epoxy or DTM primer

jason · Posted: Thu Sep 18, 2014 5:33 pm Post subject: epoxy or DTM primer

I tried to buy a quart of epoxy primer from one of the only paint supply shops close to me today. They said that they don't carry epoxy primer anymore. They said it is outdated and I should use a DTM primer for bare metal. It is urethane based. Anyone have any knowledge of this. I also wondered if I buy one without isocyanates as opposed to one that does, is isocyanate listed in one of the ingredients. Basically how do I know if it contains isocyanates or not? DTM is direct to metal.

skills@eurocarsplus · Posted: Thu Sep 18, 2014 6:09 pm Post subject:

what brand? DuPont/sikkins etc make a epoxy that it DTM. odd that they would not carry it...
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esde · Posted: Thu Sep 18, 2014 6:40 pm Post subject:

I use PPG DPLF epoxy
http://www.custom-aerosol.com/pdf/ppg-dplf-epoxy-primer-product-sheet.pdf\
It is epoxy and direct to metal. You have to top it with a urethane surfacing primer within a few days time, or plan on sanding the epoxy (sucks!) to get some tooth for the next coat to bite. I have found it to be tough as nails, and I use it as a base for everything.

jason · Posted: Thu Sep 18, 2014 9:57 pm Post subject:

It was their own brand That is why I didn't buy it. Seemed like they were pushing it because their name was on it.

Bobnotch · Posted: Fri Sep 19, 2014 9:29 am Post subject:

jason · Posted: Sat Sep 20, 2014 2:43 pm Post subject:

I went to another paint store further away. I talked to them and they said not to use epoxy on bare metal also. They said etch primer then whatever I want after that. They said DTM is for spot repairs. The epoxy they had contained isocyanates. Does the ppg primer have isocyanates? I want to be able to spray it with a respirator, I dont have a fresh air mask.

67 Sunroof · Posted: Sat Sep 20, 2014 10:16 pm Post subject:

Yeah I've spoken to a few body guys locally and they have all told me to use an etching primer instead. It gives the paint something to bite onto.
Both guys turn out GOOD work and are both very respected. In fact, the one guy I struck up a barter deal with. He's gonna paint my bug for FREE!! I am doing bodywork for him and learning a lot as I go along. He's logging the hours I've been putting in. For me, it's a win win situation. The knowledge is invaluable to me.

The problem I am having is this:
I have an estimate to bead blast my entire bug inside and out for $1100. Once it is done I MUST do something within a week or rust will set in. I'm not sure whether to epoxy prime it or etching prime it. I've read the etching primer is acidic?

Northof49 · Posted: Sun Sep 21, 2014 8:27 am Post subject:

If I were you I would read and compare the spec sheets on the products and decide from there. Not all epoxy primers have the same characteristics. I would pay attention to how it needs to be prepared to top coat, surface prep and coating thickness.
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1958 Karmann Ghia owner

Bobnotch · Posted: Sun Sep 21, 2014 9:53 am Post subject:

67 Sunroof · Posted: Wed Sep 24, 2014 7:04 pm Post subject:

Is the PPG DPLF compatible with House of Kolors paint and is it "friendly" with most body fillers? How much would I need to spray the whole body (inside and out), doors, hood, decklid, and all fenders inside and out? A gallon?
I have no clue Shocked

marklaken · Posted: Thu Sep 25, 2014 9:26 am Post subject:

67 Sunroof · Posted: Thu Sep 25, 2014 11:02 am Post subject:

Mark,
Thanks for your answer and I understand there are more than one way to skin a cat! Haha
I will have everything back from soda blasting in 2 weeks and the painter is going to wipe it down with acetone and spray everything with etching primer.
It will be undercover in a garage but I just want to buy some time before surface rust sets in and start working on the little dings around the car.
I told him to let me know what we need material wise and I would buy it....he said don't worry about it...!?
I've got about 20 hours "barter" time with the guy and he said he is ready to do it in the next 2-3 weeks. Just getting nervous about the sequence of events. There is a rusted area I know I have to take care of but don't know if we work on it AFTER the sprays the primer or what....
He mentioned the etching primer had the zinc phosphate (green?) that is great for keeping rust from forming.....just saying what he said as I have no idea about paint/bodywork stuff.. His work is freaking awesome, so I'll just trust his judgement. He paints race cars and runs a 7sec dragster also paints a lot of junior dragsters and they are awesome.
I'm really excited!!

marklaken · Posted: Thu Sep 25, 2014 2:56 pm Post subject:

I'm fairly certain you will want to put a 2k primer on top of the etch primer right away for protection from the elements AND for proper adhesion. Check out your tech sheets for whatever etch primer you are using - it will say what to do next and what time frame you need to do it before you are require to reprime or sand the etch primer.

Also just to make sure - there are 2 different cars being discussed here - '67 sunroof's beetle and Jason's beetle?

I didn't mention it, but also just to make sure, etch primers are only sprayed on bare metal - don't use etch primer on top of painted or primered substrates - it is an acid based product meant to go on bare metal only.

I have an old chevy truck that was sanded down to bare metal, then etch primed and then primed with high build black primer for that ratrod look - when I sanded it down, the metal was very surface rusted (It was a lot of work but I am glad I sanded it down to see whet was under the primer)
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Wish List:
1967 Wesfalia SO-42 Parts Needed: Kitchenette, Cot Poles

'65 rear left beetle fender

15" Bus Wheels in fair condition

Mark Laken
Fort Collins, CO

67 Sunroof · Posted: Thu Sep 25, 2014 9:55 pm Post subject:

Correct, 2 different cars. I apologize if i took the thread and ran with it but they were similar issues and didn't wanna create another new thread Smile

67 Sunroof · Posted: Sat Oct 04, 2014 6:51 pm Post subject:

marklaken · Posted: Mon Oct 06, 2014 10:37 am Post subject:

Etch primer is only used to promote adhesion. It is necessary to use an etch primer (or the right kind of epoxy primer) on bare metal so that the next layer of primer can stick to the sheet metal.

In my truck's case, both the etch primer and the black primer that was sprayed onto the etch primer didn't prevent corrosion - it was stored outside in hot/dry Denver. I don't know what the etch and black primer were (I got the car with them already applied). I would guess that the etch primer was standard etching primer (it was yellow) and that the black primer was either rattle can primer or more likely a lacquer primer.
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Wish List:
1967 Wesfalia SO-42 Parts Needed: Kitchenette, Cot Poles

'65 rear left beetle fender

15" Bus Wheels in fair condition

Mark Laken
Fort Collins, CO

Kafer_Mike · Posted: Wed Oct 08, 2014 11:08 am Post subject:

New here on forum, but I've been super impressed with SPI 2k epoxy primer -- http://www.southernpolyurethanes.com/index.htm. I've shot a couple quarts of the white and black. Great product, excellent support and a helpful user community. You can contact Barry, the President of SPI by phone or text 7 days a week even after normal business hours for your technical questions.

p.s. - Barry recommends laying down their epoxy primer directly to metal before filler to promote a chemical bond; not mechanical. Lays down super flat -- and it's easy to sand.
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Kafer_Mike
Build 'em fast...or let 'em sit.


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