Westfalia or Vanagon on MaxJax hoist? Yup!

[denwood]

Hoist hopefully here tomorrow, along with the more reliable epoxy anchor inserts. Should have a Westfalia in the air soon

Pics are self explanatory. I added some bracing over the last few days as time permitted. (Thanks Bruce aka fleetmaintenance for the framing advice and sketches!) Spray foam is all done Just have to add two 2x6s below each stringer to transfer load to the concrete footing/floor, and we're ready for phase 2 of the renovation. Some great ideas on this forum! Drywall on the ceiling will need to be done. I'll be doing a modified French cleat wall and cabinets, floor epoxy and hoist install next.

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Cheers,
Dennis Wood
The Grape

[MarkWard]

Dennis, what is the clearance between the beam and the concrete now? My trusses run the opposite direction of yours. Also, how much square height do you end up with now. In other words the box a vanagon would fit in when lifted?
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[denwood]

The bottom of the beam is 10' 2" from the floor. The garage now has a six foot x 16 ft ceiling effective "coffer" at 10"2. If centered on the hoist I have a full 10'2" lift for the Westfalia. I also measured my neighbors double cab dieael truck with 8 foot box, and would get the full 10'2" with that as well. I modeled it all in Visio before the project and ended up with 2" more than I had predicted with scale drawings. I can post those up if you're interested.

A few hoist options were ruled out when I realized their column extension tubes would have to go through the ceiling as it slopes down to the 8 ft walls. The drawings in Visio really help with a quick analysis of what will/won't fit.
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Cheers,
Dennis Wood
The Grape

[MarkWard]

Dennis, I have not measured how high my vanagon is lifted with a conventional BenPack type 12' foot overhead lift. With the max hoist, assuming you can get the top of the van within an 2 inches of the beam. Where about does that place the center of the wheel? In other words, can you walk underneath the van if you are 6' tall? Your project has really got me thinking again. Expanding my garage is not going to add value to my home. I'd have to do a lot of repairs to justify an addition. Some of the heavy fabricating I do, would be much easier on a home lift vs working on the floor. I don't have the same access to my best friends shop since he recently moved. He downsized, but now owns vs renting. Thanks again.
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[denwood]

You're definitely not walking under the Maxjax..most pics I've seen have guys sitting on a shop stool underneath.

The max lift height on the hoist is 48". My van is 81 inches high. So at the max lift height, assuming you could lift right from 0"..(you can't without using blocks), the maximum the van would be is at 10' 9" It's pretty much the perfect application for the van in my garage. The centre of the wheel should be right around 48-50" at max effective lift. For a 10ft garage, any other lift for a vanagon would be wasted capacity/cost. The MaxJax is about $2000 delivered, and can be quickly unbolted/stowed if required. It also has a single mode/tower operation where only one side of the lift is used. Because each side is hydraulic and independent, you can also set width where ever you like.

The hoist is in town, but I won't have it delivered until Monday. I'll post pics of the Westy hoisted up in this thread once it's installed, and take a few measurements as well.

Here's the typical work/lift mode using a stool.

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Cheers,
Dennis Wood
The Grape

[denwood]

Drywall in 2 weeks...behold the chaos of the shop in need of a monstrous clean. The pile in the middle is what the hoist looks like delivered. Their shipping system for this hoist is excellent:

Bad news...the floor is too thin at 3 1/2 inches. Good news is that there is a lot of rebar in it.

After reading a bit at the garagejournal, I found this reference for Mohawk lifts, and parsed out the retrofit slab notes for their 7000lbs asymmetric lift. From here: http://www.mohawklifts.com/consumer/library/Slab_Req-Reco_2-2010.pdf

Taking it back a notch for the smaller lift, I'll be pouring a 3'x12' reinforced slab, 12" thick now to secure the lift based on the above information. I'll run a conduit though so I'll be able to run the MaxJax power unit on the side by running one hydraulic hose underneath the slab.
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Cheers,
Dennis Wood
The Grape

[costal_cat]

Love what you are going here.. I cant wait to see it finished... I also would like to here your thoughts once you have the lift set up and using it. I have seen this one in ads but looking to hear how it works with a Westy on it ....
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87 Syncro Westy
TDI Overland Parts engine conversion

[denwood]

I'll update for sure as we progress. If the slab had been ok, I would have had the Westfalia in the air already. As of right now, I suspect we're four weeks to do the new slab and allow it to set before using the lift.
_________________
Cheers,
Dennis Wood
The Grape

[denwood]

So, apparently getting my van on the hoist is put forward a few weeks..ha.

I rented a Hilte diamond saw and Bosch demolition hammer from Home Depot. I'd consider these essential to doing this job...still a three to four hour task with the right tools. Here's a few notes/pics for reference.

A dust mask and ear protection are necessary:

My shop vac (make sure you use a filter bag inside the vac!) duct taped to the Hilte dust port made for near zero dust. The concrete dust would likely damage the vac motor, hence the optional bag installed..this is normally used for drywall dust. The diamond saw will not cut rebar very well, so I set the depth to a few inches only for my cuts. I used my 4" angle grinder to cut mesh reinforcing as I progressed along with the hammer.

The concrete at one end is very thin!

Ready to to go, with ABS pipe in position. I'll use the ABS "conduit" to pass the hydraulic line from the left side under the slab. The hydraulic pump/reservoir unit will be mounted on the right column to keep lines out of the way.

_________________
Cheers,
Dennis Wood
The Grape

[insyncro]

I pour pads under the floor first for hoists.
I see only a few inches of concrete that has been cut.
With the right conditions, your hoist may crack or worse such a thin concrete floor.
I would at least be using a spec stone under it, tamped and lifted 3"s at a time to make sure that the compaction is enough to help support all of the localized weight.

Since you know where the posts will be sitting, I would pour bases and than a floor over them.

D

[denwood]

Dylan, the new "slab" will be 48" x 144" x 14" thick, and reinforced with a 6"x 8" pattern of 1/2 inch rebar. As per the spec, it will be keyed in 6" under the existing reinforced slab.

I used the A7 lift retrofit spec. for a few reasons:

1. It is a 72" lift vs the MaxJax at 48". The lever forces would likely be up to 50% more than the MaxJax.
2. The A7 is asymmetric, with max load 7000lbs, so would need to withstand much more forward loading than the Maxjax.

I spent some time last weekend with a family friend, also a quality assurance (civil) engineer. Bob has over 40 yrs experience, currently doing QA on most of the bridge restructures here in Northern Ontario. I ran a few numbers past him.

The slab I'm about to pour (144"x48"x14") requires 1.9 cubic yards of concrete, with a weight of ~6960 lbs. I've cut a 36" wide slot, but the slab will actually be 48" wide with the key-in. The soil underneath is undisturbed, and consists of fist sized boulders and compact earth...it's a beast to dig up. Bob is telling me 1500lbs/square foot would be a typical number to calculate support for this soil type. With a slab, just sitting there (no key in to existing), it would require upwards of 3480 lbs (half the slab weight) to tilt the slab. With the MaxJax columns in the middle of the slab, (assuming a simple lever) it would require an imbalance of 994lbs, 7ft away, to tilt the slab. In other words, if I balanced my Westy on the hoist, then hung 1000lbs from on one bumper, I'd just tip my slab...assuming zero key under existing. Given the 6" key in, and 4x4 mesh reinforcing at the edges that I'll be tying into, I'd have to estimate several thousand pounds to break out the reinforced edge, maybe more. I'd be pretty confident saying that it would take over 2000lbs, 7ft away to tilt the slab with key in. This slab seriously exceeds the footing requirements for MaxJax (remember is only 48" lift), so very high safety margin.

It took me 3-4 hours to break up the slab, so thin as it is, it's very strong. A 4x4 mesh was installed in the existing, and I've left it at the edges to tie into. I measured at the thinnest point, so average is closer to 3".

Feel free to check my math...just did some simple calcs
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Cheers,
Dennis Wood
The Grape

[insyncro]

Fiber mesh can be added when the concrete is made to add an addition 1000lbs test to the material.
The mesh doesn't like to polish to a mirror finish but is stronger than not using it.
The supplier of the crete should be able to deliver a 4000lbs material vs a 3000lbs material for just a few dollars a yard more.
Worth checking into.

Enjoy the lift.

Yes, I agree and use a Snap On rolling and adjustable chair to move around under my scissor lift with the same height as your lift.
Standing is nice but sitting and rolling is devine

The garage looks great ENJOY!

[denwood]

Well, another $120 for rebar (cut to spec) and we're ready for 2 yards of 4000 psi concrete tomorrow morning. The rebar guys suggesting doing with a 12"x12" grid using larger rebar than spec'd (5/8"), 2" off the bottom, and doing a second layer of 1/2" rebar a few inches off the surface to stop cracking. The top layer of rebar is set up to avoid any contact when dropping the epoxy anchors in later.

The second layer of 1/2" rebar (closer to the top) is wire tied into the existing slab mesh, essentially hanging from it. For reference, 2 yards of 4000 psi will come to $360 CAD, delivered. There's a minimum charge for smaller quantities and 13% HST tax included in that price.

The cement brick you see under the 5/8" rebar is there to make sure it stands off the ground 2 1/2 inches. The yellow tape around the ABS joints is just there as extra insurance against leaks as I did not wet test after bonding them with ABS cement. The pipe is 3", so plenty large enough to pass the hydraulic hose through.

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Cheers,
Dennis Wood
The Grape

[Jake de Villiers]

What about the rebar pegs into the old slab as shown in that drawing you posted?

You kinda need to keep the two slabs on the same level, no?
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[dobryan]

[Jake de Villiers]

[denwood]

Jake, no worries. I consulted with a quality assurance engineer on site, as well as Danmar (the manufacturer of the MaxJax). Danmar actually only requires a 3'x3' footing, 12" thick. They don't require a contiguous slab, but suggested it was preferable. The spec I'm using (look a few posts up) is from Mohawk for the A7, a 7000lb full height asymetric lift. Remember the MaxJax has only 48" lift...and is a symmetric lift. Full discussion a few posts back. The rebar I used is well over spec as well. 5/8" at the bottom layer...and I've added a 1/2" top web based on the rebar company engineers suggestion to avoid cracking on the 14" slab. The top web rebar is tied into the existing 4x4 mesh.

The 6" key under the existing slab, combined with 1500 lbs/square foot soil support is all that is required. You dowel, or key...the A7 spec does not call for both.

Assuming the retrofit slab I just poured (which used 7000 lbs of concrete!) was just sitting on the ground by itself, it would take a 1000lb weight imbalance, hanging 7 ft out (essentially from the bumper of a hoisted vehicle) just to tilt the slab. Add in the resistance by keying under existing + 1500 lbs/square foot soil loading, as well as tying the new rebar into the existing mesh, it would likely take far more of an imbalance, before observing any fore aft movement. The safety margin in my slab is well beyond what the manufacturer (MaxJax) has spec'd. You'd be fair in calling it overkill.

I'd highly recommend a concrete agitator for this job. The concrete mix behaves like watery syrup when agitated, so ensures rebar etc. is fully enveloped, and prevents any voids/air pockets. Finishing was done with a 4ft skree (made from 1"x3" aluminum tube) and a 4"x14" steel trowel. Very happy with the outcome.

_________________
Cheers,
Dennis Wood
The Grape

[dobryan]

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Dave O
'87 Westy w/ 2002 Subaru EJ25 and Peloquin TBD

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[fleet_maintenance]

Another step closer! Looks great.

[Phishman068]

NICE!

You could have mixed and poured all that by hand..... : )
I poured a little more then that for the pad I built for my blacksmithing power hammer (18'' thick!!!!).
It sounds like you got a good deal on just having a guy with a truck full of mixed concrete come and pour it. That saved 8 hours of work and lifting 4000lbs 3 times by hand (Into the Truck, Out of the Truck, Into the mixer).
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