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Replacing door pillar assembly, heater channel & rockers
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kiwighia68
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 17, 2014 1:48 am    Post subject: Replacing door pillar assembly, heater channel & rockers Reply with quote

I'm going to post as a photo essay the progress I made today with my car in the (vain?) belief that others may benefit from the expert help I have received.

BEFORE YOU PROCEED TO FOLLOW ANY OF THE PROCEDURES DETAILED HERE, PLEASE DO THE FOLLOWING:

1. GET YOUR SAFETY GEAR AND PROCEDURES IN ORDER. WE HAD A SAFE WORK GUIDE ON THE DOOR OF THE WORKSHOP. The work is undoubtedly dangerous in many ways as the chart suggests:

EDIT: Photo not clear so here is a better one:

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


2. READ THE WHOLE THREAD BEFORE YOU START: WE LEARNED AS WE WENT ALONG, AND IN HINDSIGHT WE MIGHT HAVE DONE THINGS DIFFERENTLY. LEARN FROM OUR MISHAPS AND THE PROBLEMS WE ENCOUNTERED.

I’m fortunate enough to have expert help with the restoration of my car. To my inexpert eye, the repairs to the right front fender, the door pillar behind it, and the usual culprits, the heater channel and rocker panel. The car had collision damage to the right front fender area from the fuel filler flap back towards and into the door pillar assembly, and the heater channel and rocker panel were obviously rusted through.

A plan of action could only be devised once the car had been “skinned” and media blasted to expose the damage. The following sequence of photographs shows the damage and gives a hint of the amount of repair work required.

Note the following:

[1] The door pillar assembly has been pushed back due to collision damage. Very superficial repairs have been done. The whole assembly needs to be replaced.
[2] The elbow piece is rusted through and needs to be replaced.
[3] The heater channel is rusted through and has a lot of body filler over holes in the steel. It needs to be replaced.
[4] The rocker panel is similarly rusted through and will have to be replaced.
[5] The steel panel in front of the elbow piece shows signs of rust – and will have to be repaired.
[6] Various smaller patches are also needed. I’ll show where those occurred.
[7] The outer part of the fender shows a prior repair, and a very poor one. I wanted to import a used part for the repair – from the fuel flap back to the door pillar – from the USA and Dan Storgaard was kind enough to offer me one for less than $100. However, Fedex quoted Dan $850 for the shipping, and when I enquired from the New Zealand side, Fedex quoted a significantly higher amount. So, the fender is going to have to be repaired locally. We’ll see how that goes later.

As I mentioned, I have expert help. Even if I wanted to do the work myself, I’m just not qualified to do so. Moreover, the New Zealand authorities require that the repair work be certified by a properly certificated welder and signed off by an official known as a certifier. Every step of the process has to be documented with the addition of supporting evidence such as photographs and invoices.

The expert is Phillip Broadbent, a panel-beater of considerable experience, and a certified welder. In fact, everyone in his workshop is a certified welder, except for the painter guy.

Here are some a views of the damaged areas:

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The quality (or lack thereof) of the prior repairs is apparent here:
Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


Here's the main problem: We have to replace both the door pillar assembly and the heater channel and its rocker panel. Should we cut both of them out with the car suitably braced, or do we remove and replace them one after the other? If so, which one goes first? More in my next post.
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Last edited by kiwighia68 on Sat Sep 20, 2014 9:45 pm; edited 3 times in total
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kiwighia68
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 17, 2014 2:04 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

We needed to work out what the best sequence would be for the repairs. Phillip pointed out that both the door pillar assembly and the heater channel are structural pieces and that it would be unwise to remove both at the same time. He suggested that we replace the heater channel first, and the door pillar assembly last. It made perfect sense to me.

The door pillar assembly (several separate parts welded together) is already braced by being attached to several other parts of the body. It extends into the roof pillar (A-Pillar?). It is braced on the inside against the dash and lower down against the inside of the wheel arch. There is additional strengthening due the shape of the inverted V of the body which fits flush onto the chassis. So we agreed to leave the door pillar in place to provide stability and shape during the replacement of the heater channel.

Step1 was to put some bracing in place. We didn’t do cross-bracing to the other side because we didn’t think it necessary.

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


Step 2 was to cut out the elbow piece and heater channel as well as the rocker panel. Here are some photos of the cutting process and the rot the removal revealed, and some to show the sorry looking car without her skirts.

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


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The rot under the elbow piece:

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


The next step was to do some repairs that became necessary once we could see under the rot. I'll deal with that in a following post.
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TheFop
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 17, 2014 2:26 am    Post subject: Re: Replacing door pillar assembly, heater channel & roc Reply with quote

kiwighia68 wrote:


As I mentioned, I have expert help. Even if I wanted to do the work myself, I’m just not qualified to do so. Moreover, the New Zealand authorities require that the repair work be certified by a properly certificated welder and signed off by an official known as a certifier. Every step of the process has to be documented with the addition of supporting evidence such as photographs and invoices.

Just for clarity I checked with the authorities on this and you don't have to be a certified welder but you do need to be able to demonstrate that you can weld, however being certified covers that off pretty nicely.

Emiko is making great progress and its interesting to see how similar the rust is to mine, I'll be back into mine soon as the floor pans are nearly finished and I am also talking to Dan about some parts but will need to check shipping, $1000 for a fender is insane! I recently imported 3 x1km drums of specialist cable weighing about 180kg from the US for about that.
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kiwighia68
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 17, 2014 2:41 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Step 3 was to cut and weld in place several patch pieces where the exposed metal showed severe rust damage. It needs to be stressed here that every piece takes time and effort to prepare, and that there are just no shortcuts. Every piece, however small, and whether it will eventually be out of sight or not, gets the same attention to detail. For example, when a piece has been welded in place, the welds are first ground down with an angle grinder, and then the weld area is smoothened further with a narrow belt sander. Here is an example of just one piece that was given "the full treatment", no shortcuts:

Before: it looks rather innocuous:

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


Repair piece prepared (by Phillip) - I was too sick today to be of any help:

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


Repair welded in place: (I know it's a MIG welder now - I didn't last week.)

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


Next comes grinding the welds down:

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Then some sanding with a narrow belt sander:

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


Before and after, outside and inside:

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Step 4 was to lift the heater channel into position. It’s a tight fit and a certain amount of force is required to beat the replacement part into position. That’s the tricky part: making it fit. (It seems to me that no two Ghias are exactly the same, and the result is that replacement parts need to be shaped to fit the individual car – Once I realised that I got over my apprehension that every replacement part was defective, or that my car was beyond saving.)

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


A certain amount of force has to be used. Some personal, some mechanical:

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


Step 5 is welding. Spot welding at the elbow piece, and MIG welding to finish off. That will come tomorrow.

Comments and advice appreciated, thanks guys.
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 17, 2014 2:46 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Added to the "How To" Sticky. Smile
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 17, 2014 9:26 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Awesome post Kiwi... I feel your pain. I believe we had the same previous owners at one point...LOL Rolling Eyes Looking great!
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kiwighia68
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 17, 2014 11:21 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

It's time to deal with a few technical and practical matters before I set out for the day's repair work.

First: The enemy here is rust. It is not an adversary you can fight half-heartedly. In fact, it's not even a battle you can fight as a defensive war. No, you have to go on the offensive and actively look for it and then take appropriate steps to destroy it. And that has been our mission. We look for it behind old paint, between steel panels, everywhere where the parts are now exposed due to other parts having been cut out.

It's not pretty, but I feel we are gaining ground all round the car.

Second: Before any welding can be done - of the heater channel - we have to ensure a proper fit. Phillip muscled the channel with the integrated elbow piece into position, and then clamped it in place. What we have to do this morning is to ensure the fit is exactly right. And then, to be doubly certain we'll have to put the body back on the pan/chassis, to make sure the holes for the fasteners match precisely. If the door pillar had not been pushed back in the collision, we would probably have put the doors back on as well - for additional checking and finer positioning.

Strange thing: My Bentley Manual doesn't show a replacement sequence for a heater channel. I think they thought the car would last 10 years or so and then be crushed.

Third: The weld areas have to be prepared for optimum bonding between the metals, which means more sanding and the use of weld-through primer. I understand that the primer also facilitates the welding process by preventing "overspill".

Here we go: Off to battle. Photos and a commentary on the day's action to follow in about 14 hours.
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 17, 2014 12:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Fantastic work and write-up as usual.

I truly appreciate the details and photos that accompany the tutorial. It gives a very realistic perspective, and moreover, it isn't just a before/after shot..but all the steps leading up to, during, and after that make it a complete summary.

Can't wait to see the next installment. Smile
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 17, 2014 12:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Nice job, I am right there with you. Looking good.
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kiwighia68
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 17, 2014 4:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Back on the job: The damage to the door pillar assembly has made the fitting and lining up of the heater channel unbelievably difficult. The problem was that the collision damage had been inflicted from the front right and pushed the door pillar assembly inwards and back. No attempt had been made to line the panels and parts up correctly when the repairs were done (presumably in Japan, where the car comes from).

We tried everything we could to push, beat, pull and cajole the heater channel and elbow piece into line for a proper fit, but we had no luck. The door pillar assembly was unyielding and just wouldn't give in the direction we wanted. It was bent and twisted and very strong.

Beating the steel back into its original shape:

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


It wasn't working. There's only so much you can do with blunt force.

So, as a final resort, we placed the body back on the pan. The left side fit perfectly - all the bolts through the chassis/floor pan and the heater channel. We manipulated the right side heater channel into position on the chassis.

And the right side fit too.

Next we stabilised everything and cut the crocked door pillar assembly out. The plan is to replace it with the used part I have from Dan Storgaard. More drilling out of spot welds.

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


The replacement door pillar assembly needed some patches of its own. This is what it looked like in its repaired form, with the damaged part for comparison next to it.

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


Door pillar assembly in place, ready for welding. The whole corner looks different.

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


It's been a very long day for me. That said, there are few pleasures in life as great as watching someone who knows what they are doing at work.

We'll be welding tomorrow.
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PostPosted: Thu Sep 18, 2014 6:37 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Nice work, Chris. I'm glad to see that piece put to good use!
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kiwighia68
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PostPosted: Thu Sep 18, 2014 9:46 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

NWGhiaGuy wrote:
Nice work, Chris. I'm glad to see that piece put to good use!


I can see what you're doing, Dan. You're "paying forward". Now I feel inspired to do the same.
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PostPosted: Thu Sep 18, 2014 9:51 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

kiwighia68 wrote:
NWGhiaGuy wrote:
Nice work, Chris. I'm glad to see that piece put to good use!


I can see what you're doing, Dan. You're "paying forward". Now I feel inspired to do the same.


So between the two of us, we can help get Dean's ghia back on the road too, right? I never thought of the shortage of stuff in NZ until talking with you guys. Keep up the good work!!
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kiwighia68
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PostPosted: Thu Sep 18, 2014 10:16 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Those who know me, know that I always preach preparation, execution and evaluation in my teaching. This part is the evaluation of the replacement of the door pillar assembly thus far. From what Phillip says, the welding, although a special skill and very technical, is (for him at least) the easy part).

After nearly a day long struggle to fit the heater channel and elbow piece into position, we changed tack. There was too much damage to the door pillar assembly to make everything line up. So we attacked the problem from the other side: The door pillar assembly had to go in first.

Preparation:

1. We bolted the body back onto the chassis, with the new heater channel and elbow piece in place. We only loosely fastened the bolts and screws to allow for a little give and movement between parts.

2. We took measurements across and on the diagonal between the fastening points between the chassis and the body (on the new heater channels and elbow pieces) on the two sides and lined the car up to within about a 2mm fit.

3. We had already prepared the replacement door pillar assembly by sandblasting and by preparing repair patches - as detailed in the photographs.

4. The precise cut - off with the old and on with the new - position was determined by Phillip. As the photos show, that position was just below the bottom corner of the A-pillar (or, if you will, at the right bottom corner of the windshield).

Execution:

5. I drilled out spotwelds and made some other small cuts. Phillip came in and made the cut at the A-pillar along a very straight predetermined line.

6. Phillip then made the identical cut on the replacement piece and matched the new piece and the car to each other. See photos above. There was a perfect match.

7. Now to welding, which will be added later with photos.

Evaluation (preliminary):

The course we followed was determined by 2 main factors: One, my car was off the pan; so we had room to experiment. Two, the door pillar assembly was found to be too badly damaged to allow the heater channel and elbow piece to be installed first. We were therefore allowed to change our sequence.

The lesson we learned was this: If you're merely doing a "rust" repair or replacement of the heater channel for rust reasons, you probably don't need the car off the chassis. Appropriate bracing will still be necessary - and there are examples of that in other threads. The same, it seems to me, would apply to the replacement of the door pillar assembly.

Let there be no doubt that replacing the heater channel and the door pillar assembly is a big repair. While there are some Sambanista who are qualified to tackle such a repair on their own, I would recommend getting professional help.
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kiwighia68
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PostPosted: Thu Sep 18, 2014 10:21 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

NWGhiaGuy wrote:
kiwighia68 wrote:
NWGhiaGuy wrote:
Nice work, Chris. I'm glad to see that piece put to good use!


I can see what you're doing, Dan. You're "paying forward". Now I feel inspired to do the same.


So between the two of us, we can help get Dean's ghia back on the road too, right? I never thought of the shortage of stuff in NZ until talking with you guys. Keep up the good work!!


Dean and I are paying forward, although for now it's just between the two of us. By the way, the taillight has arrived. Thanks, as always, I appreciate your help.
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PostPosted: Fri Sep 19, 2014 1:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

NWGhiaGuy wrote:
kiwighia68 wrote:
NWGhiaGuy wrote:
Nice work, Chris. I'm glad to see that piece put to good use!


I can see what you're doing, Dan. You're "paying forward". Now I feel inspired to do the same.


So between the two of us, we can help get Dean's ghia back on the road too, right? I never thought of the shortage of stuff in NZ until talking with you guys. Keep up the good work!!


All help is much appreciated especially getting much needed parts which just aren't available here.
Chris and I meet reasonably frequently to discuss all things Ghia and exchange notes and we often share shipping costs or materials.
Its great to have somebody doing the same thing as you locally and Chris is a top bloke to.
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kiwighia68
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PostPosted: Sat Sep 20, 2014 9:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

We're making progress but slowly. I have to get the body back on with doors and lids in place this week. I want (and need) to start prepping for paint next week - time and money running out at pace at the moment.

That said, I'm buoyed by the visible progress taking place under my nose.

Lining up the body with the replacement parts in place is, as they say in these parts, a "bugger". While everything lines up nicely in the horizontal plane - the chassis takes care of that, lining up the doors in the vertical frame is difficult and I think it's going to take the best part of a day or two.

Does anyone have the precise measurement of the quarter window gap at the door, please, please? We need it for tomorrow, and although I thought we could use the quarter window pillar (with the thickness of the rubber added, if necessary), my pillar is at the chrome-platers or the polisher.

I haven't been idle either, and was set the task of removing the paint from the front hood by hand.

Emiko's original colour emerged from a thick layer of blue.

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.

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PostPosted: Sun Sep 21, 2014 12:01 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Not sure if these are the measurements you need? most other things should be pretty stable.
The door gap measurements are taken from the very extreme tip of the rear quater to the top inner hinge screw and bottom inner hinge screw.
The width is referenced from the inner face of the rear quarter again (where you mount the seat belts) at the tip.
Hope this makes sense.

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.

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PostPosted: Sun Sep 21, 2014 5:13 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

kiwighia68 wrote:
We're making progress but slowly. I have to get the body back on with doors and lids in place this week. I want (and need) to start prepping for paint next week - time and money running out at pace at the moment.

That said, I'm buoyed by the visible progress taking place under my nose.

Lining up the body with the replacement parts in place is, as they say in these parts, a "bugger". While everything lines up nicely in the horizontal plane - the chassis takes care of that, lining up the doors in the vertical frame is difficult and I think it's going to take the best part of a day or two.

Does anyone have the precise measurement of the quarter window gap at the door, please, please? We need it for tomorrow, and although I thought we could use the quarter window pillar (with the thickness of the rubber added, if necessary), my pillar is at the chrome-platers or the polisher.

I haven't been idle either, and was set the task of removing the paint from the front hood by hand.

Emiko's original colour emerged from a thick layer of blue.

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


Get yourself some of these: (available on trademe)
https://www.google.co.nz/search?q=3m+paint+strippi...B400%3B400
Miles easier and quicker than sandpaper.
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PostPosted: Sun Sep 21, 2014 8:15 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

kiwighia68 wrote:
Emiko's original colour emerged from a thick layer of blue.

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.

Have you considered the possibility that the hood may have been replaced at some point with one from another color donor car?




Wink Just messing with your head because I know that the final color choice has been something that has given you great pause for thought.
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