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CogHill Autowerks
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PostPosted: Mon Sep 15, 2014 7:27 pm    Post subject: Vintage speed? Reply with quote

i know this forum mostly pertains to motors, but that is just one thing, what about brakes, suspension, transaxles? are there any other forums that deal more with of the "bigger" picture of vintage speed.

i just got my hands on a '64 Ghia and would like to build a period (as much as i can) correct "track day car" Think, the Ghia and Hans at the Nurbugring track in 1967.

Short of building a 356, what vintage speed parts are out there? im sure there is a crap ton of parts, i just don't know what to look for.


thanks for any and all help
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gimmesomeshelter
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PostPosted: Mon Sep 15, 2014 9:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

You can do several things.

Install PORSCHE 356 brakes.

Box trailing arms.

Add 356 sway bar.

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


Add camber compensator.

De-camber rear wheels.

Install period correct tires (Michelin XAS).

Re-inforce pan.

Weld up truss bar.

Cheers,

Paul
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henry roberts
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PostPosted: Mon Sep 15, 2014 10:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

bucket seats

alloy spacers on the bottom front trailing arms

koni or bilstien shocks

I'm not sure if it's 67 applicable or wanted for a track car but by 1970 a quicksteer kit (or a early steering box as it has a slightly quicker ratio)

weight reduction

quickshift kit or an aftermarket short throw shifter

bonnet tie downs

people were getting custom gears cut by the early 60's... IMO that means modern short gears are ok.

a ZF LSD was a factory option

front beam stiffeners (also a factory option)

for a rally influence a halda speedpilot and/or halda trip/twinmaster, a butlers map light and stopwatch/s/clocks.

basically anything you can think up and make is fair game as far as I'm concerned.
aka I'm going for period rally mods, so shortly (when I pull my finger out and make it) i'll have a fly off handbrake made out of modified 28PCI choke parts and a couple of custom bits.
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CogHill Autowerks
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 16, 2014 4:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

that's the stuff i'm looking for! my cut off date is 67, but im sure i could slide on the quicksteer kit.

i have thought about 356 brakes but they are stupid money..any other options?

anyone else have any ideas?
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Jacks
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 16, 2014 8:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Back in the day, when hardly any hot rod parts were available for VW (except for the rich kids), we would take two stock sway bars and weld the ends together, then trim the sway bar bushings to allow the doubled bars to fit in them. A smaller steering wheel as well. 356 seats bolted to VW bottom frames. We also would pack 36 hp flywheel shims under the axle snap ring on the differential to preload the spider gears, making a "poor man's posi". We also modified the front brake backing plates to allow fitting of 356 wheel cylinders, converting them to dual leading shoes. I can't remember what year shoes we used, but they were standard VW. Type 3 brakes in the rear. Spax or Koni shocks. Unload the rear torsion bars just a bit, with a Empi camber compensator. Wider 356 wheels and somewhat used road racing tires (illegal for street use... we put them on anyways) finished the chassis mods. Have fun.
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henry roberts
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PostPosted: Thu Sep 18, 2014 12:50 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

some inspiration

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


for reading try: http://www.shoptalkforums.com there are a couple of guys there racing ghias, more modern than you are looking for but I'm sure some stuff will translate... and they certainly make it sound fun.
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CogHill Autowerks
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PostPosted: Sun Sep 21, 2014 6:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

what about lowering the front? could you get drop spindles in 67? also motor bits, i have a 40hp case that is only a few months off from the build date of the ghia..but i have also thought about building a 1.3 or 1.5 with some vintage hop up parts..any thoughts on the motor?

im sure i could just do a search, but does any one know of any digital copies of 60's EMPI catalogs? i feel like this would help me out a lot..
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PostPosted: Mon Sep 22, 2014 12:12 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

CogHill Autowerks wrote:

im sure i could just do a search, but does any one know of any digital copies of 60's EMPI catalogs? i feel like this would help me out a lot..


Yes the search function is your friend...use it and you'll be everybody's. Wink

In the Stickies at the head of this "Vintage Speed" forum section you'll find a lot of reference material. This one answers your question about EMPI catalogs and a lot more:
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=325053
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CogHill Autowerks
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PostPosted: Mon Sep 22, 2014 12:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Alright, doing a Google search helped me find a 1967 EMPI catalog, i hope we can all be friends now..but im still a little lost on how they lowered the front of the car, did they pull a couple of the bars and compensate by stiffer shocks and a sway-bar? a big bag of sand? said F@&% it and didn't lower the car?

This should be the end of my questions..for now
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Erik G
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PostPosted: Mon Sep 22, 2014 1:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

if you look at the 67 empi catalog, you will see that none of the cars are lowered. That didnt happen until much later
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henry roberts
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PostPosted: Mon Sep 22, 2014 5:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

gute fahrt from Jan '64 the bottom left pic on the last page. Laughing

http://www.kaeferfriseure.de/upload/pdf/okrasa_rallye_kaefer_bericht_gf_64.pdf

early adjustable front end.
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RareAir
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PostPosted: Mon Sep 22, 2014 5:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Reverse the wheels, inside out. Boom, instant wider track
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RareAir
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PostPosted: Mon Sep 22, 2014 5:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

gimmesomeshelter wrote:
You can do several things.

Box trailing arms.

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.



What does this modification accomplish?
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CogHill Autowerks
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PostPosted: Mon Sep 22, 2014 7:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

boxing the trailing arms stiffens and strengthens them, under "high" G turns they will flex and then bend.

thank you Henry! you are little treasure chest of early racing parts info!!
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Kjell Roar
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 24, 2014 1:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

CogHill Autowerks wrote:
what about lowering the front?


As stated, VW didnt get lowered in the front. But maybe a little in the rear. The high front made it easier to handle well, I think. Is a thread about a 1300 racer here, he got some experience with what to do.

I know a guy who has been rallying VW's (and other cars) since the 60'ies, high front and lower in the rear was the standard.
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Robert Chambers
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 24, 2014 5:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I always thought the 1967 and 1968 Bugs with the rear anti sway bay sat lower than earlier year models? Anybody have information?
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CogHill Autowerks
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PostPosted: Thu Sep 25, 2014 2:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I understand that in rally you would want a standard or higher height vehicle..but i'm not build a rally car. I cant say that i have ever seen a Grand Prix or any GT car with a saggy a$$ and a jacked up nose. Logic would state that they knew they had to lower the car front and rear, it was just a question of how...

Henry has already posted a link to evidence of an adjustable front beam from 1964, although it looks very home made, they still lowered the front.
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Robert Chambers
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PostPosted: Thu Sep 25, 2014 3:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

My '56 Bug has an old school weld-on adjuster front beam. It was modified around 1970 by the PO.
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Kjell Roar
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PostPosted: Mon Sep 29, 2014 1:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

CogHill Autowerks wrote:
I understand that in rally you would want a standard or higher height vehicle..but i'm not build a rally car. I cant say that i have ever seen a Grand Prix or any GT car with a saggy a$$ and a jacked up nose. Logic would state that they knew they had to lower the car front and rear, it was just a question of how...

Henry has already posted a link to evidence of an adjustable front beam from 1964, although it looks very home made, they still lowered the front.


Look at this racing car, higher in the front Smile

And a good thread.
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cru62
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PostPosted: Mon Sep 29, 2014 4:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

CogHill Autowerks wrote:
Alright, doing a Google search helped me find a 1967 EMPI catalog, i hope we can all be friends now..but im still a little lost on how they lowered the front of the car, did they pull a couple of the bars and compensate by stiffer shocks and a sway-bar? a big bag of sand? said F@&% it and didn't lower the car?

This should be the end of my questions..for now


What about a Select-a-drop? Back in the late 60s they were the only way to drop the front of a T-1.

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


This one is a home-brew, but you get the idea. Weren't early 356s fitted with the same type of setup from the factory? Couldn't find a pic of that.

Here is an NOS Autohaus one-
Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


A buddy of mine graduated from 2 bags of cement in the spare tire well of his '67 bug back in '70/'71 to a select-a-drop when he saved up the dough. Surprisingly, it rode way better with the cement in the trunk than with the Select-a-drop.
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Last edited by cru62 on Mon Sep 29, 2014 4:29 pm; edited 1 time in total
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