 08, 2007
Posts: 541
Location: Pekin, Il
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| Posted: Sat Sep 13, 2014 4:29 pm Post subject: |
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| Hotrodvw wrote: |
| It WILL sound like shit. Yes, I've heard shit before. You can be cheap, but I 'll be you're not happy with it. |
Also, how much was the bet for? Because I love the sound and am quite happy with it. |
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Hotrodvw
Samba Member
Joined: July 06, 2004
Posts: 6327
Location: Orygun
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| Posted: Sat Sep 13, 2014 5:37 pm Post subject: |
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let's cut it open
_________________
'67 Sunroof
Eric
78x94 with IDA's....oober fun
Horsepower is an addiction........Addictions cost
lots of money!
Hose & Fittings |
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esde
Samba Member
Joined: October 20, 2007
Posts: 5966
Location: central rust belt
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| Posted: Sat Sep 13, 2014 8:22 pm Post subject: |
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I ran a super trap on my last engine, tucked up tight between the apron, and the bumper. Being a super trap it was either love it or hate it, but I never scraped the thing as it was small and tucked way up. The collector flange on the other hand took a royal beating every day.
Small mufflers will be loud, no matter what they're full of. |
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