Another CV orientation thread

blackglasspirate · Samba Member Joined: June 24, 2006 Posts: 1612

Hi all,
I've read through numerous threads and websites about the correct orientation of the inner/outer races and ball cage, but am still not clear because these CVs I have seem to be a little different. They are GKN from Van-Cafe, but only have on line on the outer hub (instead of 3 on one side and 1 on the other), and one side of the outer hub is not flat, like most other CVs I've seen. I tried to compare with the CVs that were on there already but they were EMPI and don't have the same features.

Here's a picture of both CVs. The one on the right is how they both came assembled from Van-Cafe. The side facing up is supposedly what's supposed to be facing away from the axle. Does that look correct?

Also, does anyone know if it's ok to mix RedLine CV-2 with the standard gray grease that comes with the CVs?

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.

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dobryan · Posted: Mon Sep 15, 2014 7:28 am Post subject: Re: Another CV orientation thread

blackglasspirate · Samba Member Joined: June 24, 2006 Posts: 1612

Hrmm, well I think I only have enough Redline left for maybe one side (hopefully). I was planning on putting a little on each and filling the rest with the regular stuff but I guess that's not an option. I thought I had more left, but I was wrong and can't find it locally.
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'87 Vanagon GL Westfalia
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gears · Posted: Mon Sep 15, 2014 11:37 am Post subject:

http://www.van-cafe.com/home/van/page_16_9/cv_joint_maintenence.html

Do NOT mix grease types.
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9.36 @ 146 in '86 Hot & Sticky
'90 Syncro Westy SVX
'87 Syncro GL 2.5
https://guardtransaxle.com

blackglasspirate · Samba Member Joined: June 24, 2006 Posts: 1612

I definitely won't do it then. Which end of the axle has more strain on it? I'll put the redline on that side and regular grease on the other.
Anyone have any comments on the orientation of the CVs in the picture?
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'87 Vanagon GL Westfalia
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Jon_slider · Posted: Mon Sep 15, 2014 12:45 pm Post subject:

clocking your CVs is free, directions here
http://www.outfrontmotorsports.com/cv_assembly.htm

> The side facing up is supposedly what's supposed to be facing away from the axle. Does that look correct?

yes

this is what wrong looks like

gears · Posted: Mon Sep 15, 2014 1:28 pm Post subject:

Thanks, Jon .. Could you please clarify below ..

".. and the outer ring oriented properly, with single groove towards axle end"

Shouldn't it say, "single groove toward flange end" ? .. (as shown in the photo)?
_________________
aka Pablo, Geary
9.36 @ 146 in '86 Hot & Sticky
'90 Syncro Westy SVX
'87 Syncro GL 2.5
https://guardtransaxle.com

Jon_slider · Posted: Mon Sep 15, 2014 2:17 pm Post subject:

Syncro Jael · Posted: Mon Sep 15, 2014 2:24 pm Post subject:

Don't be thrown off with the Single Groove on some of the new Lobro CV's out there like the photos of the ones you have.

If the cv has the recess, that should go against the flanges with a paper gasket. My last set did not come with the paper gasket and when hot they will throw grease. I was lucky and kept an old one to make a pattern and cut some from gasket material.

It is interesting to note that when I purchased a CV alone and not the kit from Van Café it was like the old ones with (3)three rings on one end and (1)one ring on the other. Laughing

_________________
1987 Syncro Westfalia Hightop - NAHT
Subaru EJ25 Forged Frankenmotor, Triple Knob.
Jael = (Mountain Goat)

blackglasspirate · Samba Member Joined: June 24, 2006 Posts: 1612

That's strange about the gasket - I didn't know that and they never told me anything about it. I ordered the kit, so that lines up with what you got as well. I don't have any gasket for that, and I wonder why they would send it without one if it's going to fling grease when it's hot?
Either way, I've gotta get these on ASAP so I may have to go without a gasket and see how it works.

Thanks everyone for the advice.
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'87 Vanagon GL Westfalia
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FB: https://www.facebook.com/holidayatsee

Syncro Jael · Posted: Mon Sep 15, 2014 2:41 pm Post subject:

The one Jon is showing has the three/single rings on the side

You will notice that there is no recess on the cv that is against the flange.
If I remember correctly the ones that AutoZone sells have the gaskets with them. You could open a box and trace one for a pattern.

I just remember that mine threw some grease out once they got hot. But not very much.

I also just called Van Café and purchased (4)four new CV's and specifically asked for the (3)three ring and (1)one ring style.

NO PROBLEMS! SHIPPED TODAY! Laughing

_________________
1987 Syncro Westfalia Hightop - NAHT
Subaru EJ25 Forged Frankenmotor, Triple Knob.
Jael = (Mountain Goat)

blackglasspirate · Samba Member Joined: June 24, 2006 Posts: 1612

I wish I would have known that there were two different kinds shipped and I could request a certain one!
I've searched around for any parts store in the area with the gasket or a cv joint that may have one and can't find anything. I emailed Van-Cafe about it but I may end up having to put it on there without one and hope for the best. It seems weird that they would ship it without a gasket if one was required.
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Jon_slider · Posted: Mon Sep 15, 2014 3:52 pm Post subject:

An alternative
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?p=7364809&highlight=#7364809

blackglasspirate · Samba Member Joined: June 24, 2006 Posts: 1612

Well, I put them on last night - no gasket, after talking with Van-Cafe. We'll see how they run.

Unfortunately I stripped one of the brand new bolts while tightening. Not really sure how I did it (was using a torque wrench set at 33), but I guess I got off centered. I'll have to find a way to remove it and replace, but it's in there tight at the moment.
For whatever reason, the kit from Van-Cafe came with some hex bolts and some 12-point bolts. I'm not really sure why, but I only found out once I was under the van trying to screw them in. I actually partially stripped another 12-point because I was using a hex bit without knowing it was a 12-pt. Ugh.
Oh well...for now it's working, I'll just have to do something about the stripped bolts.
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'87 Vanagon GL Westfalia
IG: @holidayatsee
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Syncro Jael · Posted: Wed Sep 17, 2014 8:12 am Post subject:

Find a "Triple Square" to remove those 12 point bolts. I use this one to remove buggered ones.

And this one to install them. The extra length will get you out passed the rubber boot to stay aligned straight while applying the correct torque.

It is good to have a couple of these in the tool box and in the vehicle. Wink

_________________
1987 Syncro Westfalia Hightop - NAHT
Subaru EJ25 Forged Frankenmotor, Triple Knob.
Jael = (Mountain Goat)

Syncro Jael · Posted: Wed Sep 17, 2014 12:56 pm Post subject:

I just received my (4)four new Lobro joints. They all came with the star incorrect. The finish on the ball tracks is so rough that it's was difficult to get them apart.

I am going to clean the tracks up with some emery cloth and polish them up.
The left pic is how they came in the boxes. The right pic is the one I flipped the star over.

_________________
1987 Syncro Westfalia Hightop - NAHT
Subaru EJ25 Forged Frankenmotor, Triple Knob.
Jael = (Mountain Goat)

blackglasspirate · Samba Member Joined: June 24, 2006 Posts: 1612

That's strange that they come with the incorrect orientation - I wonder why? I need to get one of those long 12-point tools for sure. The one I have is short and stubby.

So far no grease is slinging around from lack of a gasket, but I'll check it again this weekend when I re-check the tightness on the bolts.
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Jon_slider · Posted: Thu Sep 18, 2014 6:54 pm Post subject:

Great details and links.

From the photo, it appears those joints are of the NON gasket type
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My Soapboxes: Inflation; Handling; Gearing; Decoupling; Swepco

Vanagon Nut · Last edited by Vanagon Nut on Sat Mar 26, 2016 7:30 pm; edited 1 time in total

Just bought 3 new GKN cv kits. AUDI/VW 302255
"GKN quality product made in Germany".
2 were assembled the same, [. edit. No! The ball cage in each is not positioned the same! ],
one wasn't. That one has the hub flipped with stars in wrong position. The 4th cv is an older new GKN spare.

To clarify for me...
The 3 new cvs have 3 grooves on one end, one on the other. The older cv has only one groove at one end.

Grooves aside, how does one know which way to orient the outer ring?
Or, does it even matter?

Of note, the newer GKN cvs are very tight. The older new one is not.
I'll post pics later. Am at my garage now.

Thanks.

Neil.
_________________
1981 Westy DIY 15º ABA

1988 West DIY 50º ABA

VE7TBN

Vanagon Nut · Posted: Sat Mar 26, 2016 7:12 pm Post subject: Re: Another CV orientation thread

New GKN. Incorrectly assembled according to what I recall of vancafe tutorial.
Stud shown an idea from moryob ( sp?) use it as a third hand to hang cv to outboard flange while longing up boot etc.

Old new GKN. It nearly fell apart! (So loose) I'd even put an arrow showing which way was out, according to vancafe tutorial but that was 6 or more years ago.

new GKN.

_________________
1981 Westy DIY 15º ABA

1988 West DIY 50º ABA

VE7TBN


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