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zbug Samba Member
Joined: December 28, 2013 Posts: 84 Location: nevada
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Posted: Fri Sep 12, 2014 9:08 pm Post subject: first build A couple questions please |
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Hi everybody, I'm sort of a newb, but I've been reading this engine forum for the last month or so, day and night. I've also accumulated a ton of engine stuff over the last 6 months, and I think I'm ready to pull the trigger. I wanted to start with something smaller and with some odds and ends I had laying around (not junk). I don't want to use the good (big) stuff on my first. I bought out an old guy of all his stuff from over the years, and in his shed was a 2180 sitting on a table that was very short lived due to loosing a flywheel. Everything spec'd out like new when I took it apart, so I wanted to use this case, P/C's, heads, rockers-cb 1.25.
I wanted to do a 1835
This is what I have
as21 single relief case. bored, full flow, welded, line bored +20 (redone by brothers)
DPR 69mm c/w crank
like new forged mahle 92 stroker B piston. (cleaned and honed) deves rings
40 x 35 ported heads rebuilt by Brothers. hd single spring or duels if needed for the 1.25 rockers. (these heads have a M6 in the casting area with no other #'s).
XV280 SLR cam and lifters. 1.1 or 1.25 rockers (don't know yet)
36 dells (new)
My questions are: is the single relief case gonna be ok to use? Its full flowed and I've read that its important to get the oil pressure right with this case. Has any body heard of M6 casting on the heads? are they any good? These 92 P/C's are thin walls .118 is this a problem for over heating and warping for this engine combo? I saw some thick wall cyl's on ACN's web site that take the 90.5/92 case registers and 94 head registers. didn't know if I should get them.
And lastly; with 92 B stroker pistons, and 69mm crank, I've seen on here that I can use a longer rod to make up the distance. Is this true, and what size should I use? 5.6, 5.7 ?
I've built a few 4 stroke mx race bike engine, but these are a much more complicated animal. So I hope I don't sound too ridiculous Thanks for reading. |
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modok Samba Member
Joined: October 30, 2009 Posts: 26743 Location: Colorado Springs
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Posted: Fri Sep 12, 2014 9:30 pm Post subject: |
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Stock piston is 39.5mm pin height,
mahle 92 B is 34.5mm
AA "B" is 35mm
You can do the addition and subtracteration.
Single relief case is ok for stock stroke IMO, just use a 26 or 21mm oil pump. too big an oil pump will overwhelm the little oil system.
May as well use them if the skirts aren't collapsed. Check that. Thinwalls warp easier but It'll last long enough you'll get tired of it and want more. |
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zbug Samba Member
Joined: December 28, 2013 Posts: 84 Location: nevada
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Posted: Fri Sep 12, 2014 10:02 pm Post subject: |
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So 5.6 rods or 5.7? or maybe some decking? this again is sort of a BS motor for me to learn on and be able to use up some extra parts that are lying around. I plan on building a lot more. so any help would greatly appreciated. Thanks modok.
The skirts are good. And ya, I'm sure I'll get tired of it soon |
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modok Samba Member
Joined: October 30, 2009 Posts: 26743 Location: Colorado Springs
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Posted: Fri Sep 12, 2014 10:09 pm Post subject: |
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5.6 length rod |
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Danwvw Samba Member
Joined: July 31, 2012 Posts: 8892 Location: Oregon Coast
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bugguy1967 Samba Member
Joined: January 16, 2008 Posts: 4338 Location: Los Angeles, CA 90016
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Posted: Fri Sep 12, 2014 10:39 pm Post subject: |
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You could use 5.4 rods. It'll just be real narrow. I've seen it done though. |
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Danwvw Samba Member
Joined: July 31, 2012 Posts: 8892 Location: Oregon Coast
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Posted: Fri Sep 12, 2014 10:41 pm Post subject: |
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bugguy1967 wrote: |
You could use 5.4 rods. It'll just be real narrow. I've seen it done though. |
What! _________________ 1960 Beetle And 1679cc DP W-100 & Dual Zeniths! |
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zbug Samba Member
Joined: December 28, 2013 Posts: 84 Location: nevada
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Posted: Fri Sep 12, 2014 10:44 pm Post subject: |
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the thing is , is that I haven't got the rods yet, and there less expensive than new P/C's, so I thought I would go that way instead. also, I didn't want to use those used thin walls later on a bigger motor. So I thought I would use them up.
I'm thinking 4340 h beams are good enough, but I'm have a hard time finding them in that size |
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Danwvw Samba Member
Joined: July 31, 2012 Posts: 8892 Location: Oregon Coast
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Posted: Fri Sep 12, 2014 11:05 pm Post subject: |
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That makes since! But it will likely burn a little oil not too bad. I don't know every time I have gone with used piston & cylinders I got an engine that smoked just a little. Man used stock rods are everywhere too. I bet I have 2 or 3 sets that I will never use. Probably I don't know what the core charge is for them? $25 maybe! But yeah, the H-beams would be the nicest rods though. The last ones I ordered were the AA I-Beams, pretty nice. A lot heaver though! These Scat may be ok: http://vwparts.aircooled.net/category-s/337.htm So are your cylinders short or are they long? Remember if the cylinders are long then your going to have to play with push-rod length too. _________________ 1960 Beetle And 1679cc DP W-100 & Dual Zeniths! |
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bugguy1967 Samba Member
Joined: January 16, 2008 Posts: 4338 Location: Los Angeles, CA 90016
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Posted: Sat Sep 13, 2014 8:40 am Post subject: |
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Yeah, seen it a few times. Actually, I saw that Ray Vallero builds his HP short strokes like that. The B pistons have a more modern skirt than the A pistons and they are lighter. I had an 1835 in my garage for many years that used B pistons, shortened cylinders and shortened pushrods. It had a shroud on it that was unmodified too. Only the cylinder tins were cut. SCAT spring loaded tubes have enough adjustability to fit. |
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zbug Samba Member
Joined: December 28, 2013 Posts: 84 Location: nevada
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Posted: Sat Sep 13, 2014 5:09 pm Post subject: |
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Oops crap. I meant to say 4340 I beams instead of H beams. Does anyone know where to get a 5.6 I beam? Thanks |
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zbug Samba Member
Joined: December 28, 2013 Posts: 84 Location: nevada
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Posted: Sat Sep 13, 2014 9:36 pm Post subject: |
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So
Last edited by zbug on Sat Sep 13, 2014 9:43 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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zbug Samba Member
Joined: December 28, 2013 Posts: 84 Location: nevada
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Posted: Sat Sep 13, 2014 9:42 pm Post subject: |
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Danwvw wrote: |
That makes since! But it will likely burn a little oil not too bad. I don't know every time I have gone with used piston & cylinders I got an engine that smoked just a little. Man used stock rods are everywhere too. I bet I have 2 or 3 sets that I will never use. Probably I don't know what the core charge is for them? $25 maybe! But yeah, the H-beams would be the nicest rods though. The last ones I ordered were the AA I-Beams, pretty nice. A lot heaver though! These Scat may be ok: http://vwparts.aircooled.net/category-s/337.htm So are your cylinders short or are they long? Remember if the cylinders are long then your going to have to play with push-rod length too. |
I thought the cylinder length was the same on both the A piston kit and the B piston kit, and just the pistons had a different pin height. And the P/C's I have rite now are like almost new, and have new rings. So I don't think I'll have that problem.
I still can't find an I beam set of rods that are 5.6 in length
Last edited by zbug on Sat Sep 13, 2014 9:47 pm; edited 2 times in total |
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zbug Samba Member
Joined: December 28, 2013 Posts: 84 Location: nevada
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Posted: Sat Sep 13, 2014 9:44 pm Post subject: |
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sorry about previous, previous post, I don't know what I'm doing yet. |
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bugguy1967 Samba Member
Joined: January 16, 2008 Posts: 4338 Location: Los Angeles, CA 90016
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Posted: Sat Sep 13, 2014 10:53 pm Post subject: |
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I don't believe they are common. If you want 5.6s to keep normal engine width, use H-beams. |
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Danwvw Samba Member
Joined: July 31, 2012 Posts: 8892 Location: Oregon Coast
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modok Samba Member
Joined: October 30, 2009 Posts: 26743 Location: Colorado Springs
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Posted: Sun Sep 14, 2014 5:37 pm Post subject: |
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I have never seen a 5.6 I beam rod. |
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bugguy1967 Samba Member
Joined: January 16, 2008 Posts: 4338 Location: Los Angeles, CA 90016
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Danwvw Samba Member
Joined: July 31, 2012 Posts: 8892 Location: Oregon Coast
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Posted: Mon Sep 15, 2014 8:23 pm Post subject: |
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I just saw a CIP-1 Ad for those Scat 5.6" I-Beams but it was in the "HOT VW" June 2005 issue! Better snap those above up! If you decide to build your "B" Piston Engine. No 5.6" rods now on the CIP-1 Web-Site! _________________ 1960 Beetle And 1679cc DP W-100 & Dual Zeniths! |
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zbug Samba Member
Joined: December 28, 2013 Posts: 84 Location: nevada
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Posted: Mon Sep 15, 2014 10:10 pm Post subject: |
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Thanks bugguy for the pm. I left a message. Its kinda late to call so hopefully I got em |
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