Softening the suspension

slalombuggy · Posted: Thu Sep 25, 2014 2:43 pm Post subject:

In the front you can also remove on set of leaves entirely and replace it with a through rod or Formula Vee style swaybar (which I did on mine) and it will ride wonderfully. In the rear, depending on what suspension style you have you can run longer torsion bars and the corresponding spring plates for a softer ride. I hate running low tire pressures in my buggy tires because they seem to walk all over the place. especially in corners or changing lanes at speed. It's rather run higher pressures and bounce a bit I always run 24 front 28-30 rear.

brad

LeeVW · Samba Member Joined: June 14, 2006 Posts: 1016

My buggy (built on a '72 pan) has a full set of torsion leaves in the front beam and a set of 24mm thick torsion bars at the back (stock is 22mm). The front torsion leaves are original, so they are pretty clapped out and provide a nice ride. The reason for the larger diameter bars in the back is I add a lot of weight to the buggy for camping, and the original stock bars couldn't handle it.

My shocks are Fox shocks which have been valved for the way I use the buggy. Those shocks are one of the best investments I made for the car.

In this picture, you can see how the camping gear, various provisions, 10 gallons of water, and 5 gallons of extra gas manage to compress the back end even with 24mm torsion bars.

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.

Lee

jsup · Posted: Thu Sep 25, 2014 5:49 pm Post subject:

Hey guys, here's what I'm thinking.

I'll take out 3 smaller ones out of the top and bottom cut them short, spot weld onto the remaining torsion springs where the set screws fit. Left, right, and center.

I'm going to keep the KYBs for the back, and change to cheepo shocks in front.

I ordered a new beam with two inch drop adjusters from SO-CAL Imports.

Does that sound like a reasonable plan?

jsup · Posted: Thu Sep 25, 2014 5:58 pm Post subject:

Dale M. · Posted: Thu Sep 25, 2014 6:36 pm Post subject:

Or you can keep stock or add after market sway bar, remove upper leaves altogether and just use "through rod" to keep trailing arms pulled in...

Dale
_________________
“Fear The Government That Wants To Take Your Guns" - Thomas Jefferson.

"Kellison Sand Piper Roadster" For Street & Show.
"Joe Pody Sandrover" Buggy with 2180 for Autocross (Sold)
============================================================
All suggestions and advice are purely my own opinion. You are free to ignore them if you wish ...

jsup · Posted: Thu Sep 25, 2014 6:56 pm Post subject:

I like making stuff. I'm drawing up plans right now for something that looks like the Formula Vee stuff. It's pretty simple. Just need some bar stock, a mill, lathe, and drill press. Got enough friends with that stuff.

I just need to talk to an engineer and see what kind of steel to use. I'm thinking 1074 or 1075 steel but need to verify it.

I'll have to see in the morning, sometimes things look better in the fog of tiredness.

I'm not 100% sure what I'm going to do just yet, I appreciate all the input. I already ordered the adjustable beam, so I have some options.

Jerry39218 · Posted: Fri Sep 26, 2014 4:00 am Post subject:

jsup · Posted: Fri Sep 26, 2014 5:46 am Post subject:

jsup · Posted: Fri Sep 26, 2014 5:56 am Post subject:

Is there anywhere I can get the weight of the front end, and measurement in NM or FT LbS of the torsion springs?

This way I can figure out what the diameter should be if I choose to make something up.

It would be a WAGS situation (to a point) but as a friend says "it's all numbers" I just don't know if I should cut the torque in 1/2, 1/3, 5/8 to make it right.

jspbtown · Samba Member Joined: January 27, 2004 Posts: 5157

I believe NAPA carries oil filled shocks for the VW

Dale M. · Posted: Fri Sep 26, 2014 8:09 am Post subject:

EMPI has standard oil filled shocks... OR at least they used to...

http://vwcatalog.empius.com/vwcatalog/2014/164.html

Dale
_________________
“Fear The Government That Wants To Take Your Guns" - Thomas Jefferson.

"Kellison Sand Piper Roadster" For Street & Show.
"Joe Pody Sandrover" Buggy with 2180 for Autocross (Sold)
============================================================
All suggestions and advice are purely my own opinion. You are free to ignore them if you wish ...

DWP · Posted: Fri Sep 26, 2014 8:27 am Post subject:

I got my sway bar here.
http://www.sracing.com/Store/FST_Stuff/FST_Stuff.htm

DWP

slalombuggy · Posted: Fri Sep 26, 2014 9:37 am Post subject:

I made my own swaybar for the front of my buggy. I simply used a piece of 3/4" square stock and filed down the ends to fit in the arms as they are just a bit smaller than 3/4". In the center I cut out the top spring holder and tube, (about 2" out of the center) and pushed the holder out in a press and welded the tube back into the beam. On my bar I also radius the edges a bit to take off the square corners where it doesn't go into the arms.

brad

jsup · Posted: Fri Sep 26, 2014 5:06 pm Post subject:

slalombuggy · Posted: Fri Sep 26, 2014 6:58 pm Post subject:

DONT leave a 3 inch block in the center. That bar needs to float inside the tube or else you will have NO suspension travel. The set screws going into the bar on both arms will keep them located. Just make sure you press them in all the way before you make your points for the grub screws.

jsup · Posted: Fri Sep 26, 2014 7:07 pm Post subject:

slalombuggy · Posted: Fri Sep 26, 2014 11:02 pm Post subject:

It won't float if it is held in the middle. The bar will twist and eventually break from repeated flexing. You cannot have anything holding it in the middle AT ALL. I can't emphisize this enough. The bar in your drawing will not work as a swaybar. All it will do is hold the suspension solid untill it fatigues and breaks Look at Formula Vee bars they do not have anything in the middle, that is how you want to build yours.

brad

Dale M. · Posted: Sat Sep 27, 2014 5:02 am Post subject:

The whole ides of anti-sway bar is to transfer energy from one side of car to other.... To have wheel on one side to follow the action of wheel on other side...

Silly as it sounds, a anti-sway bar on rear will effect how front wheels stay planted, and front sway bar effects how rear wheels stay planted....

Anchoring bar in middle is same as leaving fill spring pack in tube, only stiffer, it is 100% opposite what you re trying to do....

Suggest you read up on chassis/suspension dynamics before you move forward, there is a science to all this...

Some reading may be..."Chassis Engineering" by Herb Adams, HP Books...

Dale
_________________
“Fear The Government That Wants To Take Your Guns" - Thomas Jefferson.

"Kellison Sand Piper Roadster" For Street & Show.
"Joe Pody Sandrover" Buggy with 2180 for Autocross (Sold)
============================================================
All suggestions and advice are purely my own opinion. You are free to ignore them if you wish ...

Letterman7 · Posted: Sat Sep 27, 2014 6:23 am Post subject:

Following the progression of this topic.. and have a stupid question: if you take the grub screw out from one of the tubes in the middle, top or bottom, would that also allow the spring stack to "float" just as if you replaced it with a swaybar?

jsup · Posted: Sat Sep 27, 2014 6:24 am Post subject:

OK thanks for all the responses. I ordered an adjustable beam, and I'll take out a couple leaves and tack weld them back then use the adjusters.

Has anyone used these for the rear?
http://vwparts.aircooled.net/Rear-Torsion-Bar-Adjuster-Stock-Torsion-Housings-p/6596.htm

they are pricey, not in the budget right now, but look interesting.


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