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jspbtown
Samba Member
Joined: January 27, 2004
Posts: 5156
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 Posted: Thu Sep 25, 2014 10:02 am Post subject: Value for a set of heads |
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I have a set of SCS (Small Car Specialties) heads that have been opened up for larger cylinders. The valve look like stainless and there are no cracks visable. They look great. I think they may have been ported as well.
I am selling them and have no idea as to what the value is. Scanning through the ads don't help much.
Any suggestions? |
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Manfred58sc
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Joined: October 05, 2009
Posts: 3382
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| Posted: Thu Sep 25, 2014 10:58 am Post subject: |
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Without documentation...$300 for the set at best. good luck w/ your sale
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jspbtown
Samba Member
Joined: January 27, 2004
Posts: 5156
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| Posted: Thu Sep 25, 2014 11:34 am Post subject: |
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Thanks for the input.
What type of documentation? And how would it impact value? |
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gt1953
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Joined: May 08, 2002
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Location: White Mountains Arizona
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| Posted: Thu Sep 25, 2014 4:43 pm Post subject: |
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Size of the valves helps, CC of the heads, opened up for what etc.
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raygreenwood
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Joined: November 24, 2008
Posts: 21512
Location: Oklahoma City
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| Posted: Fri Sep 26, 2014 3:41 am Post subject: |
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Really....there are a lot of questions that should be asked if they are selling these as rebuilt. It should all be in the documentation if the seller kept it.
More important than size of valves are...what brand, what angles, new guides or not, new springs or not, what springs, new keepers or not, crack tested or not.
If he does not know those items....whether its been ported, opened up or unshrouded makes little useful difference. Its just a core head that has been run. In my book unless they are some special or well known casting....they are just used cores. About $70-80 each. Ray |
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jspbtown
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Joined: January 27, 2004
Posts: 5156
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| Posted: Fri Sep 26, 2014 6:39 am Post subject: |
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Thanks for the replies guys. I appreciate it.
I don't know the size of the valves...but I will measure. I do know that when compared to a stock head they seem significantly larger.
The diameter of the opening is 97.83mm according to my cheap digital calipers.
I am not selling them as rebuilt per se. They came with a bunch of engine parts. They appear to maybe have been run breifly. The valves are perfectly shiney with no pitting. There is no carbon build up in the heads.
How can I tell what brand valves and what angles? How do I tell if they are new gyuides? The springs are dual springs but are thyey marked for a brand? |
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jspbtown
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Joined: January 27, 2004
Posts: 5156
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| Posted: Sun Oct 05, 2014 1:39 pm Post subject: |
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Ok...I took a good look at them.
Valves are 40mm & 35mm.
Guides appear to be new.
No cracks between the valves or spark plugs.
No buildup in the intake or exhaust ports. They are smooth so I think they have had a mild port job.
Dual springs. No marks on the retainers.
Value? |
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raygreenwood
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Joined: November 24, 2008
Posts: 21512
Location: Oklahoma City
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| Posted: Sun Oct 05, 2014 2:39 pm Post subject: |
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| jspbtown wrote: |
Ok...I took a good look at them.
Valves are 40mm & 35mm.
Guides appear to be new.
No cracks between the valves or spark plugs.
No buildup in the intake or exhaust ports. They are smooth so I think they have had a mild port job.
Dual springs. No marks on the retainers.
Value? |
Whose castings are they built on? Part #s? Manufacturers marks?
If you know SCS built them....just call and ask whose parts were used in them.
Have they been used? How many miles?
Pictures?
See you are asking questions no one can answer because there are literally thousands of options.
Basically....if they are clean and largely un-run.....but you dont know if seats are recent, have not removed any valves to look for manufacturers marks up near the tip of the stem...which is where Manley, TRW and ATE and others mark theirs.....have not checked guide rock or tolerance to see if its even set up properly or if guides are in spec....have not done a solvent test to see if the seats seal....have not pulled a valve to see what kind of angle(s) were cut on the valves and seats......have no idea if the dual springs are set up for what coil bind or what lift range for what range of cam.....have not checked cc's to see if they are even equal..........other things as well......
But not knowing anything its just a collection of parts on a casting. For all you know they are Chinese valves.
As just a collection of unkown parts....I stand by my original. They are just cores with potential. Find out whose casting....look the price of them up if they are still available...add $30-40 to that price and thats about what they are worth...if the casting is pristine.....until you have better information.
Q: what did you pay for them?
Ray |
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vwracerdave
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Joined: November 11, 2004
Posts: 15303
Location: Deep in the 405
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| Posted: Sun Oct 05, 2014 5:54 pm Post subject: |
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My general rule of thumb is the most I will pay for a used part is 1/2 of what the new part sells for.
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Dave
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Joined: July 11, 2002
Posts: 2693
Location: The Forest Moon of Endor, in the Redwoods
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| Posted: Sun Oct 05, 2014 7:17 pm Post subject: |
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It's going to be tough getting a hold of Small Car Specialties- they have been out of business for decades now.
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modok
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Joined: October 30, 2009
Posts: 26781
Location: Colorado Springs
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| Posted: Sun Oct 05, 2014 7:34 pm Post subject: |
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Like carburetors heads can be ready to run, or not. Lots of folks think they are but they aren't, and sometimes the opposite too, but that's the fair way to do it.
Ready to run they should fetch 400 at least, not sure 250. I would not sell them for less than that. They aren't losing value! |
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jspbtown
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Joined: January 27, 2004
Posts: 5156
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| Posted: Sun Oct 05, 2014 9:00 pm Post subject: |
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I think I would classify these as "ready to run".
All the studs are perfect..no rust or corrosion. I think they were run for a VERY short time (ie: test time) and that's it.
They are stamped SCS1320. Other marks on the castings are here:
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/classifieds/detail.php?id=1672559
So lets assume ready to run....$400 range? |
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raygreenwood
Samba Member
Joined: November 24, 2008
Posts: 21512
Location: Oklahoma City
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| Posted: Sun Oct 05, 2014 10:39 pm Post subject: |
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| jspbtown wrote: |
I think I would classify these as "ready to run".
All the studs are perfect..no rust or corrosion. I think they were run for a VERY short time (ie: test time) and that's it.
They are stamped SCS1320. Other marks on the castings are here:
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/classifieds/detail.php?id=1672559
So lets assume ready to run....$400 range? |
Uh....maybe its just the picture....but those look like a set of well used dirty castings that someone did a quicky valve job on. Still has old o-ring seals stuck on them if my eyes are not lying. Just saying.
Again.....find out whose and what casting...price them and add some parts cost. No shortage of whats there. Ray |
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jspbtown
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Joined: January 27, 2004
Posts: 5156
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| Posted: Mon Oct 06, 2014 7:29 am Post subject: |
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Yes..its just the picture. They are definitely not "well used dirty castings".
They do still have the pushrod tube seals on them as I have not popped them off. If that increases the value then I certainly will.  |
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raygreenwood
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Joined: November 24, 2008
Posts: 21512
Location: Oklahoma City
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| Posted: Mon Oct 06, 2014 8:17 am Post subject: |
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| jspbtown wrote: |
Yes..its just the picture. They are definitely not "well used dirty castings".
They do still have the pushrod tube seals on them as I have not popped them off. If that increases the value then I certainly will. |
Im sorry...I made my point poorly.
Those valves look brand new and unused...right?.....so if the head were properly cleaned and checked for a valve job, it would usually be at minimum. ..aluminum hot tanked and/or bead blasted.
And....and this is why I was wondering if its just the picture....but it appears to have carbon in the chambers...or grease....and spotless valves. It would not have spotless valves if it has carbon in the, chambers......nor would it have carbon, grease. ..and above all....pushrod tube seals handing on it...if it had been properly cleaned and bead blasted for a rebuild.
Just saying....the picture (or maybe just the quality of the picture)....does nothing to suggest more value than just above a core set of heads.
From the post of the original seller....old school...had the heads for decades.....I would suspect...personally....that these are a set of heads that, had been opened up for a project long, ago, run in some form.....and then without any further work being done...had a quicky set of valves lapped into them to increase the value for sale. Just my take on it. Ray |
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jspbtown
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Posts: 5156
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| Posted: Mon Oct 06, 2014 8:44 am Post subject: |
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I appreciate your comments Ray.
I am the seller. I got them in a pile of parts that were in a Avenger kit car. The parts pile had some good stuff in it (Weber IDF carbs, FK65 cam, pistons which seem to have a coating on the skirts, full flow case, etc) but were not well stored. Everything was a mess (ie: dirty, spider webs, etc).
I did a quick clean up of the heads with some Simple Green and a rag. As I previously said I don't think these are heads that have never been run, but I don't think they have any miles on them either. The pistons that came with the group had barely any carbon on them. The exhaust studs are like brand new.
When I look into the intake ports I can see shiney bronze ( I assume its bronze) intake guides. The valve stems are perfectly clean. There is zero carbon build-up in the intake or exhaust ports (I did clean them out with the Simple Green so there was likely some mild residue).
So I am in partial agreement with you. I believe these were done by SCS (they are stamped) and assembled onto the motor. The motor was run, but somethign was wrong that made them dis-assemble the motor. I think it was abandoned at that point in time and put out in a field.
So I wonder if there is a description between "brand new & never run" heads and "cores" that would be accurate?? |
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raygreenwood
Samba Member
Joined: November 24, 2008
Posts: 21512
Location: Oklahoma City
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| Posted: Mon Oct 06, 2014 10:20 am Post subject: |
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| jspbtown wrote: |
I appreciate your comments Ray.
I am the seller. I got them in a pile of parts that were in a Avenger kit car. The parts pile had some good stuff in it (Weber IDF carbs, FK65 cam, pistons which seem to have a coating on the skirts, full flow case, etc) but were not well stored. Everything was a mess (ie: dirty, spider webs, etc).
I did a quick clean up of the heads with some Simple Green and a rag. As I previously said I don't think these are heads that have never been run, but I don't think they have any miles on them either. The pistons that came with the group had barely any carbon on them. The exhaust studs are like brand new.
When I look into the intake ports I can see shiney bronze ( I assume its bronze) intake guides. The valve stems are perfectly clean. There is zero carbon build-up in the intake or exhaust ports (I did clean them out with the Simple Green so there was likely some mild residue).
So I am in partial agreement with you. I believe these were done by SCS (they are stamped) and assembled onto the motor. The motor was run, but somethign was wrong that made them dis-assemble the motor. I think it was abandoned at that point in time and put out in a field.
So I wonder if there is a description between "brand new & never run" heads and "cores" that would be accurate?? |
Ok...much better info.
Im really not trying to be argumentative. I think you are doing your best to try to get a realistic top dollar price to sell these heads. Its just difficult without knowing a bit more.
Used heads are hard to buy (or sell) sight unseen...if you are trying to get best/top value for them. Unless certain things have been done like crack testing...even with a load of nice hardware in them.....its hard to know if they have been abused....have cracks that will make them junk etc.
I think if everything were perfect...and you could prove that...$350+ could easily be gotten for them.
If you got them for virtually nil....I would suggest a few things that may only take an hour or two of your time to help you get top dollar.
1. Take them apart and keep each valve in a numbered order to the port it came from. Same with the springs and keepers.
2. Clean them up spotless with solvent. In this way you can take pictures in the ports and between the valve seats in the combustion chamber and around spark plug holes, and of the spring pockets and rocker boxes. (pictures are virtually free)...in this way potential buyers can see what the manufacturer marks may be or the casting characteristics....and can get a handle on the original mfg for you. They can also get an idea if there are no cracks that are visible.
3. grab a little machinist dye and check the valve fit on the seats...and take pictures of it...also showing a better than stock multi-angle seat grind if it has one...adds value.
4. If you have a valve spring compressor and a dial caliper you can compress a spring to coil bind and measure and snap a picture. That would let those who are interested in the over sized valves and twin springs know what level of cam lift can work with these heads out of the box.
Then remove a spring and move the valve by hand to half of that max lift that you just discovered...and if you have a dial indicator...measure the rock in the guide. Snap a picture. That will tell anyone what condition the valve guides are in.
5. Take a picture of the cylinder seat and a depth measurement with your trusty caliper. This tells potential buyers how much this thing has been flycut and how well its been worked on and maybe how many times its been around the block.
6. If you have a little bit of plexiglass and a syringe...CC a combustion chamber. Potential buyers will want to know if its going to have to be opened up to get a usable compression ratio (and the casting information is critical to know that because some heads just don't have the meat to do that)...or if its close enough.
With just a bit of fact finding.......maybe 10 pictures.....if I were looking for an uncracked, moderate performance head that could run right out of the box and work with X lift cam....and you have gone through the time to show what it really has.....I am the type of person who is willing to pay for what I can be reasonably sure of. You could get $400+ for a pair of lightly used heads with information like that.
Ray |
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