2110 vs type 4 cost;advantages

freizusein · Posted: Fri Sep 26, 2014 8:58 pm Post subject: 2110 vs type 4 cost;advantages

I understand it takes money to build a good motor. My quandary is it more to build a type 4 than a 2110 cc? I am looking at several kits and suppliers. Three have caught my attention. For the type one I am looking at the scat volksracer kit, a kit from kustom warehouse with graphite forged piston( does that really serve any purpose?) And a longblock from eBay for the type 4. I want to build my next motor I don't expect to just bolt everything together and have it work out. I am aware that Raby had beautiful type 4 setups. Does he sell kits to build? My other questions are what is the longevity of a type4 and 2110. I know 2110 less issues when properly built than other motor s that are stroked. Would an aluminum case negate the advantage of a type 4? Is there differences in how long they last vs magnesium? How long does a type 4 engine last? How long would a 2110 with all forged components last? ANY one who built one these know how much did it cost? Thanks in advance. This is going in my fastback. P.s is a IRS trans up to handling the power increase in these engines?

Jake Raby · Posted: Fri Sep 26, 2014 9:39 pm Post subject:

I had kits years ago... I discontinued them.

Back in 2013 I sold my retail parts division to LN Engineering and they brought back some of the kits.

All we offer here are complete engines, and engine development.
_________________
Jake Raby
Raby Engine Development
www.rabyenginedevelopment.com
"I've never given anyone Hell, I just told them the truth and they thought it was Hell"

freizusein · Posted: Sat Sep 27, 2014 11:59 am Post subject:

Thanks for info on the kits. I think I will take a closer look at your complete engines. I will take a look at their kits.

Mike Fisher · Posted: Sat Sep 27, 2014 12:38 pm Post subject:

If you want to build it yourself you won't learn anything buying one from Raby etc. Build a 2110 yourself with cast components & How to Rebuild Your Volkswagen Air-Cooled Engine by Tom Wilson. It will last you many years. You want to spend a small fortune on your first VW engine! Wink

_________________
https://imgur.com/user/FisherSquareback/posts
69 FI/AT square Daily Driver
66 sunroof,67,70,71,71,71AT,72,72AT,73 Parts
two 57 oval ragtops sold
'68 Karmann Ghia sold

Society is like stew. If you don't keep it stirred up you end up with a lot of scum on the top! - Russ_Wolfe/Edward Abbey

freizusein · Posted: Sat Sep 27, 2014 7:20 pm Post subject:

I will take that advice. I plan on building the2110 I picked up an extra job to pay for it. Should be fun I been reading the Tom Wilson book. Can't believe how expensive the type 4 can be Shocked

. I could build three 2110 for that. Nor saying it isn't worth it. Thanks

Bobnotch

freizusein · Posted: Sun Sep 28, 2014 6:07 am Post subject:

Where did you buy your case? sounds like a good product. Thanks for writing. Lots of good tips.please keep them coming. Very Happy

Bobnotch · Posted: Sun Sep 28, 2014 11:03 am Post subject:

Mine started out as an Autolinea case (made in Brazil). It was then machined to clean up it's faults (it was an early production case).
_________________
Bob 65 Notch S with Sunroof
71 Notch ...aka Krunchy; build pics here;
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=249390 -been busy working
64 T-34 Ghia...aka Wolfie, under construction... http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=412120

Clatter · Posted: Sun Sep 28, 2014 10:41 pm Post subject:

Oh, man, not the old type 1 vs. type 4 debate...

Not _again_.... Rolling Eyes

_Any_ motor is going to be expensive if you build it to the level that Jake does!

Try this type 4 build on for size - here is a motor that will go a couple hundred thousand miles, and don't be surprised if its as fast as a mild 2110.

http://shoptalkforums.com/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=145440
_________________
Bus Motor Build

What’s That Noise?!?

freizusein · Posted: Tue Sep 30, 2014 4:52 pm Post subject:

I am starting to think building a type 4 isnt a bad idea. however with the cases from available from scat it seems like you can build a decent type 1. I havent found to many cheap things about the type 4. But I guess you get what you pay for. The Scat Killer case seems impressive and reasonably priced along with their super high performance aluminum case. They also offer the dual bypass as 41 case in their kits. Anyone have any experience with these??? Question

So far what I am liking about these is they are not 2300 hundred bucks. Thoughts would be appreciated. Very Happy

I realize not everyone is a scat fan. I have better luck with them than empi. That being said I am very much a novice.

Multi69s · Posted: Tue Sep 30, 2014 8:18 pm Post subject:

It all depends on the type off power you are looking for. I have a 2110 with a Engle 110 cam in my DD bug, and a 2L type 4 with a scat C25 in my Squareback. Power wise, they are completely separate engine. The 2110 is a much snappier engine, while the type 4 is a torquer. However, on long freeway runs on hot days, the 2110 begins to heat up, even though I have a larger external oil cooler on it. However, the T4 just shrugs of the heat and keeps on going with out an external cooler. I live in the san Joaquin valley, so every road trip requires me to go over mountain passes of at least 5000'. So the bug stays home and the T4 Squareback loves to fly up the mountain passes, You should see the looks I get when I pass by the newer cars.
_________________
69 road Bug 2110
73 Squareback - 2L, T4, Automatic W/ AC
Gone, but many fond memories 69 Baja Bug 2010 - 5 Rib Bus Transaxle
Gone but not forgotten 72 Baja Bug 2010
My builds
T4 into Squareback http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=458944&highlight=
Auto Trans Rebuild http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=516066&highlight=
AC in Squareback https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=...highlight=

Mike Fisher · Posted: Wed Oct 01, 2014 7:07 am Post subject:

I would buy an aluminum case since the magnesium cases are dirty looking. A cast Scat kit built 2007cc would run cooler with plenty of power on tap!
_________________
https://imgur.com/user/FisherSquareback/posts
69 FI/AT square Daily Driver
66 sunroof,67,70,71,71,71AT,72,72AT,73 Parts
two 57 oval ragtops sold
'68 Karmann Ghia sold

Society is like stew. If you don't keep it stirred up you end up with a lot of scum on the top! - Russ_Wolfe/Edward Abbey

Clatter · Posted: Wed Oct 01, 2014 7:33 am Post subject:

You really can't compare the two.

First, they built the 25/36HP beetles,
Then that evolved up to 40/50/65HP with the same basic design.

Then,
They decided to start from scratch, and build the best motor they could, without having to adopt any of the old motor's parts.
They took and learned from having built motors for 40-odd years or so, and incorporated it into the new design.
Yes, the type 4 is aluminum, but....
There is a whole big list of things they did that you will never get from the aftermarket.
Like remove-able lifters, or 50% more cooling fins.
The very best race T1 cases will have T4 mains.
The TF-1 is, IIRC, the only case that is cross-bolted,
And none come with the Hoover HVX mods from the factory.

But none will have the length needed to get the crank webbing wide enough to keep down flex and avoid pounded mains.

Oh, lord, here I go again... Rant rant rant.... all for what?

It's really hard to tell someone that a T4 case you might find under a tree, or being given away at a swap, is better than a $$$$ one in a full-page color glossy ad in a magazine.
_________________
Bus Motor Build

What’s That Noise?!?

Jake Raby · Posted: Wed Oct 01, 2014 10:27 am Post subject:

This is a flashback to Y2K!
_________________
Jake Raby
Raby Engine Development
www.rabyenginedevelopment.com
"I've never given anyone Hell, I just told them the truth and they thought it was Hell"

freizusein · Posted: Wed Oct 01, 2014 3:11 pm Post subject:

Thats a good point I had not thought about. From what I am reading I can buy a used type 4 motor that is priced decently and not really have to have the case machined. Just rebuild on the heads. Is that true? Question

I am definetly looking to do something that will last and I can count on. I dont expect it to be perfect but if I can get there I would like to try. Very Happy

And no I do not expect it to be maitenance free.

Brent · Posted: Thu Oct 02, 2014 6:19 am Post subject:

Jake Raby · Posted: Fri Oct 03, 2014 7:35 am Post subject:

"Tribute"
Damn, I have been doing this way too long!
_________________
Jake Raby
Raby Engine Development
www.rabyenginedevelopment.com
"I've never given anyone Hell, I just told them the truth and they thought it was Hell"

freizusein · Posted: Fri Oct 03, 2014 10:12 am Post subject:

Looks Like you will not be the only one building a tribute motor the advantages of the type four blow my mind Shocked

. Been doing a lot of reading. Where does the line between a porsche and vw stop? Laughing

Went to my local car show and asked a vendor if he had porsche and vw posters he said I was first Porsche he had seen in a couple of shows. I found that a little hard to believe.

Clatter · Posted: Fri Oct 03, 2014 11:32 am Post subject:

Multi69s · Posted: Fri Oct 03, 2014 1:59 pm Post subject:

Jake,

What is your Avatar picture? It looks like a boar with a pinion shaft in it's mouth.
_________________
69 road Bug 2110
73 Squareback - 2L, T4, Automatic W/ AC
Gone, but many fond memories 69 Baja Bug 2010 - 5 Rib Bus Transaxle
Gone but not forgotten 72 Baja Bug 2010
My builds
T4 into Squareback http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=458944&highlight=
Auto Trans Rebuild http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=516066&highlight=
AC in Squareback https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=...highlight=


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