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Jerry39218
Samba Member
Joined: June 23, 2014
Posts: 182
Location: Brandon, MS
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 Posted: Wed Sep 24, 2014 1:28 pm Post subject: rear brakes... |
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I know I know lol...
I've searched and found some similarities....
Rear passenger drum is sticking. Started doing it the return trip home the other day.
Pedal was also up to my knees.
After sitting a couple days it released.
Removed the wheel...checked the pads...springs...etc etc...brake lines seem to be fine.
I cannot find what is causing this "bind"...
Any ideas?
Oh.. appears to be 64 type. No leaks. |
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LeeVW
Samba Member
Joined: June 14, 2006
Posts: 1016
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| Posted: Wed Sep 24, 2014 1:35 pm Post subject: |
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Brake lines can look fine on the outside and still break down inside. That would be my first guess. Next time it locks up, try loosening the brake line from the wheel cylinder. If it lets go, that's the problem.
Lee |
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jrailer
Samba Member
Joined: August 26, 2014
Posts: 150
Location: utah
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| Posted: Wed Sep 24, 2014 2:10 pm Post subject: |
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| how is your pedal freeplay |
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Jerry39218
Samba Member
Joined: June 23, 2014
Posts: 182
Location: Brandon, MS
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| Posted: Wed Sep 24, 2014 4:43 pm Post subject: |
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no pedal freeplay at this point.
got the gf to lightly press the pedal so I could watch the cylinder..and blew out the seal.... think I have it back.
funny thing tho.. the spare spring kit I orders for a 64 doesn't match up to what's on there. shoes are 30mm.
pics coming shortly.
I tried to press the shoes back in by hand to get the drum back on, didn't work. release the bleed valve... no go either.
Can't find my C clamps..yet... but I had thought it shouldn't take that much pressure to press the cylinder back in... perhaps it does.
Regardless, the cylinder isn't releasing...I even put a stronger upper return spring on and it still wouldn't release.. |
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Jerry39218
Samba Member
Joined: June 23, 2014
Posts: 182
Location: Brandon, MS
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| Posted: Wed Sep 24, 2014 4:47 pm Post subject: |
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another thing I noticed was a fair amount of GREASE in the drum... that can't be good.
Here are the pics... any ideas what year? I'm still thinking 64 or earlier, but not really sure.
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Jerry39218
Samba Member
Joined: June 23, 2014
Posts: 182
Location: Brandon, MS
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| Posted: Wed Sep 24, 2014 5:06 pm Post subject: |
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"overhaul is needed for sticky cylinders"
haha...
guess I should have read a bit closer and stopped 2nd guessing myself.
My setup looks exactly like what's in the haynes manual. But all the spare parts I've looked up have that setup listed for an IRS.
Since it appears the problem is a bad cylinder, will someone please confirm which cylinder I need to get? 64? Just want to make sure before I order this...  |
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weasel_ugs
Samba Member
Joined: March 16, 2012
Posts: 721
Location: Prescott Valley,Az.
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| Posted: Wed Sep 24, 2014 9:19 pm Post subject: |
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Is that rear shoe supposed to be on the front brakes? I dont see a slot for the parking brake piece(cant remember name)
Also make sure shoes are resting on the flat pads on the backing plate and havent moved passed them, that will make it hard to push them back in.
Someone put the wrong shoes on one side of my front making the shoes rest on the backing plate past the flats making that one side too tight and stick. I have no idea how it even worked. |
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Jerry39218
Samba Member
Joined: June 23, 2014
Posts: 182
Location: Brandon, MS
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| Posted: Thu Sep 25, 2014 4:06 am Post subject: |
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| weasel_ugs wrote: |
Is that rear shoe supposed to be on the front brakes? I dont see a slot for the parking brake piece(cant remember name)
Also make sure shoes are resting on the flat pads on the backing plate and havent moved passed them, that will make it hard to push them back in.
Someone put the wrong shoes on one side of my front making the shoes rest on the backing plate past the flats making that one side too tight and stick. I have no idea how it even worked. |
Yeah I just rechecked that, they are resting correctly.
yeah, in one pic I have the cross bar and everything in there, just in that one pic I had removed everything to get a clear pic of the cylinder.
I'm still not sure which model cylinder to get... gonna stick with my theory of 64 and see if I can find one local as I have a show Saturday. |
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Jerry39218
Samba Member
Joined: June 23, 2014
Posts: 182
Location: Brandon, MS
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| Posted: Thu Sep 25, 2014 4:14 am Post subject: |
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now I'm thinking it looks more like a 67.
does anyone know the difference in wheel cylinders between the years?
Where's volkswagnut? I'm sure he knows  |
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VOLKSWAGNUT
Fastest VW Belt Changer
Joined: October 14, 2007
Posts: 11056
Location: Flippin' a Belt........ .... Off-n-On ... NC USA
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| Posted: Thu Sep 25, 2014 6:33 am Post subject: |
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| Jerry39218 wrote: |
Where's volkswagnut? I'm sure he knows |
On a break....
It has a shrouded bearing cover... thats 65-67 (and 68 up with a different offset.)
Hopefully it has the right backing plates with the weep hole that matches the bearing cap.
65-67 adjusters and shoes are angled at the shoe foot areas.
Earlier shoes and adjusters are straight.
You need to use the correct adjuster and cylinder style with the correct shoes.
Look this over. http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=583865
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_________________
aka Ken {o\!/o}
Its your vehicle- stop askin' for approval-do what YOU like for cryin' out loud
Better to roll em' how you want and wear em' out-than lettin' em' rot out
Its about the going not the showing
Rebuilt to drive not decorate
WANTED: Local Eatin' Joints, Triple D for TheSamba contributions here http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=570510
Search "VOLKSWAGNUT" on YouTube since you cant watch a "certain" BELT change video round here
Usually and often edited
Last edited by VOLKSWAGNUT on Thu Sep 25, 2014 7:06 am; edited 1 time in total |
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Jerry39218
Samba Member
Joined: June 23, 2014
Posts: 182
Location: Brandon, MS
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| Posted: Thu Sep 25, 2014 6:48 am Post subject: |
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| So you're saying I have a 65-67? |
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VOLKSWAGNUT
Fastest VW Belt Changer
Joined: October 14, 2007
Posts: 11056
Location: Flippin' a Belt........ .... Off-n-On ... NC USA
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| Posted: Thu Sep 25, 2014 7:00 am Post subject: |
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| Jerry39218 wrote: |
| So you're saying I have a 65-67? |
I am saying it has the 65-67 bearing cap...
I cant tell what backing plate, shoes or adjusters it has.
Multiple combinations can be used...
Look on the inside of the backing plate, if its 65-67 it will have a weep hole just below the axle tube.
Look at the adjusters see if they are angled and have raised shoe boss's
Read the link I provided for more ID information... and pick up those books you have... 
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_________________
aka Ken {o\!/o}
Its your vehicle- stop askin' for approval-do what YOU like for cryin' out loud
Better to roll em' how you want and wear em' out-than lettin' em' rot out
Its about the going not the showing
Rebuilt to drive not decorate
WANTED: Local Eatin' Joints, Triple D for TheSamba contributions here http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=570510
Search "VOLKSWAGNUT" on YouTube since you cant watch a "certain" BELT change video round here
Usually and often edited |
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Jerry39218
Samba Member
Joined: June 23, 2014
Posts: 182
Location: Brandon, MS
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| Posted: Thu Sep 25, 2014 7:23 am Post subject: |
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Sorry...was driving.
Very informative link. Thanks again...figured you had the 411 |
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Jerry39218
Samba Member
Joined: June 23, 2014
Posts: 182
Location: Brandon, MS
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| Posted: Thu Sep 25, 2014 7:26 am Post subject: |
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Why would I have a fair amount of grease collected in the drum?
I recall from my old 68 it had the same problem... but my 73 did not.
Seems axle grease is coming out the bearing area. |
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VOLKSWAGNUT
Fastest VW Belt Changer
Joined: October 14, 2007
Posts: 11056
Location: Flippin' a Belt........ .... Off-n-On ... NC USA
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| Posted: Thu Sep 25, 2014 7:30 am Post subject: |
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I still have a rotary phone
I've been down the same road of mix matched parts on cars... way too many times.
So I know ya pain... daily..
Put the phone down while driving...
68 is a swing axle so the bearing is wet.. 73 is CV joint so sealed bearing..
Again......... if the WEEP hole isnt there in the backing plate or is clogged. .. and the seal leaks...seeps.....WEEPS...... it will collect in the drum.
Example.. 66 cap with weep hole... 64 backing plate without weep hole.. the oil will spill over and distribute inside the drum..
The differences..
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=592052&highlight=slinger
| VOLKSWAGNUT wrote: |
Here.. you can see the different parts..
| VOLKSWAGNUT wrote: |
"oil deflector"
or convert to the 65-67 style internal deflector and shrouded bearing cap and drill the weep hole in the backing plate.
IMO... 65-67 is a better design and option.
| glutamodo wrote: |
and yes, if you drill a hole in the backing plate, you can use the 65 style rear bearing cap.
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_________________
aka Ken {o\!/o}
Its your vehicle- stop askin' for approval-do what YOU like for cryin' out loud
Better to roll em' how you want and wear em' out-than lettin' em' rot out
Its about the going not the showing
Rebuilt to drive not decorate
WANTED: Local Eatin' Joints, Triple D for TheSamba contributions here http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=570510
Search "VOLKSWAGNUT" on YouTube since you cant watch a "certain" BELT change video round here
Usually and often edited |
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Jerry39218
Samba Member
Joined: June 23, 2014
Posts: 182
Location: Brandon, MS
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| Posted: Thu Sep 25, 2014 10:27 am Post subject: |
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Hey can you repost the BOTTOM pic from above that's not cropped?
I wanna see the top part of the backing plate and cylinder please
Thanks |
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VOLKSWAGNUT
Fastest VW Belt Changer
Joined: October 14, 2007
Posts: 11056
Location: Flippin' a Belt........ .... Off-n-On ... NC USA
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| Posted: Thu Sep 25, 2014 10:51 am Post subject: |
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Not my pic.. .. is what it is.. Ill look for another for you.
Edit..
Oh and it "should" be in one of your books....
_________________
aka Ken {o\!/o}
Its your vehicle- stop askin' for approval-do what YOU like for cryin' out loud
Better to roll em' how you want and wear em' out-than lettin' em' rot out
Its about the going not the showing
Rebuilt to drive not decorate
WANTED: Local Eatin' Joints, Triple D for TheSamba contributions here http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=570510
Search "VOLKSWAGNUT" on YouTube since you cant watch a "certain" BELT change video round here
Usually and often edited |
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Jerry39218
Samba Member
Joined: June 23, 2014
Posts: 182
Location: Brandon, MS
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| Posted: Thu Sep 25, 2014 2:56 pm Post subject: |
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| Didn't notice it in the Haynes section 9. |
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EVfun
Samba Member
Joined: April 01, 2012
Posts: 5481
Location: Seattle
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| Posted: Thu Sep 25, 2014 2:58 pm Post subject: |
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This picture also shows the difference between the 1958-1964 brakes and the 1965 and newer brakes. In addition to the angles slots, the slots in the wheel cylinder and adjusters are wider starting in 1965, as they no longer locate the ends of the brake shoes. If you look you can see that the older backing plate has a single shoe rest on each side, just outboard of the hold down spring. The 1965 and newer has 3 shoe rests for each shoe, the one outboard of hold down spring, one near the adjuster, and the one near the wheel cylinder (not shown.)
When you pull the pads it will be easy to see what brakes you should have on your buggy. I've seen some real mixed up systems but I recommend you rebuild your brakes into a factory configuration. For rear brakes that would be either the 1958-1964 system, the 1965-1967 system, or the 1968 and newer system.
Also, from the original pictures it appears that the axle seals are leaking. I would strongly recommend replacing the seal, o-rings and gasket.
I run the 1958-1964 system without the slingers (14) as until recently no new replacements where available. It looks like you have the 1965-1967 system, but it could be a strange mix of parts.
_________________
| Wildthings wrote: |
| As a general rule, cheap parts are the most expensive parts you can buy. |
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Jerry39218
Samba Member
Joined: June 23, 2014
Posts: 182
Location: Brandon, MS
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| Posted: Thu Sep 25, 2014 4:08 pm Post subject: |
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More pics coming.
It appears to be a 65. However I had to best guess on picking up the cylinder and the new one looks like the one mounted, except the ends on the mounted one are larger. The new one is for a 69. The other cylinders did not look like the one mounted. |
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