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johnnypan
Samba Member
Joined: October 24, 2007
Posts: 7431
Location: sackamenna
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 Posted: Thu Sep 18, 2014 2:09 pm Post subject: |
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.040 isn't too bad..
If its thrust bearing wear its ok to run for a while or even longer if you don't have the scheckels to rebuild it
If the thrust bearing is walking in the cae you might as well run it as well.the case will need line boring either way...if you do it now or down the road a bit
If the gland nut is loose you'll know it soon enough,that is agenerally a noisy and notable failure..
get it running and see what happens,odds are you'll be happy with what you have,and wonr need to go into the engine for quite awhile |
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Gringo Loco Volador
Samba Member
Joined: September 17, 2014
Posts: 18
Location: USA
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| Posted: Thu Sep 18, 2014 5:53 pm Post subject: |
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Well,
I will think on it some more while I finish up the electrical stuff. I am torn between doing it now or trying to run it for a few miles. It is in a bad place for moving by hand where I built it. I was hoping to have power when it came time to move off of my back porch.  And, I still have to take it to the Sheriff's office and pay them to look at the vin number and title. It's a Kentucky thing.
If I run into other problems along the startup way, I will probably tackle the job myself. It is just bad working conditions where I am at, and I have zero experience with it. However, I was a maintenance mechanic and electrician in my younger days in a foundry, heat treating plant and other manufacturing. I have a lot of tools. Undoubtedly there will be some that I will not have though, I am sure. 
Today I got the new wheels and tires on it and the rest of the lighting that is not going on bulkheads. It had been on jack stands for a long time. If I knew how, I would post a picture or two for your amusement.
This is my last big project that I am planning to do. In January I rode my customized Yamaha XT 250 as far as Nicaragua in Central America. Then my heart gave me trouble and I had to stop the trip and have emergency heart surgery in Managua. I donated the bike to a missionary down there and flew back home after I recouperated. Two wheels was just too much work for an old fart in my physical condition, so that is part of the reason I got the trike. I am planning to ride it back down there, and possibly as far south as you can go by road from here, to southern Panama, and back. LOL So, the engine will have to be in top condition. It will get repaired, rebuilt or replaced before it is said and done.
Have a good one!
Steve |
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Gringo Loco Volador
Samba Member
Joined: September 17, 2014
Posts: 18
Location: USA
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| Posted: Thu Sep 18, 2014 6:40 pm Post subject: |
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I have another question. Please excuse my ignorance.
Is there any reason why the clutch should not operate with the engine off?
When I got the trike there was no provision for a gear shifter or a clutch cable. So, I educated myself and installed a gear shifter, and replaced the cable for the clutch with a CNC slave cylinder. The slave cylinder operates, yet this evening when I got the wheels on and sat it back on the ground, I tried the clutch and it has no effect moving the release lever with the slave cylinder.
How far does that release lever need to travel before releasing the clutch?
Thanks again!
Steve |
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Harleyelf
Samba Member
Joined: April 23, 2009
Posts: 1572
Location: Appleton, WI
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| Posted: Thu Sep 18, 2014 9:20 pm Post subject: |
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That's actually a really good question. The clutch operates by a lever mounted on the transmission, so if the transmission is not installed the throw out bearing is not in contact with the clutch plate.
As others have said, .040 is a lot but not automatic engine suicide.
I would try taking the flywheel off and measuring the three thrust washers under it, then replacing them with a set that measures .034 thicker. If your problem was just that someone didn't set up the motor properly before letting it sit in the garage, you might not have bad damage yet. A Harley mechanic can be quite competent with pistons and valves but not fully understand the crankshaft spacing of a VW. |
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Max Welton
Samba Member
Joined: May 19, 2003
Posts: 10697
Location: Black Forest, CO
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flyboy161
Samba Member
Joined: December 26, 2009
Posts: 2091
Location: Perry, GA
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| Posted: Fri Sep 19, 2014 12:59 am Post subject: |
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| Gringo Loco Volador wrote: |
If I run into other problems along the startup way, I will probably tackle the job myself. It is just bad working conditions where I am at, and I have zero experience with it. However, I was a maintenance mechanic and electrician in my younger days in a foundry, heat treating plant and other manufacturing. I have a lot of tools. Undoubtedly there will be some that I will not have though, I am sure.
Steve |
Steve, given your background as MX mechanic and based on the fact you can convert a transaxle from cable to hydraulic clutch, I believe you can just about do everything yourself.
As for tools the list is small surprisingly. A small torque wrench that reads 5-75 foot lbs. Metric sockets (8, 10, 13, 14, 15, 17, 27, 30 and 36mm) with matching metric wrenches, feeler gauges, and a crescent wrench (10 or 12") . And by the way, 13mm is 1/2", 14 is 9/16" and 17 is 11/16". A rubber mallet, a common screwdriver and a good floor jack, the kind with the 6" round plate on it. I'm betting most, if not all of these, you already have. If you don't have them they are usually in stock at Sears. And finally, you need that idiot manual. With these tools you can do anything and everything on that motor.
And finally, there is a link here: http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=6
That tells you how to post a picture.
_________________
My father's 1970 Beetle-
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=603879
The 1964...Diamond in the rough
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=612776
My 1958 Morocco Bug-
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=611483 |
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Volks Wagen
Samba Member
Joined: February 13, 2013
Posts: 2926
Location: Germany
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| Posted: Fri Sep 19, 2014 3:51 am Post subject: |
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| flyboy161 wrote: |
| Gringo Loco Volador wrote: |
If I run into other problems along the startup way, I will probably tackle the job myself. It is just bad working conditions where I am at, and I have zero experience with it. However, I was a maintenance mechanic and electrician in my younger days in a foundry, heat treating plant and other manufacturing. I have a lot of tools. Undoubtedly there will be some that I will not have though, I am sure.
Steve |
Steve, given your background as MX mechanic and based on the fact you can convert a transaxle from cable to hydraulic clutch, I believe you can just about do everything yourself.
As for tools the list is small surprisingly. A small torque wrench that reads 5-75 foot lbs. Metric sockets (8, 10, 13, 14, 15, 17, 27, 30 and 36mm) with matching metric wrenches, feeler gauges, and a crescent wrench (10 or 12") . And by the way, 13mm is 1/2", 14 is 9/16" and 17 is 11/16". A rubber mallet, a common screwdriver and a good floor jack, the kind with the 6" round plate on it. I'm betting most, if not all of these, you already have. If you don't have them they are usually in stock at Sears. And finally, you need that idiot manual. With these tools you can do anything and everything on that motor.
And finally, there is a link here: http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=6
That tells you how to post a picture. |
And a big feckin breaker bar for the 36mm socket cos its 250ish ft/lbs torque. And as we've mentioned if you pull the flywheel you might find it's not shimmed right and also you'll see the clutch mechanism so that'll answer a few questions. Fair play to you for going on such a trip. Best of luck for the next one.
_________________
1973 1303 with AB-motor - sporadic
reconstruction as time permits, 1986 ex-Bundeswehr Doka - on the road again.
I'm definitely, probably, the worlds greatest lover.
Aithníonn ciaróg ciaróg eile. |
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Gringo Loco Volador
Samba Member
Joined: September 17, 2014
Posts: 18
Location: USA
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| Posted: Fri Sep 19, 2014 5:23 am Post subject: |
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Good morning Fellows,
After pondering on this situation again last night, I have pretty much decided to tear into it myself. I may be able to find a local mechanic to give me a hand or advice. I might even get lucky and find someone with a shop that we can use to tear into the engine after I pull it out of the trike.
The engine and trnsaxle are together and have been since I have had it. I do not know why the clutch is not releasing. I can imagine all sorts of things. It is entirely possible that someone swapped out the rebuilt engine for a junker while it was unattended in the barn for over 4 years. Strange I know, but strange things happen in the real world. If this was done, they probably didn't install the clutch or something.
I was going to disconnect the slave cylinder and check it by moving the arm by hand, but in my mind it should not have to move the full travel distance to disengage. Isn't that correct?
I have not done a compression test, but I can feel the compression when rotating the engine.
About the pictures. Is there a location on the samba site for pics of trikes? If not, which gallery is OK to put them in? I do not want to do anything to get in trouble on here. I like chatting with you all!
Have a good one!
Steve |
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johnnypan
Samba Member
Joined: October 24, 2007
Posts: 7431
Location: sackamenna
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| Posted: Fri Sep 19, 2014 6:04 am Post subject: |
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| Good decision,for reliability its important to inspect and repair where needed.Line up a clean work area, a decent bench and parts storage spot and go after it...post up pictures on this thread of your sled and the engine as you build it |
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Volks Wagen
Samba Member
Joined: February 13, 2013
Posts: 2926
Location: Germany
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| Posted: Fri Sep 19, 2014 11:14 am Post subject: |
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| Gringo Loco Volador wrote: |
About the pictures. Is there a location on the samba site for pics of trikes? If not, which gallery is OK to put them in? |
when u go to add photo, under category u could put the pics in 'kit cars' or 'other... vws' I'd suppose. That's where a lot of folks seem to put theirs:
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/album_search.php?search_keywords=trike&show_results=summary
_________________
1973 1303 with AB-motor - sporadic
reconstruction as time permits, 1986 ex-Bundeswehr Doka - on the road again.
I'm definitely, probably, the worlds greatest lover.
Aithníonn ciaróg ciaróg eile. |
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williamM
Samba Member
Joined: August 07, 2008
Posts: 4333
Location: southwest Arizona
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| Posted: Sat Sep 20, 2014 12:28 pm Post subject: |
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I've seen clutch disc- "weld"- rust themselves to the flywheel. They can usually be separated by throttle and brakes with the pedal depressed.
When you have the flywheel off it will be easy to check the up and down- side to side movement of the thrust bearing by wedging it (the crank) with a wood dowel- or I use a paint brush handle. should not be any movement of that bearing, or your case will need a lign bore.
_________________
some days I get up and just sit and think. Some days I just sit.
opinion untempered by fact is ignorance.
Don't step in any! |
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Gringo Loco Volador
Samba Member
Joined: September 17, 2014
Posts: 18
Location: USA
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| Posted: Sun Sep 21, 2014 4:25 pm Post subject: |
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I took the engine out today. Measured the end play at the flywheel the best that I could with the calipers. I know it is not accurate, but close. It read .030". I removed the flywheel and there are three shims there that look like new, that equal about .030" thick altogether.
With the flywheel and shims out I measured the shaft play and it was about .060" so I guess it makes semse. That is excessive, right? How much should it be without shims or flywheel?
The clutch was new, but rusty from it's time in the poor storage conditions. There is a new throwout bearing and bushing on the transaxle clutch arm shaft. The pressure plate does not look new though and it has one bent finger.
Can anyone tell me how much the throwout bearing should have to move to properly operate the clutch? I ask because the clutch was not releasing, and I am wondering it if is a faulty pressure plate or if there is not enough travel with the hydraulic cylinder. I set it up with the arm on the transaxle having no pull at all on it when the pedal is not depressed. Is that correct?
Lastly, are any of you familiar with a VW mechanic in London, Kentucky named Greg Southerland? It is a long ride over there from here, but if he has a good reputation I will take it over there and let him have a look at it. It may have actually been rebuilt and needs cleaning and checking of everything. I think it will be worth the day trip and shop labor to at least crack it open and have a look. My work space is not very good, but removing the engine was about the easiest engine removal I have ever done. It reminded me of the Rotax's I use to install and remove from powered parachutes a few years ago. 
Thanks in advance!
Steve |
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flyboy161
Samba Member
Joined: December 26, 2009
Posts: 2091
Location: Perry, GA
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| Posted: Sun Sep 21, 2014 4:52 pm Post subject: |
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First of all good job! See, it wasn't that hard was it?
Another god way to measure end play is with a feeler gauge.. Use a long bolt in one of the upper mount holes. Lock it in place with a nut. Place a straight edge across the flywheel and pull out on the flywheel. Take another nut and run it down to where the flywheel touches the straight edge. Push in on the flywheel and using the feeler gauge measure between the straight edge and the nut. It should give you a better feel for the actual end play.
Next question was there any kind of gasket, metal or paper, between the flywheel and the crankshaft?
We'll get to the clutch throw in a while. Got to get that end play figured out first.
And I don't know anyone in Kentucky, except you now.
_________________
My father's 1970 Beetle-
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=603879
The 1964...Diamond in the rough
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=612776
My 1958 Morocco Bug-
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=611483 |
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Gringo Loco Volador
Samba Member
Joined: September 17, 2014
Posts: 18
Location: USA
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| Posted: Sun Sep 21, 2014 5:05 pm Post subject: |
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| I do not recall any gasket between the flywheel and the crankshaft. |
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flyboy161
Samba Member
Joined: December 26, 2009
Posts: 2091
Location: Perry, GA
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Gringo Loco Volador
Samba Member
Joined: September 17, 2014
Posts: 18
Location: USA
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| Posted: Sun Sep 21, 2014 5:21 pm Post subject: |
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| I do not recall an o-ring, but I did not looks specifically for one. I put the flywheel back on when I was finished today, but I could take it back off tomorrow. Is there suppose to be a gasket or o-ring? |
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flyboy161
Samba Member
Joined: December 26, 2009
Posts: 2091
Location: Perry, GA
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Gringo Loco Volador
Samba Member
Joined: September 17, 2014
Posts: 18
Location: USA
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| Posted: Sun Sep 21, 2014 5:46 pm Post subject: |
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| I dont recall that o-ring, but it could be there. I will have to take it off again tomorrow and check it if we really need to know right now. Would it effect the end play if it was missing? |
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dalotheman
Samba Member
Joined: May 16, 2007
Posts: 12
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| Posted: Mon Sep 22, 2014 9:31 am Post subject: End Play Question |
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If your swapping out the flywheel do you have to re-check end play?
I would think it wouldn't change with a new flywheel. I understand what end play is but I can't get my head around shimming the flywheel changes end play. |
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57BLITZ
Samba Member
Joined: June 12, 2012
Posts: 2385
Location: DEEK - U.S.A.
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| Posted: Mon Sep 22, 2014 10:21 am Post subject: |
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| Gringo Loco Volador wrote: |
| I dont recall that o-ring, but it could be there. I will have to take it off again tomorrow and check it if we really need to know right now. Would it effect the end play if it was missing? |
The "O" ring has no effect on end-play. If you have an "O" ring flywheel, the "O" ring will be inside the flywheel and smashed into the groove . . . you will need to pick it out to replace it.
If your flywheel has no groove, but rather a step, it is the type that uses a gasket, and you should get two identical gaskets . . . use one while setting the end-play and a new one to use when you have the main seal installed and you are ready to torque the flywheel on.
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Jesucristo es mi Señor y Salvador! |
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