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theKbStockpiler
Samba Member
Joined: July 07, 2012
Posts: 2316
Location: Rust Belt
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 Posted: Tue Nov 04, 2014 2:24 pm Post subject: |
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I have used antisieze for tierod sleeves and in five years of driving in NY you will still have to get out the torch come alignment time. Compared to nothing ,antisieze is great but it will lose it's effectiveness to an extent that you might as well not use it. If it's practical ,and it will stay on for a LONG time, use blue loctite. 
_________________
My beetle is not competing with your beetle. I have the yellow beetle in my town. There is a red one, a green one ......
Use all safety devices including a mask.
Last edited by theKbStockpiler on Tue Nov 04, 2014 6:42 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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Da TOW'D
Samba Member
Joined: December 25, 2005
Posts: 1321
Location: Bella Coma Canada
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| Posted: Tue Nov 04, 2014 2:42 pm Post subject: |
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| EverettB wrote: |
| raygreenwood wrote: |
One of the first things I learned!
In high, school.....working on my first VW....my Dad taught me about using anti-seize.
But.....my Mom taught me about cleaning it up.....after I tracked it into the house. |
Damn, that stuff is nasty to clean off hands, I'd hate to be scrubbing it out of carpet. |
it is made up of heavy metals
wear gloves
_________________
'57 type 1 Blackberry
'58 SC Ruf
'62 type 3 Notch
'92 Eurovan Willy DD
and NUTS |
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raygreenwood
Samba Member
Joined: November 24, 2008
Posts: 21520
Location: Oklahoma City
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| Posted: Tue Nov 04, 2014 3:29 pm Post subject: |
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| theKbStockpiler wrote: |
| I have used antisieze for tierod sleeves and in five years of driving in NY you will still have to get out the torch come alignment time. Compared to nothing ,antisieze is great but it will loose it's effectiveness to an extent that you might as well not use it. If it's practical ,and it will stay on for a LONG time, use blue loctite. |
If that is true....then You are using the wrong anti-seize for the metal combination.
I routinely take suspension parts loose after a decade and the anti-seize is fully functional.
Again...dont just go down to the hardware store and ppick up the first bottle that says "anti-seize".
I tested over fifty TOTALLY DIFFERENT formulations of anti-seize gor a company I worked for.
Outside of "me too" brands....there is an AWESOME reason why there are different formulations.
Anti-seize compounds are called anti-seize compounds....and rarely called lubricants by their manufacturers....because they are not designed primarily as lubricants. They are designed to place soft etals between similar metals to prevent galling.
AND....if you are in an area with heavy salt....which sets up chemical and electrolytic corrosion between parts.....AND....you have anti-seize that is made of the wrong metal components for the metals you have it on......YES....you will have this problem.
Read the directions.
There is a reason they make copper based, copper silica based, nickle based, lead based....yes...lead based.....they make it...and a whole range of mixtures.
Most of the nickle based ones are some of the only ones allowed for use in the nuclear industry.
If you used the primarilyt aluminum anti-seize like we were talking about early on...and you are in high salt wet areas.....you can have issues.
If you are using the cheap all around mixed with everything never-seize....you can have problems.
Use a quality copper/silica product....properly applied....and it should have no failures to release for at least a decade. Ray |
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modok
Samba Member
Joined: October 30, 2009
Posts: 26789
Location: Colorado Springs
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| Posted: Tue Nov 04, 2014 6:13 pm Post subject: |
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Liquid wrench brand Chain lube!
Great for lug nuts and suspension hardware.
Actually i used to use it on chains, but then they changed the formula to have some type of clear moly compound instead of the usual grayish stuff. The clear stuff does not work as well on chains and gears.........but seems to work better for lubing hardware  |
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theKbStockpiler
Samba Member
Joined: July 07, 2012
Posts: 2316
Location: Rust Belt
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| Posted: Tue Nov 04, 2014 6:49 pm Post subject: |
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So Permatex Antisieze is not recommended for tierod sleeves?  The only stuff I can get off the self in my town is Antisieze and Torque Master.
_________________
My beetle is not competing with your beetle. I have the yellow beetle in my town. There is a red one, a green one ......
Use all safety devices including a mask. |
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modok
Samba Member
Joined: October 30, 2009
Posts: 26789
Location: Colorado Springs
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| Posted: Tue Nov 04, 2014 7:09 pm Post subject: |
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| If that's what you got then use it. do you have any.... Moly grease, ARP lube, cam shield?? use whatcha got. |
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theKbStockpiler
Samba Member
Joined: July 07, 2012
Posts: 2316
Location: Rust Belt
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| Posted: Tue Nov 04, 2014 7:17 pm Post subject: |
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This is what I keep on hand:
Antisieze
Torque Master
Lithium grease
synthetic grease
Spray Silicon
SillGlide
Graphite
Synthetic brake grease
WD-40
Muscle Grease
Pb Blaster
Red Loctite
Blue Loctite
I have some lucus engine assembly lubricant too. I would say I'm a proponent of chemical products. 
_________________
My beetle is not competing with your beetle. I have the yellow beetle in my town. There is a red one, a green one ......
Use all safety devices including a mask. |
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raygreenwood
Samba Member
Joined: November 24, 2008
Posts: 21520
Location: Oklahoma City
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| Posted: Tue Nov 04, 2014 7:21 pm Post subject: |
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| theKbStockpiler wrote: |
| So Permatex Antisieze is not recommended for tierod sleeves? The only stuff I can get off the self in my town is Antisieze and Torque Master. |
The permatex aluminum (silver looking) is a, great anti-seize for virtually any use....but its really optimized for aluminum.
Think about that for a moment please. As you note....and ask we were talking about...by design the oil in anti-seize goes away pretty quick.
With permatex aluminum based....you are now left with aluminum on steel. Add a, little water and you get galvanic corrosion. Add road salt.....and you get it worse. There is just no way to fully seal suspension parts.....which is why I suspect you had better luck with locktite.
If the threads are really fully sealed or a, long way from water.....it should be no issue using that anti-seize most anywhere.
But on suspension parts.....use a copper based one for no galvanic action.
One of the most popular used to be Felpro C5A. It has been made under C5A by Henkel for quite a while now.
Ask for it....a lot of places sell it. Graknger has it or you can order it from Mcmaster Carr. About a 2 oz tub with brush should last about 10 years. Ray |
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modok
Samba Member
Joined: October 30, 2009
Posts: 26789
Location: Colorado Springs
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| Posted: Tue Nov 04, 2014 8:43 pm Post subject: |
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haven't heard of some of those.........
Only thing with molybdenum disulphide would probably be the synthetic grease, assuming it is like CV grease.
Where's molly?? your collection is not complete!! |
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raygreenwood
Samba Member
Joined: November 24, 2008
Posts: 21520
Location: Oklahoma City
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| Posted: Tue Nov 04, 2014 9:12 pm Post subject: |
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| modok wrote: |
haven't heard of some of those.........
Only thing with molybdenum disulphide would probably be the synthetic grease, assuming it is like CV grease.
Where's molly?? your collection is not complete!! |
The man has Silglide.....thats a pretty good collection!
Muscle grease. ....is that like Ben Gay?
Its amazing thd chemical and lubricants we collect over time.Ray |
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raygreenwood
Samba Member
Joined: November 24, 2008
Posts: 21520
Location: Oklahoma City
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| Posted: Tue Nov 04, 2014 9:13 pm Post subject: |
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| modok wrote: |
haven't heard of some of those.........
Only thing with molybdenum disulphide would probably be the synthetic grease, assuming it is like CV grease.
Where's molly?? your collection is not complete!! |
The man has Silglide.....thats a pretty good collection!
Muscle grease. ....is that like Ben Gay?
Its amazing thd chemical and lubricants we collect over time.Ray |
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coad 
Samba Scapegoat
Joined: September 12, 2002
Posts: 7552
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| Posted: Tue Nov 04, 2014 10:22 pm Post subject: |
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| theKbStockpiler wrote: |
This is what I keep on hand:
Antisieze
Torque Master
Lithium grease
synthetic grease
Spray Silicon
SillGlide
Graphite
Synthetic brake grease
WD-40
Muscle Grease
Pb Blaster
Red Loctite
Blue Loctite
I have some lucus engine assembly lubricant too. I would say I'm a proponent of chemical products. |
Since we're talking about lubricants, what's anyone know about Balistol?
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Ballistol was invented in 1904 in response to a German Army requirement. it was engineered to be usable on all metals, leather and wood and as a wound disinfectant for the treatment of minor cuts and infections. After testing it for one year Ballistol was type classified and fielded by the Wahrmacht and remained in use until 1945. In today’s German Army, the Bundeswehr, Ballistol is used by several Special Forces units, such as the "Kampfschwimmer", a unit similar to the Navy Seals. The name ‘Ballistol’ is a Greco-Latinism. It means ‘Ballistic Oil’.
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http://www.ballistol.com
I've never heard of it, but someone told me that it works better than PB Blaster or anything else they've tried for loosening bolts, and it's fantastic mixed with water in an ultrasonic cleaner. Anyone use it? |
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modok
Samba Member
Joined: October 30, 2009
Posts: 26789
Location: Colorado Springs
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| Posted: Tue Nov 04, 2014 10:34 pm Post subject: |
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all these different compounds...........way cool stuff but still takes a while to figure out what you can actually use it for. The "marketing" always says this or that miracle stuff is good for ALL purposes but mostly is wrong.
IMO
WD-40=slow evaporating parts cleaner solvent
Clear moly chain lube=misc fastener lube
Silicone oil=rubber lube
gear oil=assembly lube
marvel oil=wd40
white crust on your engine case=high temp anti-sieze/laxative
My father had a theory that WD-40 was some type of useless and worthless refining byproduct that they filtered, scented, and put in a spray can, and made a big profit, 100% marketing. It may be arguable because the stuf isn't particularly good at doing any of the things it's supposedly used for.
Same guy later became a PB evangelist.
Which I agree it works better than wd-40(see above, not hard to accomplish), but smells like PEANUTS.....and that gets old quick for me. P>B peanut blaster? probably a byproduct of the peanut oil refining process
I just used up my last can of rocket oil (wd-40 imitator with slightly different scent and even MORe bogus claims on can) Got a case of it for dirt cheep. Smelled more scientific, which was nice.
I think it's 50% placebo, 40% fragrance, anybody can be fooled.
I like the wintergreen scent best myself so I'll vote mix equal parts marvel/acetone/ATF soothing.
But what i don't like about any of em is what does the smoke contain??? Which penetrant is safe to breath the smoke???? I'd buy that one.
You want NICE gear oil try mystic brand. It's got a nice scent, and is red colored, so looks cool. That's what's important!! |
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raygreenwood
Samba Member
Joined: November 24, 2008
Posts: 21520
Location: Oklahoma City
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| Posted: Tue Nov 04, 2014 11:37 pm Post subject: |
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| modok wrote: |
all these different compounds...........way cool stuff but still takes a while to figure out what you can actually use it for. The "marketing" always says this or that miracle stuff is good for ALL purposes but mostly is wrong.
IMO
WD-40=slow evaporating parts cleaner solvent
Clear moly chain lube=misc fastener lube
Silicone oil=rubber lube
gear oil=assembly lube
marvel oil=wd40
white crust on your engine case=high temp anti-sieze/laxative
My father had a theory that WD-40 was some type of useless and worthless refining byproduct that they filtered, scented, and put in a spray can, and made a big profit, 100% marketing. It may be arguable because the stuf isn't particularly good at doing any of the things it's supposedly used for.
Same guy later became a PB evangelist.
Which I agree it works better than wd-40(see above, not hard to accomplish), but smells like PEANUTS.....and that gets old quick for me. P>B peanut blaster? probably a byproduct of the peanut oil refining process
I just used up my last can of rocket oil (wd-40 imitator with slightly different scent and even MORe bogus claims on can) Got a case of it for dirt cheep. Smelled more scientific, which was nice.
I think it's 50% placebo, 40% fragrance, anybody can be fooled.
I like the wintergreen scent best myself so I'll vote mix equal parts marvel/acetone/ATF soothing.
But what i don't like about any of em is what does the smoke contain??? Which penetrant is safe to breath the smoke???? I'd buy that one.
You want NICE gear oil try mystic brand. It's got a nice scent, and is red colored, so looks cool. That's what's important!! |
Yes...wd40 is only good for drying water off of things. Its not bad for slow drilling of precision holes in some aluminums in a dripper bottle.
The mystik products are awesome. Outside of CV grease....I use mystik JT-6 for all high teml grease.
I use superlube lube for allxengkneering plastics and sliding surfaces. Ray |
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mark tucker
Samba Member
Joined: April 08, 2009
Posts: 23937
Location: SHALIMAR ,FLORIDA
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| Posted: Wed Nov 05, 2014 8:54 am Post subject: |
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OK!!! I call bs on ray!!! well not realy bs but ms,his info is spot on as usuall, but..his spelling is off yup I saw atleast 2 words missspelled!!!! OMG I"M in heaven  just messen ray.I just couldent resist for some stupid reason. It's easy to do,Im an exspert at it....
as for the different formulations of antiseezzee I think they should label it better so we dont have to do a pile of reasearch to try to figure out witch we need then try to find that one. |
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raygreenwood
Samba Member
Joined: November 24, 2008
Posts: 21520
Location: Oklahoma City
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| Posted: Wed Nov 05, 2014 9:21 am Post subject: |
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| mark tucker wrote: |
OK!!! I call bs on ray!!! well not realy bs but ms,his info is spot on as usuall, but..his spelling is off yup I saw atleast 2 words missspelled!!!! OMG I"M in heaven just messen ray.I just couldent resist for some stupid reason. It's easy to do,Im an exspert at it....
as for the different formulations of antiseezzee I think they should label it better so we dont have to do a pile of reasearch to try to figure out witch we need then try to find that one. |
....see....im posting a, lot more lately...even though im home less (not homeless....well ...not yet).......because I got a new phone that is modern enough and large enough to allow me to post quick.
But my thumbs are still too big...so my spelling sucks!
I couldnt agree more about the instructions. I was thinking the same thing yesterday. As I mentioned in some other posts......I used anti-seize from day one on my first car. I thought anti-seize was anti-seize.
It wasnt until I worked for a company whose product would literally fail from the stainless fasteners welding themselves together....and before I got there they required anti-seize application as part of the warranty........that I realized that the type, composition and application were critical to anti-seize actually working properly.
Long before I got there, they had selected an anti-seize that worked well and shipped with the product. But every couple of years they would have testing of other anti-seize brands as continuos improvement to see if anything was better. I was part of that testing.
As the fastener sizes increased and the chemicals in the usage environment got nastier etc.....we always looked for something better for our usage. There were even diagrams with pictures of how to properly apply the product......because if you put it on too thin or unevenly....it would fail to prevent galling. If you put it on too thick....it, would alter the torque enough that the parts being, clamped. ...would crush (a combination of plastic composite and aluminum parts).
Because the product we were using had to work in low solution strength acids, caustic soda solutions and solvents.....galvanic action with the different ingredients was an issue.
it did nit affect the stainless fastener.....but it would cause the anti-seize to oxidize its useful metals away too quickly.
Its stipid how little information is in the data sheets for anti-seize compounds. Ray |
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theKbStockpiler
Samba Member
Joined: July 07, 2012
Posts: 2316
Location: Rust Belt
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| Posted: Sat Nov 15, 2014 4:22 pm Post subject: |
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I use this stuff sometimes to relieve aches and pains. It comes out of the nozzle a liquid but then turns into a gel.
I was going to use a copper based antiseize on everything from now on, but thanks to you I will use the aluminum based stuff for aluminum components. Permatex's marketing is that the copper is a high temp antiseize and the regular is good for everything that is not high temp.
_________________
My beetle is not competing with your beetle. I have the yellow beetle in my town. There is a red one, a green one ......
Use all safety devices including a mask. |
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raygreenwood
Samba Member
Joined: November 24, 2008
Posts: 21520
Location: Oklahoma City
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| Posted: Sat Nov 15, 2014 8:47 pm Post subject: |
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| theKbStockpiler wrote: |
I use this stuff sometimes to relieve aches and pains. It comes out of the nozzle a liquid but then turns into a gel.
I was going to use a copper based antiseize on everything from now on, but thanks to you I will use the aluminum based stuff for aluminum components. Permatex's marketing is that the copper is a high temp antiseize and the regular is good for everything that is not high temp. |
I love Permatex!....the funny thing is.....if you look at what Permatex means by high temp.....I think the aluminum stuff is good to something like 600-800f...the copper to like 1200 and thenickle like to 1600+.
For virtually anthing on our suspension....they are all high temp! But they are picky this way...because some of these are certified for nuclear and powerplant work. Ray |
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old DKP driver
Samba Member
Joined: March 30, 2005
Posts: 4145
Location: Los Gatos,Ca.
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| Posted: Sat Nov 15, 2014 11:29 pm Post subject: Anti SLEEEZE |
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OR,.....as George Bush would say : That shit is Nuke--Ler  Yepp, that's how he pronounced the word 
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V.W.owner since 1967 |
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mark tucker
Samba Member
Joined: April 08, 2009
Posts: 23937
Location: SHALIMAR ,FLORIDA
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| Posted: Fri Nov 21, 2014 11:35 am Post subject: |
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yes ray I was messen with ya. I saw this thread again amd wondered.... oh crap hear it comes again......antiseeze...to keep things from seezing.and lock tight for those we dont want coming loose....hmm my front wheel bearings always seem to be loose..but there covered in greezzee so I cant locktight them....I know the fix (it's fixed)but I want to hear your recomdations and why's. so start using your thinking heads(the one abpve your shoulders. well i better clrarify that a little more, the one with ears on it...and 2 eyes.)
so whats the problem?? and what the cure??I fixed it a few years back. |
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