Cant find TDC?

Almiscarado · Posted: Sun Sep 14, 2014 4:16 pm Post subject: Cant find TDC?

Hi!

I am in the process of confirming that the timing of my 65 1200 bug is fine. I was reading that there should be a paint line on the pulley, but could not find it...
On this photo you can see the two notches on the rear of the crankshaft pulley, but no TDC mark. The notch on the rim of the distributor is also no aligned.

Can you please help me out? Should I put a pencil inside cylinder one to make note where TDC is?

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.

Any help would be really great Smile

As I got to change the oil, I also noticed I could see the cylinder fins from bellow. Do you think there is any missing tin from the following photos?

Many thanks in adavance for any help!

Sergio

Eric&Barb · Posted: Sun Sep 14, 2014 4:33 pm Post subject:

Look at rear rim of the pulley. Should be a faint dimple where the "0" is.
With that dimple aligned with crank case seam, and check that both #1 cylinder valve are closed. To take it one step more remove #1 spark plug and stick a stiff straw into there. With one hand turn crankshaft back and forth and with other hand feel the straw to find absolute TDC, just to make sure. Have found quite a few aftermarket pulleys with degree marks to be way off.

Rest looks good in images, but you need the seals on the spark plug cable to keep the cooling air in the shroud. Missing lower right cylinder tin and the downdraft boot from the tube coming from the oil filler. Missing thermostat and probably flaps and linkage.
Get a shot of the left lower rear of engine please. Plus one of the upper side of engine, but back up a tad to show the entire engine.
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Joey · Posted: Sun Sep 14, 2014 6:01 pm Post subject:

Your pulley looks like it has the 7.5* BTDC and the 10* BTDC marks. TDC would be approximately 5/8" to the left the 10" BTDC mark.
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Aussiebug · Posted: Sun Sep 14, 2014 11:24 pm Post subject:

Yep - one of the VW pulley styles (there are 4-5 different pulley mark sets) has just the 7.5 and 10BTDC marks with no TDC marks.

As stated above, the TDC position is to the left of those marks - actually 11mm left of the left (7.5) mark.

VW never used paint lines on the pulleys - they used notches (like yours above) and sometimes a TDC dimple on the rearmost rim.

Your 1200 engine should be timed to the right (10BTDC) mark.

You dont have any rubber sealing caps on the spark plug leads. That increased the cylinder heat temps by as much as 25f according to Bob Hoover (VW guru - now deceased).

The tinware around the cylinders (under the car) is all correct, but I can't see a thermostat under the right side cylinder fins. If that's missing, make sure you have the cooling flaps above the cylinders (if they are still there) wired open so there's no chance of them shutting off the cooling air to the heads and cylinders. You SHOULD have a thermostat for the best cooling.

You should have a rubber end cap on that road-tube coming down from the oil filler cap - it has a flat lipped shaped (like pursed thin lips) end which allows oil to drip out but stops air/crud entering - a simple one-way vavle.

There are holes in the tinware around the rear of the engine which are letting hot used cooling air from underneath to get up into the upper engine area where they are then drawn back into the fan, so your engine will be running a little hotter than it should.
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57BLITZ · Posted: Mon Sep 15, 2014 12:07 am Post subject: Re: Cant find TDC?

Almiscarado · Posted: Mon Sep 15, 2014 3:57 am Post subject:

I will only be with my new car next thursday, and will take those pictures by then. I had spotted the sparkplug cable seals where missing, but still did not check if the flaps and thermostat are there.
If they are, is there a good place to buy them online in europe?

Thanks very much for the valuable help Smile

Sergio

Almiscarado · Posted: Mon Sep 15, 2014 3:58 am Post subject: Re: Cant find TDC?

Almiscarado · Posted: Mon Sep 15, 2014 4:29 am Post subject:

Almiscarado · Posted: Mon Sep 15, 2014 4:31 am Post subject:

I should make a list of all that is missing (with your help...)

Thanks once again,

Sergio

Jody '71 · Posted: Mon Sep 15, 2014 4:48 am Post subject:

Yep, in that pic you can vaguely see the notch in the distb. body for the #1 mark where the rotor should be pointing when at TDC for #1 cylinder. But in the pic he may have the engine rolled over to TDC for #2??? Only way to confirm is to roll the engine over again so that the rotor is pointing at the distb. mark and then check to see if the valves are closed on #1.

You're missing the lower right cylinder tin deflector plate, prob the same on the left side but maybe not. That plate will have a hole in it for the pre-heat pipe that the warm air hose for the oil bath attaches to.

Engine to body seal needs replacement. Also there is no grommet for the oil filler breather tube where it passes through the rear tin.

Engine looks pretty clean underneath!! Do get new plug cables that have the seals on them for the cylinder tin covers. You're losing a lot of cooling air without them.

More engine pics please!!!!
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Eric&Barb · Posted: Mon Sep 15, 2014 7:41 am Post subject:

Missing seals on lower ends of the fresh air tubes.

Missing spark plug wire clips in rear of fan shroud.

Missing preheat tube and rubber grommet for where the hose passes thru rear tin.

All of the above holes rob the engine of cooling air...

Fuel line needs to be run under the left fresh air tube and hung by a hanger bracket on left side of fan shroud. OG hanger is nearly impossible to find today. You could make one pretty easy and use a piece of rubber fuel line between bracket and metal fuel line to prevent rubbing thru.

http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=228916

Check that the rubber grommet in the front tin is still there around the metal fuel line and give that line a jiggle now and then. If when you jiggle it and hear the metal line rattle against the front engine tin, it will all too soon saw thru the metal line.....
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Eric&Barb · Posted: Mon Sep 15, 2014 8:22 am Post subject:

Looks like the distributor vacuum line is disconnected from the carb.

You might be able to get a lot of parts from Brazil, or Europe. Check your local VW swap meets or VW clubs for connections.

At worse make a big list of parts and have them shipped from the USA.

Yes the engine will work with distributor turned, BUT if the distributor has a retarded #3 position and it is set for #1 position then all other three cylinder will fire to far in advance and cause engine overheat problem.
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Almiscarado · Posted: Mon Sep 15, 2014 11:27 am Post subject:

Is this piece of tin that I am missing under the cylinders? Is it possible to install ir without removing them?

Lower Cylinder Air Deflector Plate, Upright Engines, 10mm Head Studs, 40hp-1600cc Upright Engines, Each, 311-119-317A

http://vwparts.aircooled.net/Lower-Cylinder-Air-De...m?CartID=6

Eric&Barb · Posted: Mon Sep 15, 2014 12:49 pm Post subject:

No.

You are looking for #8 in the below diagram and the right hand one for the other side. See image below:

40 HP engine tin is shorter for those pieces. As shown in below image:

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Eric&Barb · Posted: Mon Sep 15, 2014 12:52 pm Post subject:

Here is a much later 1600 version in situ, with later dog leg style of downdraft tube:

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Eric&Barb · Posted: Mon Sep 15, 2014 12:55 pm Post subject:

Would be good to have an image of the intake manifold where it contacts the head. Image shot looking as straight forward as possible and down at same elevation as the contact point. That way can make sure it is a 40 HP engine or heavily modified 40 HP to later bigger size.

Just found the image that shows difference:

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KTPhil · Posted: Mon Sep 15, 2014 1:43 pm Post subject:

Jody '71 · Posted: Mon Sep 15, 2014 1:47 pm Post subject:

Eric&Barb · Posted: Mon Sep 15, 2014 1:56 pm Post subject:

Almiscarado · Posted: Wed Sep 17, 2014 6:26 am Post subject:

Hi everyone, and thanks for the really valuable information.
I still did not have the time to be at my father garage to take more photos, but so far these are the parts I need:

A - tinware under the cylinder - left and right - can this be installed with engine on?

B - downdraft boot from the tube coming from the oil filler

C - sparkplug wire seals

D - seals on lower ends of the fresh air tubes.
E - preheat tube
F - airintake lid ?
G - Rubber seal on base of engine tin

Apart from all these, I will check if the thermostat is there and if the flaps are present tommorow.

The metal tube that comes from the gas tank also needs a rubber element when it enters the engine compartment. Do not know what part number can that be...

Am I missing anything?

Best regards,

SErgio


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