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first build A couple questions please
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zbug
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PostPosted: Fri Sep 12, 2014 9:08 pm    Post subject: first build A couple questions please Reply with quote

Hi everybody, I'm sort of a newb, but I've been reading this engine forum for the last month or so, day and night. I've also accumulated a ton of engine stuff over the last 6 months, and I think I'm ready to pull the trigger. I wanted to start with something smaller and with some odds and ends I had laying around (not junk). I don't want to use the good (big) stuff on my first. I bought out an old guy of all his stuff from over the years, and in his shed was a 2180 sitting on a table that was very short lived due to loosing a flywheel. Everything spec'd out like new when I took it apart, so I wanted to use this case, P/C's, heads, rockers-cb 1.25.

I wanted to do a 1835
This is what I have

as21 single relief case. bored, full flow, welded, line bored +20 (redone by brothers)

DPR 69mm c/w crank

like new forged mahle 92 stroker B piston. (cleaned and honed) deves rings

40 x 35 ported heads rebuilt by Brothers. hd single spring or duels if needed for the 1.25 rockers. (these heads have a M6 in the casting area with no other #'s).

XV280 SLR cam and lifters. 1.1 or 1.25 rockers (don't know yet)

36 dells (new)

My questions are: is the single relief case gonna be ok to use? Its full flowed and I've read that its important to get the oil pressure right with this case. Has any body heard of M6 casting on the heads? are they any good? These 92 P/C's are thin walls .118 is this a problem for over heating and warping for this engine combo? I saw some thick wall cyl's on ACN's web site that take the 90.5/92 case registers and 94 head registers. didn't know if I should get them.
And lastly; with 92 B stroker pistons, and 69mm crank, I've seen on here that I can use a longer rod to make up the distance. Is this true, and what size should I use? 5.6, 5.7 ?

I've built a few 4 stroke mx race bike engine, but these are a much more complicated animal. So I hope I don't sound too ridiculous Thanks for reading.
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modok
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PostPosted: Fri Sep 12, 2014 9:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Stock piston is 39.5mm pin height,
mahle 92 B is 34.5mm
AA "B" is 35mm

You can do the addition and subtracteration.


Single relief case is ok for stock stroke IMO, just use a 26 or 21mm oil pump. too big an oil pump will overwhelm the little oil system.

May as well use them if the skirts aren't collapsed. Check that. Thinwalls warp easier but It'll last long enough you'll get tired of it and want more.
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zbug
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PostPosted: Fri Sep 12, 2014 10:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

So 5.6 rods or 5.7? or maybe some decking? this again is sort of a BS motor for me to learn on and be able to use up some extra parts that are lying around. I plan on building a lot more. so any help would greatly appreciated. Thanks modok.
The skirts are good. And ya, I'm sure I'll get tired of it soon
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modok
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PostPosted: Fri Sep 12, 2014 10:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

5.6 length rod
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Danwvw
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PostPosted: Fri Sep 12, 2014 10:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I would save the stroker pistons for a stroker! New P&C's are pretty in-expensive when you consider what your getting. Sounds like the case and the heads are already opened up for the 92's ? Great find New Dells! Wow. Sounds like the makings of a little gem of a motor! Looks like the price on Pistons and cylinders did just go up a little though.
http://vwparts.aircooled.net/Piston-Cylinder-Set-92mm-x-69mm-Machine-In-p/vw9200t1m.htm
http://www.rimcovw.com/home/connecting-rods/
http://dprmachine.com.s152704.gridserver.com/products/vw-connecting-rods/
http://www.demellocranks.com/Price%20List,%202006.htm
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bugguy1967
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PostPosted: Fri Sep 12, 2014 10:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

You could use 5.4 rods. It'll just be real narrow. I've seen it done though.
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PostPosted: Fri Sep 12, 2014 10:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

bugguy1967 wrote:
You could use 5.4 rods. It'll just be real narrow. I've seen it done though.
What! Rolling Eyes
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zbug
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PostPosted: Fri Sep 12, 2014 10:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

the thing is , is that I haven't got the rods yet, and there less expensive than new P/C's, so I thought I would go that way instead. also, I didn't want to use those used thin walls later on a bigger motor. So I thought I would use them up.

I'm thinking 4340 h beams are good enough, but I'm have a hard time finding them in that size
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Danwvw
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PostPosted: Fri Sep 12, 2014 11:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

That makes since! But it will likely burn a little oil not too bad. I don't know every time I have gone with used piston & cylinders I got an engine that smoked just a little. Man used stock rods are everywhere too. I bet I have 2 or 3 sets that I will never use. Probably I don't know what the core charge is for them? $25 maybe! But yeah, the H-beams would be the nicest rods though. The last ones I ordered were the AA I-Beams, pretty nice. A lot heaver though! These Scat may be ok: http://vwparts.aircooled.net/category-s/337.htm So are your cylinders short or are they long? Remember if the cylinders are long then your going to have to play with push-rod length too.
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PostPosted: Sat Sep 13, 2014 8:40 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yeah, seen it a few times. Actually, I saw that Ray Vallero builds his HP short strokes like that. The B pistons have a more modern skirt than the A pistons and they are lighter. I had an 1835 in my garage for many years that used B pistons, shortened cylinders and shortened pushrods. It had a shroud on it that was unmodified too. Only the cylinder tins were cut. SCAT spring loaded tubes have enough adjustability to fit.
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zbug
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PostPosted: Sat Sep 13, 2014 5:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Oops crap. I meant to say 4340 I beams instead of H beams. Does anyone know where to get a 5.6 I beam? Thanks
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zbug
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PostPosted: Sat Sep 13, 2014 9:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

So

Last edited by zbug on Sat Sep 13, 2014 9:43 pm; edited 1 time in total
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PostPosted: Sat Sep 13, 2014 9:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Danwvw wrote:
That makes since! But it will likely burn a little oil not too bad. I don't know every time I have gone with used piston & cylinders I got an engine that smoked just a little. Man used stock rods are everywhere too. I bet I have 2 or 3 sets that I will never use. Probably I don't know what the core charge is for them? $25 maybe! But yeah, the H-beams would be the nicest rods though. The last ones I ordered were the AA I-Beams, pretty nice. A lot heaver though! These Scat may be ok: http://vwparts.aircooled.net/category-s/337.htm So are your cylinders short or are they long? Remember if the cylinders are long then your going to have to play with push-rod length too.


I thought the cylinder length was the same on both the A piston kit and the B piston kit, and just the pistons had a different pin height. And the P/C's I have rite now are like almost new, and have new rings. So I don't think I'll have that problem.
I still can't find an I beam set of rods that are 5.6 in length


Last edited by zbug on Sat Sep 13, 2014 9:47 pm; edited 2 times in total
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PostPosted: Sat Sep 13, 2014 9:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

sorry about previous, previous post, I don't know what I'm doing yet.
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PostPosted: Sat Sep 13, 2014 10:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I don't believe they are common. If you want 5.6s to keep normal engine width, use H-beams.
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PostPosted: Sun Sep 14, 2014 12:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Not sure what the cylinder length sizes are that they come in, But cylinders come in at least 2 lengths. The 69-76mm stroke use stock cylinders and "B" pistons for 78-84mm strokes also use standard stock length cylinders but Long Length cylinders can be used also. So I was not sure what yours were. Looks like there are no rods longer than 5.5" I Beam or 5.7" H Beam here on ACN. Not sure where you would find them.
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PostPosted: Sun Sep 14, 2014 5:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I have never seen a 5.6 I beam rod.
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bugguy1967
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PostPosted: Sun Sep 14, 2014 7:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

http://www.thesamba.com/vw/classifieds/detail.php?id=1454101

Companies used to make them for people that wanted to run B pistons on stock strokes.

Zbug, act quick and they could be yours.
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PostPosted: Mon Sep 15, 2014 8:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I just saw a CIP-1 Ad for those Scat 5.6" I-Beams but it was in the "HOT VW" June 2005 issue! Better snap those above up! If you decide to build your "B" Piston Engine. No 5.6" rods now on the CIP-1 Web-Site!
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zbug
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PostPosted: Mon Sep 15, 2014 10:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks bugguy for the pm. I left a message. Its kinda late to call so hopefully I got em
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